Dyna Beads-do they work

[Rudyjo]

Dynabeads

Some swear by them, others say it's all snakeoil. How about BMWON using
two bikes, putting the same set of new tires on them, use dynabeads in one
set and have the other set professionally spin ballanced. Ride them as close
as possible in the same conditions over a period of miles and then write a
report in BMWON magazine with their conclusions.

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

Some swear by them, others say it's all snakeoil. How about BMWON using
two bikes, putting the same set of new tires on them, use dynabeads in one
set and have the other set professionally spin ballanced. Ride them as close
as possible in the same conditions over a period of miles and then write a
report in BMWON magazine with their conclusions.

If Dynabeads ever advertises in the ON, this will never happen. They'd never bite a hand that feeds them.

That's why the MCN article is golden. MCN doesn't have advertisers. It's not beholden to companies in the business. It's the unbiased "Consumer Reports" of motorcycling. That's precisely why a subscription costs so dang much - no advertisers to subsidize the cost - and influence the product evaluations.

Anyone disparaging MCN's coverage and review of Dynabeads has obviously not read the review and subsequent exchange between the editors of MCN and the president of the Dynabead company.

IT IS snake oil - just like deer whistles.

 

[MotorradMike]

IT IS snake oil - just like deer whistles.

DynaBeads bear no similarity to either Deer whistles or snake oil.

The phenomenon is simple physics. I say simple but at the same time, difficult to explain.
Saying that DynaBeads don't work is similar to saying that nuts and bolts don't work.

If your experience is that they haven't helped then examine the application and determine why.

If you did a TBS and the bike ran worse would you conclude that TBS doesn't work or would you look for what went wrong?

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

DynaBeads bear no similarity to either Deer whistles or snake oil.

The phenomenon is simple physics. I say simple but at the same time, difficult to explain.
Saying that DynaBeads don't work is similar to saying that nuts and bolts don't work.

If your experience is that they haven't helped then examine the application and determine why.

If you did a TBS and the bike ran worse would you conclude that TBS doesn't work or would you look for what went wrong?

Tonight when I get home I'm going to scan and share the MCN article with this thread so you Dynabead true believers can see the light.

 

[From MARS]

Tonight when I get home I'm going to scan and share the MCN article with this thread so you Dynabead true believers can see the light.

This reminds me of the old line, "Who you gonna believe? Me, or your lying eyes."

Everytime I'm running along about 80, and my little 650 is just smooth as silk, it gets harder and harder to convince me that they don't work.

YMMV.
Tom

 

[R184]

I've talked a couple of "professional" people on this issue.

At the rally. a rep. for one of the tire companies said the beads don't work. Since they make money off of balancing tires, then his opinion could be viewed as biased. But more important is that they will not honor a warrenty on a tire that has had beads in it. He said the beads "bead-blasted" the inner liner?

I also talked to an automotive tire employee, who had never heard of Dyna-beads. He had no personal or professional interest in Dyna-beads, (His shop doesn't sell or work on M/C tires) and said he saw no reason why they wouldn't work. He then showed me a commerical powder that was used in large commercial truck tires, that when used in conjunction with conventional balancing, acted to help balance the tires.

I have used slime and slime tubes in tubed M/C tires and never had to balance a tire/rim using that goop. It seems to me that a "goop" spinning around would act in a manner similiar to the ceramic beads. In my personal experience the slime when spun around the inside of the tube acted to help balance them, as much as a street legal knobby tire can be balanced. Seemed to work up to the point where I was bouncing around off road, then I couldn't tell & it didn't matter, I just didn't want a flat.

I paid my money, but haven't used my dyna-beads yet. It was a small investment and I'll just wait & see. I guess the only way to settle the issue is a side by side long term road test, by a disinterested third party.

 

[widebmw]

Tonight when I get home I'm going to scan and share the MCN article with this thread so you Dynabead true believers can see the light.

That is copywrighted material.
Will you be getting permission from MCN first ?

 

[tommcgee]

If your experience is that they haven't helped then examine the application and determine why.

And I took them out after 300 miles and the tire was vibration free. That seems pretty easy to explain to me.

