Heated gear rant..

[mjfink420]

Thank CaptCF for that!

Quick question, how did you wire the gloves into your Gerbring setup? Did you split off the wire coming out of the bike, one wire to heat controller for the Gerbring gear and then another wire (direct 12V) to the gloves? Or were you able to run them using the controller and then "fine tune" using the controls right on the gloves?

My liner, in the pocket that's too small for the remote (ARGH!!), has a wire that goes out to the gloves directly. So I could come off the bike and split the 12V wire there, one wire to the controller and the other wire direct to the gloves. Honestly, that would probably be a good setup for me, then I'd have control of the jacket and insoles using my Gerbring controller and control the gloved independently using the controls right on them. The only problem will be the pocket on the liner; trying to get a splitter in there along with the remote could be a rage inducing event.

I think I'll give them a try though, shoot, I'm already so deep in the nightmare of heated gear, what's another 200 bucks. And I'm sure the gloves I kind of like will be dying soon, I use them a lot and, as you experienced, most heated gear seems to be more for show than for go, expect them to fail sometime in the near future.

I usually don't need a ton of heat on my hands, it's generally my feet that suffer the most; so they might work for me. If not, I'll just add them to collection of heated garbage that I already have, makes for a better story, right?

Also, the heated grips on my bike (stock BMW) are NO joke. It's really the outside of my hands that suffer in the cold, I don't usually need a ton of heat on my hands; despite having many pairs of heated gloves, they are my least worn item, both because I don't usually need them, and because I know I'm taking a risk wearing them because they have effectively 0 protection for a fall.

 

[mjfink420]

FYI Macna makes heated gear that has a Bluetooth app so you can individually control everything. May not get as hot but has a lot of flexibility. Limited but some pieces available in the US.
I have the same warm and safe plus garbing glove combo and agree with all you have posted. Those two are the best so far but I am still searching.

Another name I've not heard of before, looks pretty interesting, thank you for the heads up! I'd really like to get gloves I felt confident going down in so I didn't have to choose "warm hands or road rash" when riding in colder weather.

Honestly, this seems like a great place for a big company like Klim to "fix this". Just make a line of heated gear where everything integrates together nicely inside all full set of top tier protection and materials. I'd come out of pocket big for a system that works well. I think the problem, all the big moto brands focus on the outerwear side, you really don't want heat in your jacket, you want it in a liner that's under your jacket (right against your body). That's why I'm after Bohn to try to get them to release something. Gloves and boots, however, those are two items where "integrated heat" is kind of a must have and a company like Klim or Daytona could get idiots like me to drop some big coin for a comfortable, warm, protective piece of motorcycle gear.

Thanks very much for the heads up though guys, really appreciate it. I've done a lot of digging for good gear and never ran into some of these names before, seems they are EU/AU companies that don't do a lot of business here; but, if the stuff works, I don't care if they are based in Antartica, just want a system where every piece I put on I'm happy to own it and wear it.

I guess there's very little market for this stuff in the US? Seems kind of strange, it doesn't even get that cold in most of AU. The EU I get, big mountains, big temperature changes, that's where heated gear really shines.

 

[CaptCF]

Thank CaptCF for that!

Quick question, how did you wire the gloves into your Gerbring setup? Did you split off the wire coming out of the bike, one wire to heat controller for the Gerbring gear and then another wire (direct 12V) to the gloves? Or were you able to run them using the controller and then "fine tune" using the controls right on the gloves?

My liner, in the pocket that's too small for the remote (ARGH!!), has a wire that goes out to the gloves directly. So I could come off the bike and split the 12V wire there, one wire to the controller and the other wire direct to the gloves. Honestly, that would probably be a good setup for me, then I'd have control of the jacket and insoles using my Gerbring controller and control the gloved independently using the controls right on them. The only problem will be the pocket on the liner; trying to get a splitter in there along with the remote could be a rage inducing event.

I think I'll give them a try though, shoot, I'm already so deep in the nightmare of heated gear, what's another 200 bucks. And I'm sure the gloves I kind of like will be dying soon, I use them a lot and, as you experienced, most heated gear seems to be more for show than for go, expect them to fail sometime in the near future.

I usually don't need a ton of heat on my hands, it's generally my feet that suffer the most; so they might work for me. If not, I'll just add them to collection of heated garbage that I already have, makes for a better story, right?

Also, the heated grips on my bike (stock BMW) are NO joke. It's really the outside of my hands that suffer in the cold, I don't usually need a ton of heat on my hands; despite having many pairs of heated gloves, they are my least worn item, both because I don't usually need them, and because I know I'm taking a risk wearing them because they have effectively 0 protection for a fall.

