DYNA BEADS for tire balancing

[R90S]

I emailed the warranty question along w/ this text from Metzlers site:

Metzeler:
"Caution: To avoid the danger of air leakage use only weights that are recommended from the motorcycle manufacturer like spoke nipple weights,
lead wire or self-adhesive rim weights.
METZELER does not recommend the use of liquid balancers or liquid balance/sealers.
METZELER does not give warranty for tires into which these have been injected."


My reply from DynaBeads:
"We have talked to the US Metzler Rep, and the use of Dyna Beads will not void your warranty.
Notice your copy specifically says "liquid.."
Dunlop is the only mfg that will void the warranty, but this is a dealer call, and it's simple to deal with.
We advise all our dealers how to deal with this issue."

Robert
Technical Support
robert@innovativebalancing.com

He too notes the wording of liquids as I did in the earlier post.
I'm done beating the sh!t out of this topic.
Your bike... Your rules.
Do what ya want. I'm trying them next set of tires.

Does "Robert" from Innovative Balancing guarantee in writing that he will back up a warranty if the tire manufacturer will not?

Dunlop is the only one who will void the warranty? I looked up the policies of four of them, and the info I saw contradicts that statement. I suggest you ask the tire makers what they will do if you use the beads, not the bead makers and sellers.

Yes, it is up to each owner to decide how to run their own ride. If I were interested in this stuff, I would do the research first. Ask the tire maker, the bike maker, and the bead maker what happens if you use these beads. I wouldn't rely on hearsay from internet experts.

 

[grafikfeat]

I wouldn't rely on hearsay from internet experts.

Which is exactly why I'm ignoring you.
You win the pissing contest.

I'm going for a ride.

>poof<

 

[testinglogin]

I have been corresponding with the technical staff at dynabeads as a result of this thread. They indicated they have a 24-page technical paper, written by a physicist that explains the reason the beads work. I have not seen it yet, but I will share highlights of the info once they send it.

Even if there is some reason that the dynamic balancer test doesn't work, it would be easy to have a test lab document an out-of-balance condition on the motorcycle. Then the beads could be added and it could be documented that the problem was corrected. The test could be done on an airport runway so there would be no question about the surface. If that test was done properly it would remove any doubt about the products effectiveness. If I ran their company and my product worked as advertised, that is the video I would be circulating.

I don't want to revive a thread that got a bit "heated"... but I'm still curious about the beads. Has Innovative Balancing sent that technical paper?

 

[sumran]

I don't want to revive a thread that got a bit "heated"... but I'm still curious about the beads. Has Innovative Balancing sent that technical paper?

I never received the paper. Robert did not know it existed. I'll check email tonight for updates. The most telling thing to me is the lack of test data which should be easy to produce.

 

[ROLLIFAHRER]

This thread reminds me of the heliocentric solar system debate.


Apples to oranges, but I had a vehicle on a C-30 chassis w 19.5" wheels. No ammount of traditional balancing would tame the vibration. I tried a version of beads in a metal ring that fits over the lug bolts. It works. One finger control of the steering wheel. Don't know why, just like I can't figure out exactly how mass creates gravity.

Whether they harm tires or shift during hard braking, causing bad results, are my concerns. Looking forward to emprical info on those issues.

For now bead-free, but getting really tired of the gooey stuff weights leave.

 

[keelerb]

I can't wait to read that paper (and the author's credentials and sampling methodology) either. But then again, I'm "Einstein," so I'm told, so an interest in applied physics would be natural I guess....

 

[keelerb]

Paper available yet?

 

[AntonLargiader]

This thread reminds me of the heliocentric solar system debate.

I wasn't around for that one, but I can just imagine the similarities. For me, the most interesting part of the thread is seeing how some people seem to take it as a personal mission to prevent others from considering the product.

The other part of the thread is just tires, so it's pretty boring.

 

[sumran]

I guess the paper isn't coming. I never heard from them again. It appears that if any testing is going to get done it will be done by an interested party, not the supplier.

Does anyone have an out-of-balance tire and an airport runway we can borrow?

 

[testinglogin]

I guess the paper isn't coming. I never heard from them again. It appears that if any testing is going to get done it will be done by an interested party, not the supplier.

Does anyone have an out-of-balance tire and an airport runway we can borrow?

A well-qualified INDEPENDENT physicists would do, as well.

The fact that they aren't jumping to prove to anyone that their product works speaks volumes, in my opinion. It's not like emailing a document would be any sort of burden. They're probably busy with more marketing hype.

 

[ROLLIFAHRER]

A well-qualified INDEPENDENT physicists would do, as well.

The fact that they aren't jumping to prove to anyone that their product works speaks volumes, in my opinion. It's not like emailing a document would be any sort of burden. They're probably busy with more marketing hype.

