How to Break in Your New Motorcycle Tires

[ncpbmw1953]

DO NOT TRY!! The only goal should be to be SMOOTH!!![/SIZE]

Once you master smooth, you get comfortable, and once you get comfortable, you ride a little faster, and trust your equipment, and guess what, soon the chicken strips will disappear.

If you want to accelerate your learning curve, attend a track day, it is the best place to practice SMOOTH!

I'm certainly not trying to remove chicken strips per se--but they indicate I've never experienced how far the bike can lean. Why do I care? Here's the truth of the matter for me: I don't care to ride any faster thru STREET curves than I already to as I don't see it as safe enough for a 64.5y/o with rather frail bones (I do have a degree of osteoporosis already, probably in part from 33y of diabetes!) and pretty dang scrawny musculature despite pushups and more! Meaning, I'm not going to be able to tolerate a crash as well as a younger stronger and more padded person.

I basically follow the old 'Pace' concept, actually, Pace 1. This being said, it leaves me wondering how I will react at that potential panic moment when it's either panic and stand the bike up thru a curve, or lean it more and take the usually better odds for a slide out. Beyond mentally prepping for it which may in fact be enough (I absolutely know the bike can be leaned over more, i.e., that I have room to lean the bike more).

That's the agenda here--trying to experience this lean angle before I have to if I ever do. The biggest underlying part of the Pace is separating track behavior from street behavior, and I see and endorse this in spades. Many folks don't, but that will never be me as I think it's a form of crazy quite frankly. I do have some doubts that going thru the rigamarole to use the track I have that is about 55 miles from here once will really translate to enough learning to be applicable to street riding, but maybe that's not true. It's interesting you mention this because just 2 days ago I was at the local BMW dealer and was talking to a ~68 y/o who took his XR to this track and promptly crashed it causing modest injury to himself as well as his XR. Another guy was there in the conversation and said 'to be sure to get the helicopter transport insurance'. Well, one thing I'm not real keen on is crashing a '16 RT in order to learn how not to stand up going thru a curve if it that ever presents itself!

So, I'm working on it in my daily riding more now. As a Pace follower I already strive for all of the other stuff, the best lines, delayed turn in and apex, smooth, mega awareness and anticipation, etc. As a result, I have yet to get anywhere near a close call, and I'm hardly crawling thru the twisties. One thing I have not done much because I have never needed to is trail brake at all--once again at the pace I ride it just isn't necessary because typically it's engine braking before I get to the turn in, EXCEPT, once again, I'm therefore not prepared to apply what braking I can in an emergency situation, and I do generally understand the physics involved having read enough about it. So, the goal for now is to always use the front brake to slow coming into a curve just so I'm prepared, plus apply A LITTLE front brake SMOOTHLY while leaned (remember, I'm not super leaned) just for practice sake, which I've really never done. Strips range from about 1/2" to 7/8" wide, and weight is inside the bike's midline towards the curve so is a little less leaned as a result. This allows me to comfortably enter curves 20-25mph over the posted speed (or, how the curve looks to me when there is no posting) then accelerate at the apex. I'm real smooth at this and have been. But, once again, am not sure what the bike can get away with never having leaned to the point of reducing strips down to say 1/4" or less. I have no idea when hard parts start to touch down. In addition to introducing some trail braking my plan is to delay my turn in a fraction more to encourage me to lean the bike more by increments.

After this litany I go back to read your comment and the take home message to me was useful! Just keep working on smooth and a bit faster, later turn in, and the strips will narrow of their own accord.

 

[mlytle]

I'm certainly not trying to remove chicken strips per se--but they indicate I've never experienced how far the bike can lean. Why do I care? Here's the truth of the matter for me: I don't care to ride any faster thru STREET curves than I already to as I don't see it as safe enough for a 64.5y/o with rather frail bones (I do have a degree of osteoporosis already, probably in part from 33y of diabetes!) and pretty dang scrawny musculature despite pushups and more! Meaning, I'm not going to be able to tolerate a crash as well as a younger stronger and more padded person.