When I was using the Gerbing jacket liner and the Gerbing gloves I had the Gerbing dual heat controller so one lead from the bike to the jacket liner and then the gloves plugged into the jacket liner. There were two knobs on the heat controller - one for the liner and one for the gloves. At some point the liner broke (again) and stopped heating one of the gloves so I stopped using it and opted for another layer instead since a fleece midlayer has never failed me. At that point I went back to the Gerbing Y cable and just threaded it between the jacket shell and liner (I had a RevIt Cayenne at the time and it had a detachable rain liner). The Keis heat controller was built into the gloves so there was no external box to wear or mount - just a Y cable and you turned the gloves on by pressing a button on the gloves themselves.

 

[52184]

First world problem, for sure.
Most of us are happy to just plug in and go, adjusting as need be along the ride. My last ride over the pass for breakfast with the buds started at 22 degrees with clear and dry roads; once down the other side I just dialed back to a more suitable setting. And I suspect I’m like a lot of folks in that adding thermostats and individual control on boots would have me steering clear of $1k+ boots and $500 jacket liners. It’s great to be pushing mfgrs to continually improve or expand their products, but the end result has to sell in quantities large enough to make it pay…

Best,
DeVern

 

[CaptCF]

Oh, another thing heat related that I think someone with your, uh, appreciation for granular control will appreciate... Somehow on the first read I must have missed that you have an XR.. If you have a GS911 or access to one the latest firmware update lets you make changes to the bike's heated grips. On my gen 1 XR I was able to bump both levels 1 and 2 to higher settings than stock (I think stock is 40 and 65% of max). On my gen 2 I was able to add 3 additional heat levels for a total of 6 and you can set each level to whatever percentage of max you want. If you don't have a GS911 or a buddy with one I suspect a dealership will do it for you too.

 

[mjfink420]

When I was using the Gerbing jacket liner and the Gerbing gloves I had the Gerbing dual heat controller so one lead from the bike to the jacket liner and then the gloves plugged into the jacket liner. There were two knobs on the heat controller - one for the liner and one for the gloves. At some point the liner broke (again) and stopped heating one of the gloves so I stopped using it and opted for another layer instead since a fleece midlayer has never failed me. At that point I went back to the Gerbing Y cable and just threaded it between the jacket shell and liner (I had a RevIt Cayenne at the time and it had a detachable rain liner). The Keis heat controller was built into the gloves so there was no external box to wear or mount - just a Y cable and you turned the gloves on by pressing a button on the gloves themselves.

ROFL, it just gets better. Looking hard at those gloves, they are the reverse of the Gerbring setup. The now (since 2020 I guess) have a male connector on the gloves. My jackets all have (yes, all of them, sigh) male connectors coming out. Sure, I guess I could do a female to female, but, once again, we're venturing in the realm of "Janky". Guess they wanted to introduce a barrier to try to get people to stick entirely in their system.

And I suspect I’m like a lot of folks in that adding thermostats and individual control on boots would have me steering clear of $1k+ boots and $500 jacket liners

I suspect you're right. I rarely see bikes even setup to use heated gear, and even rarer do I see other people out wearing it. If it's cold enough to really want it, there are almost no bikes on the road in my area (SC). Just must not be a big enough market to get the big players interested in building really nice stuff/high end stuff. Interesting that the names suggested in this thread for alternatives/higher end all seem to be overseas and most don't even seem to have distributors in the US. So it seems there is a market, but we're just not it. Which kind of makes sense, the weather swings if you're riding in the Alps can be extreme; 80 degrees to 30 degrees in an hour; you do that often, you're going to be using heated gear constantly. Guess most people in the US just don't live in or don't do the type of riding where heated gear makes much sense, hence the lack of options that are imported regularly here?

Individual controls for all the components wouldn't add much cost. You can "jank it" together today if you wanted, just get two controllers. Maybe 100 bucks more? Just not at all a seamless/clean setup. The names suggested in this thread seem to be attacking it a different way (Bluetooth controls from a phone); it's a solution to the same problem, but not one I'm crazy about. I play with my heat controls often in the mountains, I really don't want to have to try to unlock and interact with my phone at speed. Now, if they had a thermostat, that would be a different story; but it appears it's just individual control of the power level on all the devices at once; good, but using a phone, not so good.