 

[MotorradMike]

I've seen text posted by folks that shows some manufacturers will not honour warranty if beads are used.
I'm not prepared to debate that. If it bothers you, then don't use them.

They certainly abrade the inside of the tire slightly. I've used/re-used them in 5 tires now and about half the beads have black rubber stuck to them. Theres always a bit of 'stuff' mixed in with them when I remove them from a worn out tire. I just gently blow that away with the air gun and re-use the beads.
I'm not prepared to debate that either. My belief is that the internal wear is too slight to be an issue.

What I am interested in, is coming up with a simple explanation for the physics. That's why I tend to jump in on these DynaBead threads. There may not be a simple explanation.

Try teaching a kid to ride a bicycle using just a blackboard.
Try explaining 'Counter steering' without the benefit of a self demo.

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

The MCN lambasting of Dynabeads is in the February 2010 issue. I've already circulated my copy of that issue to other riders, so if someone has it available, please scan and post the review.

I did find the issue with the letter to the editor from Richard Krueger, the president of "Innovative Balancing", the manufacturer of Dynabeads, and the rebuttal by MCN editor Dave Searle.

The exchange follows here:

Dyna Beads Responds:
Having read your initial review of our Dyna Beads product in October 2006 and your subsequent response to a reader in the February 2010 issue, I am troubled by your failure to perform a proper analysis of our product and your inaccurate reporting of its performance. As our www.innovativebalancing.com website confirms, and our dealers appreciate, Dyna Beads cannot be tested on an electronic spin balancing machine or any other balancer with a fixed mount. Fixed mount balancers negate the ability of our product to react to imbalance caused by road conditions, the latter being necessary for proper and effective performance of the Dyna Beads. The science behind our product and its benefits and effectiveness are fully explained in our website which also includes testimonials from a small percentage of our many satisfied motorcycle customers.

One of our dealers commented that the motorcycle you tested in 2006 had known vibration problems, and vibrations generated by the motorcycle interfere with the proper operation of our product. The Dyna Beads try to damp the vibrations. Unfortunately, the only solution for this problem is to fix the mechanical issue causing this harmonic vibration. However, for the vast majority of motorcycles, our products provide outstanding results. That is why we request you retest our product and use several different motorcycles. We and our dealers would be happy to help you properly install our product and perform the test.

However, we still believe you failed to properly research our product. You should have spoken with us or to any of our dealers prior to restating your earlier flawed report. Your failure was a disservice not only to us but also to your readers. While we appreciate the initial interest in our product from you and your readers, we see it as necessary to set the record straight about our exceptional product. Accordingly, we invite you, and anyone else interested in learning how our product works, to review our website or to contact us directly.
Robert Krueger, President
Innovative Balancing, LLC

MCN Responds:
Mr. Krueger, we purchased your product just as any other customer would. We didn't ask for a free sample and we are not beholden to you or your company for approval of our evaluation.

The anecdotal evidence offered on your website is not proof of its performance. The Honda 599 used/or the motorcycle portion of the testing does, indeed, vibrate noticeably at certain engine speeds, just as the great majority of motorcycles do. If your product cannot be used on a motorcycle that vibrates, it can be used on very few motorcycles.

While the theory behind your product was intriguing enough that we were willing to test its effectiveness, as doc flash likes to say, "In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is." Your website's explanations of how it works requires that the tire must not be out of round, that the beads will only react to tire imbalance and that they will not redistribute their weight when the tire impacts road irregularities. Of course, in stop and go conditions, they will constantly be falling to the bottom of the tire and then rearranging their positions as speeds increase.

Our testing indicated that the beads are not as effective as fixed rim weights located by a spin balancer. And the amount required for a motorcycle (two ounces) is enough to noticeably affect gyroscopic inertia.

I also tested the beads in the rear wheels of my car for thousands of miles, the recommended four ounces in each and it has a very smooth running engine: The vibration from the rear wheels was constantly changing, occasionally smooth, but most often not. The lack of a consistent balancing action by the beads was obvious and unsatisfying.