I basically follow the old 'Pace' concept, actually, Pace 1. This being said, it leaves me wondering how I will react at that potential panic moment when it's either panic and stand the bike up thru a curve, or lean it more and take the usually better odds for a slide out. Beyond mentally prepping for it which may in fact be enough (I absolutely know the bike can be leaned over more, i.e., that I have room to lean the bike more).

That's the agenda here--trying to experience this lean angle before I have to if I ever do. The biggest underlying part of the Pace is separating track behavior from street behavior, and I see and endorse this in spades. Many folks don't, but that will never be me as I think it's a form of crazy quite frankly. I do have some doubts that going thru the rigamarole to use the track I have that is about 55 miles from here once will really translate to enough learning to be applicable to street riding, but maybe that's not true. It's interesting you mention this because just 2 days ago I was at the local BMW dealer and was talking to a ~68 y/o who took his XR to this track and promptly crashed it causing modest injury to himself as well as his XR. Another guy was there in the conversation and said 'to be sure to get the helicopter transport insurance'. Well, one thing I'm not real keen on is crashing a '16 RT in order to learn how not to stand up going thru a curve if it that ever presents itself!

So, I'm working on it in my daily riding more now. As a Pace follower I already strive for all of the other stuff, the best lines, delayed turn in and apex, smooth, mega awareness and anticipation, etc. As a result, I have yet to get anywhere near a close call, and I'm hardly crawling thru the twisties. One thing I have not done much because I have never needed to is trail brake at all--once again at the pace I ride it just isn't necessary because typically it's engine braking before I get to the turn in, EXCEPT, once again, I'm therefore not prepared to apply what braking I can in an emergency situation, and I do generally understand the physics involved having read enough about it. So, the goal for now is to always use the front brake to slow coming into a curve just so I'm prepared, plus apply A LITTLE front brake SMOOTHLY while leaned (remember, I'm not super leaned) just for practice sake, which I've really never done. Strips range from about 1/2" to 7/8" wide, and weight is inside the bike's midline towards the curve so is a little less leaned as a result. This allows me to comfortably enter curves 20-25mph over the posted speed (or, how the curve looks to me when there is no posting) then accelerate at the apex. I'm real smooth at this and have been. But, once again, am not sure what the bike can get away with never having leaned to the point of reducing strips down to say 1/4" or less. I have no idea when hard parts start to touch down. In addition to introducing some trail braking my plan is to delay my turn in a fraction more to encourage me to lean the bike more by increments.

After this litany I go back to read your comment and the take home message to me was useful! Just keep working on smooth and a bit faster, later turn in, and the strips will narrow of their own accord.

you basically just justified doing at least one track day. everything you listed you are trying to do on the the street would be WAY safer, and more effective, to learn to do in a track school. track schools are not about going fast, they are about learning proper technique and limits in a controlled and undistracted environment. no cars. no cross traffic. no gravel mid turn. no idiots texting. instructors helping you. running same turns over and over again so you can incrementally improve.....at YOUR pace.

ignore the stories at the dealer. that guy crashing was not because of the track day..it was the rider doing something wrong. i suspect it would have happened on the street anyway. and that helicopter transport comment...that was just plain stupid. i bet that guy has never been anywhere near a track day.

and the track is only 55 miles away? no brainer! just GO!

 

[ncpbmw1953]

you basically just justified doing at least one track day. everything you listed you are trying to do on the the street would be WAY safer, and more effective, to learn to do in a track school. track schools are not about going fast, they are about learning proper technique and limits in a controlled and undistracted environment. no cars. no cross traffic. no gravel mid turn. no idiots texting. instructors helping you. running same turns over and over again so you can incrementally improve.....at YOUR pace.

ignore the stories at the dealer. that guy crashing was not because of the track day..it was the rider doing something wrong. i suspect it would have happened on the street anyway. and that helicopter transport comment...that was just plain stupid. i bet that guy has never been anywhere near a track day.

and the track is only 55 miles away? no brainer! just GO!