It's crazy, when you go skiing you see people in 1000 dollar heated boots all the time. And I can promise you, unless they are going pro, they spend a lot less time skiing than I do riding in the winter. But I'm pretty sure, both from the lack of bikes I see out there and the responses on this thread, it comes down to my use case just isn't that common. Most people aren't riding, and, if they are, they aren't riding mountains, and, if they are doing both, they're not doing 1000's of miles a year in the winter where spending the $$ on premium heated gear would make sense. I am a little surprised though, seems like every BMW rally I go to, nearly every person there is Klim Badlands from head to toe, dropping 1K on a jacket and then another 500-1000 on an airbag doesn't seem to phase the "typical" BMW owner one bit. I feel out of place in my "cheap Klim" (Marrakesh) or my Dinaise (which is still expensive, but not at the level of a full Badlands or Kodiak).

I really do feel that heated gear "done well" could become almost a "standard" in colder weather gear. If you could wear the same outfit from 80 to 20 degrees and be comfortable the whole time with just a single wire running to the bike, feels like that would be something that a lot of people would want.

 

[mjfink420]

Oh, another thing heat related that I think someone with your, uh, appreciation for granular control will appreciate... Somehow on the first read I must have missed that you have an XR.. If you have a GS911 or access to one the latest firmware update lets you make changes to the bike's heated grips. On my gen 1 XR I was able to bump both levels 1 and 2 to higher settings than stock (I think stock is 40 and 65% of max). On my gen 2 I was able to add 3 additional heat levels for a total of 6 and you can set each level to whatever percentage of max you want. If you don't have a GS911 or a buddy with one I suspect a dealership will do it for you too.

Huh, didn't realize that. Also not sure I'm going to do it, honestly, level 3 heat is so hot that I've never found myself wanting more. I was riding in the snow (not on purpose!) last week in the mountains and only had the grips on level 2. Those suckers are HOT. It's the backs of my hands that'll get me to pull out the heated gloves, not the palms. I did add the bigger wind guards (Wunderlich, I think) and those made a big difference, but around ~45 or so, I start wanting the heated gloves for the backs of my hands.

 

[drneo66]

Have you looked into connecting with Phenix Flaming Hot Heated Gear? He does custom work and my have a solution for you. His gore-tex gloves with custom heat are well liked in the IBA world...

 

[mjfink420]

Have you looked into connecting with Phenix Flaming Hot Heated Gear? He does custom work and my have a solution for you. His gore-tex gloves with custom heat are well liked in the IBA world...

Thank you so much for this. Looks like this gent can fix my armored glove problem!!

I reached out tonight, I'm going to see if maybe he can make me a custom pair of Daytona's with the wires all run on the outside (rather than down my leg and potentially rubbing). I have some really good armored cold weather gloves, wonder if I can send him a pair and have him make them hot...

This might be the most useful rant thread ever. I just wanted to blow off steam, wasn't expecting anyone to actually have a fix to my problems!! Thank you so much everyone for the great suggestions!!

 

[bkkjack]

Nothing quite like a good rant to get the discussion going. Without writing a book, I'll get straight to the point: Heat controllers. I don't need or want Bluetooth remotes or phone apps. I'm already literally wired to the bike, so anything other than a basic two output controller with physical knobs does nothing but introduce more possibilities for failure or loss. I just want a wired controller with knobs that are big enough and set far enough apart that I can easily adjust the heat for my jacket and/or gloves while riding.

 

[mjfink420]

Nothing quite like a good rant to get the discussion going. Without writing a book, I'll get straight to the point: Heat controllers. I don't need or want Bluetooth remotes or phone apps. I'm already literally wired to the bike, so anything other than a basic two output controller with physical knobs does nothing but introduce more possibilities for failure or loss. I just want a wired controller with knobs that are big enough and set far enough apart that I can easily adjust the heat for my jacket and/or gloves while riding.

I'd like thermostatic control, but, if that can't/won't happen, I'd be happy with a well designed heat controller that has 4 knobs (one for each piece of clothing) and a receiver box (that goes in your jacket/liner) that's compact. Oh, and that has rock solid communication between the controller and receiver.

While I'd like thermostatic control, I do agree with you, I have -0- desire to involve my phone in the path between my motorcycle and heat. Cell phones are amazingly flexible, but they are also laughably unreliable compared to dedicated devices that are purpose built for application. And for motorcycles, where you're always going to have gloves on; yeah.. No thank you, I want exactly 0 interaction with my phone while riding. The only way I'd consider that is if it was only used to set the thermostatic control; that way I could do it once and be done for an entire ride (or maybe forever, you don't have to adjust the thermostat in your house every day, if I could set my heat levels per zone in degrees, it might be a 1-done thing, set it for whatever is comfortable, then ride any season you want and the controller will increase/reduce heat as needed).