This and similar posts speak volumes about the level of disrespect for fellow riders and members. Posts with positive comments are by guys who actually tried them. The derogatory comments about the product and company are theoretical in nature. Scientific papers are historically not the beat-all end-all solutions some believe them to be. Copernicus applied mathematics to astronomy to prove the actual place of the earth in the solar system, but nearly a century later scientists, most famously Galileo, were still being ridiculed and persecuted for advancing that theory. For several hundred years there was abundant anecdotal evidence that the earth was not flat, but seafarers returning from journies well beyond the horizon were derided when they claimed they sailed for days and did not find the edge.

This thead is now about skepticism and zealotry. The former is usually healthy, the latter usually not. I think the zeal to disprove and/or discredit the pro side of this discussion is energy misspent. "Thank you" to the early posters who were willing to share their experiences. "Thank you" to the other side for confirming one of the fatal flaws of human nature.

While I would like to see a scientific paper on the topic, I'm not 100% sure I would be able to follow every argument and therefore unable to determine its validity, and could quite possibly find erroneous cause to discount the conclusion. Maybe that's one reason the beads people aren't willing to jump through that hoop. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure the beads people are aware of their liability should it be proven their product causes harm. Since they, and their insurance carrier, have so much to lose, there appears to be risk assessment evidence that beads are at least safe if not effective. So I would encourage the naysayers to give them a try, or at least give due respect to those who have.

 

[rich]

For me, the most interesting part of the thread is seeing how some people seem to take it as a personal mission to prevent others from considering the product.

Amazing, isn't it?

 

[20774]

For me, the most interesting part of the thread is seeing how some people seem to take it as a personal mission to prevent others from considering the product.

When did anyone PREVENT anyone from considering the product? People are expressing opinions, founded on science or not, based upon their own personal use or not. That's all I've seen... Read and accept what you want. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head.

 

[keelerb]

I do apologize if I said anything that offended anyone. That was not my intent.

I am more than a little dubious of the merits of this product, but I intended only to poke a little gentle fun, not to insult anyone.

I do believe there was a little vitriol going the other way too, but I will assume good will on their part as well.

Ride safe all.

 

[kgadley01]

an independent lab tested the beads. I used to have the Article but can't find it now. they put a wheel W/ tire on a speed balancer and ran it up to 70 mph. it showed the wheel and tire needed 2 oz of weight to be balanced. they then repeated the process using Dyna Beads installed per directions on the package. they spun the wheel & tire again up to 70mph and the machine said they still needed 2 oz of weight. I do my own balanceing and I still use stick on weights. if something works, why mess with it...

 

[MotorradMike]

If the axle is held rigidly(as on a dynamic balancer) then the dyna-beads simply distribute themselves evenly around the inside of the tire. The fact that the balancer still indicated the same with the beads in actually shows they don't affect a balanced tire.

 

[R90S]

an independent lab tested the beads. I used to have the Article but can't find it now.

Here's the summation at the end of the article written by Dave Searle for Motorcyle Consumer News, published Oct. 2006, page 48:

"Taking the bike out on the road, repeating the same stretch of freeway several times at speeds up to 85mph, the beaded tire felt heavier, with a strong sense of gyro stability, but was noticeably less smooth running than when factory balanced, but perhaps just slightly better than with the original weights removed." (no rim weights OR beads installed)
"Our advice: Go for a proper spin balance when you buy tires; it's more effective."

 

[kgadley01]

Here's the summation at the end of the article written by Dave Searle for Motorcyle Consumer News, published Oct. 2006, page 48:

"Taking the bike out on the road, repeating the same stretch of freeway several times at speeds up to 85mph, the beaded tire felt heavier, with a strong sense of gyro stability, but was noticeably less smooth running than when factory balanced, but perhaps just slightly better than with the original weights removed." (no rim weights OR beads installed)
"Our advice: Go for a proper spin balance when you buy tires; it's more effective."

+1

 

[sumran]

Here's the summation at the end of the article written by Dave Searle for Motorcyle Consumer News, published Oct. 2006, page 48:

" the beaded tire felt heavier..."

It takes a more accomplished rider than me to feel a difference of one ounce in a tire. I understand feeling the balance, but feeling the weight would be impressive. I guess a highly tuned race bike and and expert rider may be able to notice the difference.

 

[grafikfeat]

It takes a more accomplished rider than me to feel a difference of one ounce in a tire. I understand feeling the balance, but feeling the weight would be impressive. I guess a highly tuned race bike and and expert rider may be able to notice the difference.

+1... I'm sure there are some things going on that we subconsciously correct.

I have noticed on other boards folks who have tried them like them. More so than ones who've said they felt unsafe and removed them.
I think it's a fairly new concept and we'll see what time tells.
I'll also add that the quality/build of tires has increased dramatically. To the point that sometimes all you need is a little piece of sticky backed weight.

This whole subject is way over thought and it's become a battle of opinions.

Bottom line... Your bike, your rules. Do with it what you want.