Points well taken. If I could do a controlled track day w/ some coaching I might consider it. What one has no control over on any track is what others do. You realize the guy who went down on his XR *could* have taken someone else down right? Sure.

What I will do is contact them, Thunder Hill Raceway, and see if I can watch what transpires on a given track day. I'm in no way sold on the idea, but I'm open to looking into it. The guy of course did something wrong, on the track, at track days. It happens and this is why they offer helicopter transport insurance! I'll be able to tell pretty quickly if it's something I want to get involved in once I've witnessed how well it's managed by whomever conducts it.

The guy who mentioned the helicopter I know for a fact has been to the CA Superbike School several times, maybe 5 or 6, and is ultra aggressive rider from Northern Germany, rides a GS and a new R9T and from one of the guys who works at the front desk in the BMW shop who rides with him says you have to be able to have a corner entry speed up to 3x the posted speed to keep up with him. He's on another planet as far as I'm concerned w/ regard to riding, but clearly is an ultra skilled if not crazy rider. That guy, the German, summed up what drives him during that very conversation, paraphrased, "I feel alive when I'm riding like this. Sometimes I wish I could have been born into WWI so I could be in the trenches with everything on the line..." Ouch! Thank God I don't need that to feel alive!

I could be *dead* wrong, but I tend to think mentally I will be leaning hard for the logging truck come well into my lane even w/o experience--I know solidly no can brake hard and straighten up in that scenario! So I've rehearsed it mentally quite a lot. That I know I have ample lean left only adds confidence I have the room to lean. If I rode normally to strips of <=1/8" I'd have no more lean left to exploit. Sometimes there are unintended consequences. While at the shop I saw a wet head RT in for service which had 1/8" of chicken strip, I mean the scuffed area was solid scuff with a very discreet line of demarcation. This tells me on no uncertain terms that rider is always on the edge w/ no place else to go. Never going to go there!

 

[pffog]

you basically just justified doing at least one track day. everything you listed you are trying to do on the the street would be WAY safer, and more effective, to learn to do in a track school. track schools are not about going fast, they are about learning proper technique and limits in a controlled and undistracted environment. no cars. no cross traffic. no gravel mid turn. no idiots texting. instructors helping you. running same turns over and over again so you can incrementally improve.....at YOUR pace.

ignore the stories at the dealer. that guy crashing was not because of the track day..it was the rider doing something wrong. i suspect it would have happened on the street anyway. and that helicopter transport comment...that was just plain stupid. i bet that guy has never been anywhere near a track day.

and the track is only 55 miles away? no brainer! just GO!

What he said, I WISH I had a track 55 miles from me. Closest decent track is 3-1/2 hours and most others are 5-6 hours away. And yes, stretching your comfort boundaries at the track instantly transfers to the street, making you a safer rider even when you are just putting along. Remember when you last went into a corner or saw a corner coming up and you felt that little uneasy feeling, because it was tighter than expected? Well a single track day can give you the reassurance "I got this, a piece of cake!" and keep you from doing something stupid and over braking or looking out of the turn and crashing due to target fixation.

It will be the best $$$ you have spent on skill.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

And yes, stretching your comfort boundaries at the track instantly transfers to the street, making you a safer rider even when you are just putting along.

Points well taken, I'll go there and see what really transpires at this particular track. Thanks!

'Unintended consequences' are real. Let me ask you an honest question: after you attended track days one or more times, did you find yourself riding more aggressively in the street, ever? I see myself as an smart rider in traffic and in canyon twisties but without the practical knowledge of what lean angle equates to maximum before hitting parts. I'd like to feel what that feels like. One of the factors that keeps my riding pace where it is is indeed I don't know what the lean limits of me or the bike really are.