 

[PoorUB]

FYI Macna makes heated gear that has a Bluetooth app so you can individually control everything. May not get as hot but has a lot of flexibility. Limited but some pieces available in the US.
I have the same warm and safe plus garbing glove combo and agree with all you have posted. Those two are the best so far but I am still searching.

Bluetooth for a heated jacket?! The last thing I want to do is have my phone available to adjust my heated jacket. Just sell me a controller.

The way Bluetooth and phone apps are going, pretty soon I will need to use my phone to take a dump!

 

[PGlaves]

... pretty soon I will need to use my phone to take a dump!

I already do since the magazine rack went away.

 

[52184]

I already do since the magazine rack went away.

DeVern

 

[lee]

The thing about heated gloves that really left me scratching my head (other than the lack of comparable protection to non-heated gloves) is the lack of waterproof heated options. There are all sorts of Goretex and other membrane type waterproof gloves available unheated, but the minute you start looking at heated gloves there are almost no waterproof options. Hence the Keis experiment but we know how that turned out...

.

Warm and Safe has waterproof heated gloves.

https://www.warmnsafe.com/collectio...s/ultimate-touring-heated-gloves-with-i-touch

 

[bkkjack]

Warm and Safe has waterproof heated gloves.

https://www.warmnsafe.com/collectio...s/ultimate-touring-heated-gloves-with-i-touch

I have those gloves. They are very nice. A little stiff in the fingers out of the box, but they break in quickly.

 

[easy]

The Kanetsu works well, but it is pricy.

 

[natsmada]

I use the Warm-N-Safe glove liners and jacket, that way I can use any of my motorcycle gloves and keep toasty warm. I installed (Velcro) the 2 circuit wireless controller on my front brake master cylinder and can easily adjust either knob - even with my bulky Winter gloves. I guess that makes ME the manual thermostat controller.

YMMV

 

[RPGR90s]

First, the good part; I recently got a Warm and Safe "Layer Shirt" and it's very, very nice under my winter riding jacket. It still has problems (why is the pocket so small that it BARELY holds the remote control?!), but it's better than the, well, basically entire Gerbing and California Heat closet of crap that I have.

Now.. The rant.

Why is so much heated gear such garbage!?!? Yes, it works, and it's warm. But allow me to break down some of the issues and how EASY it would be to fix them.

Let's start with the controller. First off, 12V powered or AA batteries with a read out for TEMPERATURE. Why on earth am I turning this knob up and down; put a thermostat in each piece of gear, let me set a temperature and figure out how much power to send to each area! We've had thermostats for a solid, IDK, 100 years now, and this stuff is right on your body, it would be trivial to put a small temp sensor in each piece.

Next, why am I wiring stuff in parallel and have 2 knobs (shouldn't have any knobs, as above, THERMOSTAT, but if you're not going to do that, 4 pieces of gear, 4 knobs!!) to control 4 heat areas?? Is there some radio frequency limit I'm not aware of that prevents sending that massive amount of data?? I mean, 30 years ago, sure, electronics were expensive; today?? Allow adjusting each piece independently, kind of seems obvious!

Round wires running against my body?? Someone please show Gerbring the "new fangled" flat cables that are available.. Well, everywhere.

Why on earth are we using a 4in combined plug to connect gloves to a jacket? Use a small connector that can tuck in easily guys, come on!

Armor! Calling a warm pair of gloves "Motorcycle" does not make them so. Where are the sliders, the Aramid, and the CE ratings on.. Well, all of it?!

I finally got my heated insoles comfortable in my boots, but, as an insole, it only heats the bottom. Collaborate with a company that makes boots and give me a good winter riding boot with integrated heat. Ski boots have had this for years, wrap the heat all the way around the foot inside the boot with an easy to access (and small) connector on the side. Again, ski boots have had this for years guys.

I have tons of heated gear, about 3 pairs of gloves, heated socks (GARBAGE), insoles (actually, I'm pretty happy with these, but they should be integrated into the boot), several jackets (all garbage), a liner I just got from Warm and Safe (MUCH better, but should have integrated armor pockets and a pocket big enough to comfortably hold the controller).

When I pick up most nice motorcycle gear, a good jacket for example, it takes me 30 minutes to just even see and understand all the nice things it offers, they are so well designed (from all the major/high end brands today); they are all good, it's more a style and comfort question. When I pick up heated gear, it takes me 30 seconds to figure out "yeah, this isn't well engineered" or "who can even use these" (heated socks come to mind).