Be happy that you are selling a product that relies on anecdotal claims. Rather than retest your product, we challenge you to provide hard evidence from an independent testing lab of your claim that motorcycle tires will last "as much as 100% longer" with Dyna Beads vs. wheel weights. -Dave Searle

-Motorcycle Consumer News, June 2010, pages 4-5

 

[From MARS]

The MCN lambasting of Dynabeads is in the February 2010 issue. I've already circulated my copy of that issue to other riders, so if someone has it available, please scan and post the review.

I did find the issue with the letter to the editor from Richard Krueger, the president of "Innovative Balancing", the manufacturer of Dynabeads, and the rebuttal by MCN editor Dave Searle.

The exchange is attached as a PDF.

I find it kinda interesting when one redicules the "proof" of the other because it is based on anecdotal evidence by quoting anecdotal evidence; They didn't work in his car because he could "feel" the rear tires changing. Huh?! Could it be the road surface changing?

The only real world test I can think of would be to place two identical motorcycles, engines running at exactly the same speed, and weighing exactly the same onto two tread mill type devises with the same "road" surface on the belts; one with beads the other with weights. Let em wear out a few sets of tires. Laser sensors could measure "bounce" at the axles correlated to the position on the belt to compare the effectiveness of each system.

Tom

 

[mrhall]

Years ago I used Balance Plus by PJ1 products, worked great!
The beads have to work, same deal!

Deer Whistles have worked for me too! Will not drive or ride w/out them...period!
Best model I have ever used, very nice unit. www.deerwhistle.com

Snake oil I have never used, but probably works on some people.

 

[jduke]

Deer whistle's are old hat. I have the combined deer whistle and ELEPHANT whistle. In my years of using it I have NEVER even come close to hitting an elephant. So I don't care what people say, I am 100% proof positive they work.

 

[cycleman2]

I've never used the beads so can't comment on wheither they work or not but to my understanding of the laws of physics, the beads should work the same no matter if the tire is spun on a spinning tire balancer or you are going down the highway.

Somebody with some knowledge on centr. force should be able to give a good explanation of what happens to a moveable object inside a spinning tire. I think that's about the only way this one is going to be straightened out.

I've used some of the old slim type stuff back in the 70's on tubed street tires and it seemed to work. Main reason we put that stuff in tires back then was because it was supposed to seal flats. Never had a flat so don't know if it actually worked or not.

 

[kantuckid]

See lengthly www.advrider.com threads complete with comments by various scientist types-its more complicated than you might think-somebody needs to turn it in to "how it works TV".
Hey, I read the testimonials on the deer whistles and kinda makes you think "those particular ones" work.

 

[E_Page]

I had a new PR2 put on the back of my R1150RT about 6000 miles ago. The mechanic asked if it was OK if he used Dyna Beads. I told him go ahead, I'd try them.

The ride doesn't seem to be any more or less smooth than with the professionally and conventionally balanced Z6 I had on there before. This tire seems to be wearing a little better, but that might just as well be the difference between a Z6 and a PR2.

So, in my limited anecdotal experience, I don't know if they are any better than weights, but they seem to be no worse.

 

[MotorradMike]

I've never used the beads so can't comment on wheither they work or not but to my understanding of the laws of physics, the beads should work the same no matter if the tire is spun on a spinning tire balancer or you are going down the highway.

That's one of the big reasons people have trouble understanding the principle. I was with you until I got it figured out.

The difference is this:
The axle on a spin balancer holds the wheel/tire assembly rigidly so there is no vibration due to imbalance. A badly balanced tire spins just as true as a perfectly balanced one on the machine.

It is the motion caused by imbalance that forces the beads to the lighter side of the tire. The bike axle is free to move about in its suspension.

It's not easy to explain, be open minded and think about it.

I'll find the video and post a link that shows the principle best.

 

[MotorradMike]

OK, here's the video.
No, it's not a motorcycle tire and no, they aren't DynaBeads, and no, they are not inside the tire but this video shows the principle in operation very clearly.

Note that the unbalanced assembly bounces the apparatus around the floor as could not happen with a spin balancer.

<object width="500" height="405"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ullnFQD4F1I?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ullnFQD4F1I?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="500" height="405"></embed></object>

 

[tommcgee]

Bad video link. Try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ullnFQD4F1I

 

[MotorradMike]

Thanks Tom.

The link works on my computer but ...