I don't have crash guards on my '16RT. Presumably the feelers on the foot pegs touchdown before the heads do in a hard lean? Is it wise to set the suspension up a notch or two, for example one rider w/ luggage, when playing around w/ harder lean angles? I've always followed the conditions I'm in for that setting but it may make sense to move up the suspension some on a track where I am looking to lean the bike over more, dunno.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

I got a call back from the owner/manager of track days service using several regional tracks and he answered all the questions I could think of. When I talked to him about what my agenda was he was quick to say my corner entry speeds are already way too aggressive for him, for any kind of street riding. His strip widths for street riding are wider than mine. This was a comment I didn't expect to hear--and he's raced for 17y he says.

He explained how they stratify the 3 groups of riders, what basic education is offered if desired, and invited me to come by and watch any event they conduct at Thunder Hill Raceway. When I asked him, how large the groups are he said 30-45 per group, and that track is 3 miles. I described the story of the XR rider who crashed there he responded to say on any given track day they will see from 0 to 5 crashes, and most of these will be in the intermediate and best cohort of riders as they are pushing and have some confidence. He said injuries are usually superficial, but that I'm afraid is greatly related to the age and health of the rider. From viewing several videos riders are usually young and on sport bikes.

I'll ride over for an upcoming event and have a look. I think there's one July 22. It would be real fun to get to ride on a track I get that for sure. The owner impressed upon me how he personally sees track and street as two completely different universes, though did say what is learned there does change your riding habits on the street--still not convinced that the change will be for the better or not, for me personally!

 

[craigjv4]

Doing track days for 6-7 years (gave up the track about 2 years ago) on my dedicated track bike (GSXR 750) had a profound effect on my street riding; I ride much slower on the street now.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

I ride much slower on the street now.

I think you must mean you ride slower on the street compared to how you street road before doing track days. Why exactly is that if you will?

 

[mlytle]

because once you start riding on the track, you realize how dangerous riding on the street is. particularly any misguided effort to use the whole tire. you back down the risk on the street and save it for the far, far safer track environment.

i have been instructing performance and competition driving (cars) for several decades. same phenomena. i am a far more careful and slower street driver now than i was before i started doing track days.

learning the limits and technique on a track does have a profound positive effect on street. smoother, more aware, and far better emergency maneuver ability.

 

[craigjv4]

I think you must mean you ride slower on the street compared to how you street road before doing track days. Why exactly is that if you will?

Yes. I ride slower now on the street than I did before getting on the track.

Why? Good question. I never really thought about it but probably several reasons:

I know what my sport bike was capable of (I'm sure it had the capacity to be pushed more than I could push it) and how quickly bad things can happen. A low side occurs in a blink of an eye (probably quicker). I never high sided though thank goodness; I low sided twice.

My track bike was cheap and fairly easy to fix; used parts are everywhere for GSXR's. I have no interest in wrecking a 25K BMW.

I proved to myself that I could tear up a tire and drag a knee. It took me a couple years to get comfortable with/trust my bike, my tires, and my abilities to drag my knees. But I realized/learned after riding on the track that this was simply too dangerous to do on the street. Maybe looking at riding now from a different perspective?
The track has run-off areas if you go too wide or too hot into a corner, no traffic, no signs, no telephone poles, usually no hard things to hit. The sliding is usually ok; it's the abrupt stopping that hurts.

The tires on my GS are good (actually, I did not like the Anakee III's), but I have slid a few times and realized I was pushing too hard for no reason; it's no sport bike. My track bike suspension was tuned just for me and my weight. MY GS loading varies and the suspension is really good for a range of riding/loading; it's works very well for a wide range of use in my opinion. But it's not tuned for track only of course. I've seen the guy riding the Tail of the Dragon on the Goldwing and I'd say he is far more capable than I'll ever be.

So, put all these things together and my synopsis is... Getting older and wiser!!! LOL

I recommend the track for every rider though. One of the best things I've ever done.