Yesterday I was riding with my liner and gloves on one knob, my pants and feet on the other knob. I was about to pour water into my boot to cool off, legs were cold, body warm, hands on fire (I actually just pulled the plug to the gloves). This is SUCH a stupid problem, and it's not rocket science to figure it out and fix it. Go up the mountain, every 5 mins turning the heat up, down the mountain, every 5 minutes turning it down.

I mean, this could be so nice. Add some sensors, get on the bike, plug in and just ride comfortable. I feel like heated gear is stuck in the 80s (my Gerbring liner jacket looks like someone stole it from a ~1990 baseball team; 3 in elastic cuffs... Who does that anymore?!?).

<sigh>

Anyway, to add some value to this post, the stuff that I have that does work well:

Warm and Safe Heated Layer Shirt (don't even consider Gerbring here, if you want one, send me an IM and pay for shipping, I'll send you mine. You'll still feel ripped off when you get it).
https://www.warmnsafe.com/collections/12v-for-motorcycling-power-sports/products/mens-12v-heatlayer

Gerbring Hero Gloves:
https://gerbing.com/collections/12v...-gloves-12v-motorcycle?variant=44879385395491

These aren't bad. The wire needs to be flat, and needs better sliders, but it's not awful. Avoid the any of the California Heat gloves except their lightest model, I have them all, all but the lightest ones are pretty awful)

Gerbring Heated Insoles:
https://gerbing.com/collections/hea...orcycle-heated-insoles?variant=44879379759395

These are pretty good, but are thicker than a regular insole, if your boot is tight, you're gonna suffer. I eventually just bought another pair of boots, up a size, to make them work. No heat on the top, which means the boots need to be pretty heavy to keep warm (I use Daytonas).

Pants:
None, I have 2 pairs, they are both awful.


I just don't understand how there's been about 0 innovation in this space. I know I'm not the only idiot who rides in the 30's, please, someone, give us a full collection of good, armored heated gear and think a little outside the box!

<end rant>

I've been riding a long time, done a ton of miles. I have zero complaints with my older Gerbings heated vest (long sleeves, and heated collar). What made it perfect was adding a Heat-Troller to control the gloves and vest separately. That coupled with the heated grips (2004 RT) is near perfection on a cold winter day.

 

[JerryG]

I'm happy with my Warm and Safe Heated Layer Shirt and my Gordon Gloves, both controlled by Warm and Safe's Heat-Troller. The gloves are full thickness leather made by Churchhill Gloves for Gordon Gerbing, the son the original Gerbings; he added the insulation and heat. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that his company survived the COVID downturn. After some experimentation, I stopped using pants and insoles as unnecessary as long as my core and hands are heated, but that's an individual tolerance thing. On my S1000XR, I've routinely ridden in freezing temps with just heated layer shirt and gloves combined with Aerostich Fleece pants and sweater, all under 100% mesh 100% Kevlar Motoport suit which provides no wind-blocking.

If I was going to try something new, it would be Mosko Moto's Ectotherm Insulated 12v Heated Jacket. I re-entered adventure riding after a 35-year hiatus of ~500,000 miles of on-road-only riding when I bought my G310GS two years ago. Trying to figure out what gear to wear, I bought over $12,000 worth of adventure/dual sport gear and returned all but $1200 of it. All of the clothing I kept is Mosko Moto. Almost all the other gear I kept is recommended and/or sold by them. They have a laser focus on things that work and they stand behind them.

P.S. I currently have 24,686 miles on my 2022 G310GS. I've used my Heated Layer Shirt during the cool parts of that, but that was rare and even more rare to be plugged in. Lest you think those were easy miles...

In 2022, I rode 11,553 miles. this included the Smoky Mountain 500 in NC, TN, & GA; a curvy road run with some off-road from Hendersonville, NC, to Springfield, MO, for the BMW MOA National Rally; a mixed on/off-road run from there to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia via the Northeast Backcountry Discovery Route (BDR).

In 2023, I rode 13,133 miles on my 2022 G310GS with my MM R80. This included the Death Valley Noobs Rally in California; the April Fools Adventure Rally in Ohio; an east coast run that included the Mid-Atlantic BDR, the Pennsylvania BDR-X, the Trans America Trail (TAT) Atlantic Spur from the Appalachian Mountains to Cape Hatteras, NC, and the 2023 BMW MOA National Rally in Richmond, VA (where I did a seminar on my 310 mods); a mostly off-road TAT run from Hot Springs, NC, to Port Orford, OR, a mostly off-road run on the TAT Minnesota Spur and the Black Hills BDR-X, and a curvy road run from Wisconsin back to Hendersonville, NC.

This year I'll be doing as many BDR's as I can going to and from the BMW National in Oregon.