And wow this thread got sidetracked from breaking in tires....

 

[ncpbmw1953]

Yes. I ride slower now on the street than I did before getting on the track.

So, put all these things together and my synopsis is... Getting older and wiser!!! LOL

I recommend the track for every rider though. One of the best things I've ever done.

OK, you've opened yourself up to another question! Why should every rider use the track?

This whole litany came from a visit to the local BMW shop and chit chatting w/ some regulars there and the really good guy who runs the front counter who rides w/ the German guy. We're in Nor Calif and these guys from what I always hear from them ride on the street like they're on the track, and they ride the track as well. They're middle aged riders w/ tons of riding experience. It's interesting to me they haven't come out of many track days or CA Superbike Schools with the same attitude that not only you describe, but yours is the same as the guy who runs Track Days here at our local track.

As mentioned the real reason, at age 64, w/ 3 recent years and 47K miles of riding experience, I would subject myself to the cost and risk of track days is just to get more comfortable with the feeling of leaning the bike over more, that's really all I really care about. Going to local track days I would need to take my RT, and that thanks sounds crazy, so odds are slim I'd do Track Days locally now that I look at this. Ca SB School puts you on an S1000R, but does that translate to riding a 604lb boxer? Sort of, but not really!

After reading several good books on riding from Lee Parks when i resumed riding after a 28y lay off a few years ago I adopted everything I could out of those books that applied to street riding. Positioning, vision, picking lines for later apexing, staying ultra smooth w/ transitions of throttle, engine braking and braking, I employ all the time. Nope, wouldn't be able to do fast laps on a track w/ these because I've never practiced them at track speeds, but do I care? Nope. The only real change for me now is getting used to using the front brake to slow down before entering a curve, just in case I've let myself not be fully prepared for the upcoming turn so I can slow more than engine braking affords, and that's an easy change to add.

It seems I let myself get teased into thinking I don't ride nearly as hard as skilled riders can safely get away with on the street, like those two fellows at the shop AND like the RTW I saw there with almost zero chicken strips. So thanks to all including the proprietor of Pacific Track Time who on no uncertain terms said exactly what you have woken me back up to: riding on the street like you ride on the track is a form of crazy, or at least don't jive w/ my risk tolerance.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

This topic got me thinking to learn a little more about some of the attributes of my RT. I was just reading the manual about riding modes and they state these three features are modulated for each riding mode: ASC, ABS, ESA, throttle response. I had been assuming it was mostly throttle response. From the manual:

"BMW Motorrad has developed three riding scenarios for your motorcycle from which you can select the one matching your situation:

Riding on wet roads (RAIN)
Riding on dry roads (ROAD)
Pro riding modes OE Brisk riding on dry roads (DYN)

For each of those scenarios, the optimum balance between engine torque, throttle response, ABS control and ASC control for the situation concerned is provided. With Dynamic ESA the suspension settings also adjust to the selected scenario."

My default is ROAD, if in the wet RAIN, and if on the interstate or in an area where fast passing is demanded I will use DYN, but change ESA to NORM or SOFT, sometimes HARD if I'm riding faster on smooth pavement. I wonder if for my needs RAIN mode wouldn't be a better default even for riding thru the twisties. Sounds like what it would offer would be some attenuation of less than smooth inputs, yes? In that regard then, it's essentially 'SAFEr mode'. Wouldn't win races with it perhaps, but we've beaten that topic to death already!

 

[greenwald]

OK, you've opened yourself up to another question! Why should every rider use the track?

This whole litany came from a visit to the local BMW shop and chit chatting w/ some regulars there and the really good guy who runs the front counter who rides w/ the German guy. We're in Nor Calif and these guys from what I always hear from them ride on the street like they're on the track, and they ride the track as well. They're middle aged riders w/ tons of riding experience. It's interesting to me they haven't come out of many track days or CA Superbike Schools with the same attitude that not only you describe, but yours is the same as the guy who runs Track Days here at our local track.

As mentioned the real reason, at age 64, w/ 3 recent years and 47K miles of riding experience, I would subject myself to the cost and risk of track days is just to get more comfortable with the feeling of leaning the bike over more, that's really all I really care about. Going to local track days I would need to take my RT, and that thanks sounds crazy, so odds are slim I'd do Track Days locally now that I look at this. Ca SB School puts you on an S1000R, but does that translate to riding a 604lb boxer? Sort of, but not really!

After reading several good books on riding from Lee Parks when i resumed riding after a 28y lay off a few years ago I adopted everything I could out of those books that applied to street riding. Positioning, vision, picking lines for later apexing, staying ultra smooth w/ transitions of throttle, engine braking and braking, I employ all the time. Nope, wouldn't be able to do fast laps on a track w/ these because I've never practiced them at track speeds, but do I care? Nope. The only real change for me now is getting used to using the front brake to slow down before entering a curve, just in case I've let myself not be fully prepared for the upcoming turn so I can slow more than engine braking affords, and that's an easy change to add.

It seems I let myself get teased into thinking I don't ride nearly as hard as skilled riders can safely get away with on the street, like those two fellows at the shop AND like the RTW I saw there with almost zero chicken strips. So thanks to all including the proprietor of Pacific Track Time who on no uncertain terms said exactly what you have woken me back up to: riding on the street like you ride on the track is a form of crazy, or at least don't jive w/ my risk tolerance.

Well said. Well said.

 

[rxcrider]

One thing to consider from a guy who has had no formal training and only has one unsupervised track day under his belt (ride at your own risk private track rental): Being on a closed course lets you focus more on your interaction with the bike since you don't need to think about other things on the road moving in different directions. Eliminating distractions lets you focus on learning and closed course work (be it in parking lot or on a track) can only make you a better rider.

 

[pffog]

OK, you've opened yourself up to another question! Why should every rider use the track?

This whole litany came from a visit to the local BMW shop and chit chatting w/ some regulars there and the really good guy who runs the front counter who rides w/ the German guy. We're in Nor Calif and these guys from what I always hear from them ride on the street like they're on the track, and they ride the track as well. They're middle aged riders w/ tons of riding experience. It's interesting to me they haven't come out of many track days or CA Superbike Schools with the same attitude that not only you describe, but yours is the same as the guy who runs Track Days here at our local track.

As mentioned the real reason, at age 64, w/ 3 recent years and 47K miles of riding experience, I would subject myself to the cost and risk of track days is just to get more comfortable with the feeling of leaning the bike over more, that's really all I really care about. Going to local track days I would need to take my RT, and that thanks sounds crazy, so odds are slim I'd do Track Days locally now that I look at this. Ca SB School puts you on an S1000R, but does that translate to riding a 604lb boxer? Sort of, but not really!

After reading several good books on riding from Lee Parks when i resumed riding after a 28y lay off a few years ago I adopted everything I could out of those books that applied to street riding. Positioning, vision, picking lines for later apexing, staying ultra smooth w/ transitions of throttle, engine braking and braking, I employ all the time. Nope, wouldn't be able to do fast laps on a track w/ these because I've never practiced them at track speeds, but do I care? Nope. The only real change for me now is getting used to using the front brake to slow down before entering a curve, just in case I've let myself not be fully prepared for the upcoming turn so I can slow more than engine braking affords, and that's an easy change to add.

It seems I let myself get teased into thinking I don't ride nearly as hard as skilled riders can safely get away with on the street, like those two fellows at the shop AND like the RTW I saw there with almost zero chicken strips. So thanks to all including the proprietor of Pacific Track Time who on no uncertain terms said exactly what you have woken me back up to: riding on the street like you ride on the track is a form of crazy, or at least don't jive w/ my risk tolerance.

Where to start, first California SB school is a great school, and I believe they still let you ride your bike in the beginner classes. If they don't most other organizations do here in the east. I have seem many RT's out there learning to trust the bike. And as I said my #1 advice to track days riders is try to be SMOOTH, not fast. The track, for all the reasons mentioned is the best place to practice this.

As for track day junkies riding faster on the street, I can tell you 100% that I ride far less aggressive on the street when I do track days, as the track is my driving range/putting green where I practice so I am better in the real world.

Am I smoother, yes, that makes riding effortless and I do probably carry more speed through corners than I did, but I am also safer! I have had too many riders than I can count tell me they love following me, both on and off the track and even one Swiss resident in the Alps who didn't want to pass me because he said he enjoyed watching me, because I am fluid. Many of my local friends nicknamed me Mr Smooth. I honed these skills on the track.

As to the "why", IMHO you will be a safer street rider. Look at most of the single vehicle accidents on twisty roads, most are due to people running wide, or not trusting the bike and there skill and over braking and straightening up.

I will put it simply, if you skill level peaks at a 6 and you ride the street at a 5, you have little reserve for the unexpected, if your skill can be raised to a 10 then you can ride street at a 6 and have LOTS of skill in reserve.

I don't know a single person that went to a well run track day that had good instructors and said they were not better riders at the end of the day. Take the RT and go find the right organization, like good suspension for a bike, it is the best $$ you will spend on riding. The PTT organization isn't the right fit, other will be.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

Look at most of the single vehicle accidents on twisty roads, most are due to people running wide, or not trusting the bike and there skill and over braking and straightening up.

I will put it simply, if you skill level peaks at a 6 and you ride the street at a 5, you have little reserve for the unexpected, if your skill can be raised to a 10 then you can ride street at a 6 and have LOTS of skill in reserve.

I don't know a single person that went to a well run track day that had good instructors and said they were not better riders at the end of the day. Take the RT and go find the right organization, like good suspension for a bike, it is the best $$ you will spend on riding. The PTT organization isn't the right fit, other will be.

Makes sense w/ a few qualifications. If most single accidents on twisty roads come from running wide this is always going to be from other factors way before it's time to lean the bike over: you weren't paying enough attention to the upcoming curve, you weren't 100% dedicated to entering every single curve at a sane speed. Trying to keep up w/ faster riders can set you up for this potentiality. So you are at a crossroads: now that you've increased your skill level to 8 from 6, will you now try to keep up w/ some riders who are OK w/ riding faster on those twisty roads? I think overwhelmingly that can come into play. Since this discussion began I've actually slowed my entry speeds a little and increased my acceleration out of the curve. These skill level numbers are all arbitrary, but you get the point. I also am mentally more prepared pre-discussion to be ready to lean the bike more should something appear in mid-curve. Intellectually I know I have quite a bit of wiggle room as well before hitting feelers, so that's good.

I would hope you would become a better rider so that's a given. As I see it, most of the benefit would be in the fun of doing it and developing trust to lean the bike more in a safer environment. I think the very real unintended consequence not mentioned here is this: you will become a faster rider on the street because you believe you can get away with it. You will be more tempted to keep up w/ faster riders for sure. Just look at the two guys I mentioned. So in the end what's demanded is riding a few notches below your skill level, regardless of where that point is.

 

[rxcrider]

...So in the end what's demanded is riding a few notches below your skill level, regardless of where that point is.

...and the higher your skill level, the more cushion you have when things go sideways. Also, if you get to ride fun roads, it often isn't x notches below your skill level, but rather at a fun pace which still lets you avoid the potential stuff you can't see yet. Better skills can be the difference between sliding under the car that pulls out unexpectedly and riding around it. Better skills can be the difference between a low side and a drift on the antifreeze slick you find unexpectedly as you turn onto the on ramp. I wouldn't write off being a better rider because you are afraid you will go faster.

 

[pffog]

Makes sense w/ a few qualifications. If most single accidents on twisty roads come from running wide this is always going to be from other factors way before it's time to lean the bike over: you weren't paying enough attention to the upcoming curve, you weren't 100% dedicated to entering every single curve at a sane speed. Trying to keep up w/ faster riders can set you up for this potentiality. So you are at a crossroads: now that you've increased your skill level to 8 from 6, will you now try to keep up w/ some riders who are OK w/ riding faster on those twisty roads? I think overwhelmingly that can come into play. Since this discussion began I've actually slowed my entry speeds a little and increased my acceleration out of the curve. These skill level numbers are all arbitrary, but you get the point. I also am mentally more prepared pre-discussion to be ready to lean the bike more should something appear in mid-curve. Intellectually I know I have quite a bit of wiggle room as well before hitting feelers, so that's good.

I would hope you would become a better rider so that's a given. As I see it, most of the benefit would be in the fun of doing it and developing trust to lean the bike more in a safer environment. I think the very real unintended consequence not mentioned here is this: you will become a faster rider on the street because you believe you can get away with it. You will be more tempted to keep up w/ faster riders for sure. Just look at the two guys I mentioned. So in the end what's demanded is riding a few notches below your skill level, regardless of where that point is.

At 63(??) the testosterone levels should be more stable and the grey matter better disciplined to over ride the urge to do stupid things. And to answer the other question I will just ask this, on an unknown twisty road how relaxed are you and how many times do you pucker slightly and have to "react" in an urgent manner? What honing those skills on the track has done for most I know, is allow them to ride at a fun pace with no anxiety at all, including the "urge" to ride faster because you are afraid to hold up other traffic, and to have that extra reserve to use any time they are caught off guard a little.

Nothing is more satisfying on 2 wheels for me, than a ride on extremely tight and twisty pavement, hitting everything right, like a perfectly choreographed dance. My screen name would be "dances with pavement" but a friend already has that. 1000 miles in 24 hours on the slab does nothing for me, in fact riding the slab 10 minutes is something I avoid like the plague, but I travel to both ends on N America, and Europe to ride twisty ribbons of blacktop, that is my thing.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

At 63(??)And to answer the other question I will just ask this, on an unknown twisty road how relaxed are you and how many times do you pucker slightly and have to "react" in an urgent manner?

Nothing is more satisfying on 2 wheels for me, than a ride on extremely tight and twisty pavement, hitting everything right, like a perfectly choreographed dance. My screen name would be "dances with pavement" but a friend already has that. 1000 miles in 24 hours on the slab does nothing for me, in fact riding the slab 10 minutes is something I avoid like the plague, but I travel to both ends on N America, and Europe to ride twisty ribbons of blacktop, that is my thing.

Since I resumed riding 3y ago at age 61 after a 28y layoff, having read thru Lee Park's Total Control twice, and David Hough's Proficient Motorcycling 2 or 3 times, and a few other riding books, I've puckered a bit twice in the first 6K miles of 49K miles ridden since resuming. Both were from not being mentally prepared for the next turn in both instances--I just crossed a double yellow line twice early on in a section of CA Highway 1 between Carmel and SLO, riding w/ some folks that knew the road super well and not having had enough practice of what I had book-learned, and not having the wisdom to ride at a pace within my skill level. I ride in a mix of twisties and everything else. RTLC is so well adapted to every kind of paved road and I immensely enjoy all of it, even the slab in spots as long as traffic is modest to better. Every single time out in traffic or solo or with a buddy on many of the incredible twisty roads I practice everything I've read, and have come up with a few strategies to reduce risk that I've never read about. My corner entry speeds are now 15-25mph over the pre-corner posted speed (it's the only way I can communicate here any semblance of that part of cornering, though I don't depend on posted speeds because they don't always exist of course). I'll stand by this opinion: it will be very difficult to resist implementing what one learns at for example CA SB School, while riding on the street. And while that person will be a better total rider, that does not automatically translate to lower crash risk for all hours ridden. I truly have only one underlying agenda: returning home unscathed.