Heated gear rant..

[riderr1150gsadv]

Warm and Safe gear has been great so far. I just added the electric socks to my arsenal and that was a huge help when riding back from the winter rally last January when it was 37F in the AM. No more cold feet = priceless IMHO.
My previous gear was Widder but they retired from the business years ago but that was excellent gear as well. It pays to get good gear as being comfortable is of great importance in staying safe as well.... YMMV

 

[taran1900]

First, the good part; I recently got a Warm and Safe "Layer Shirt" and it's very, very nice under my winter riding jacket. It still has problems (why is the pocket so small that it BARELY holds the remote control?!), but it's better than the, well, basically entire Gerbing and California Heat closet of crap that I have.

Now.. The rant.

Why is so much heated gear such garbage!?!? Yes, it works, and it's warm. But allow me to break down some of the issues and how EASY it would be to fix them.

Let's start with the controller. First off, 12V powered or AA batteries with a read out for TEMPERATURE. Why on earth am I turning this knob up and down; put a thermostat in each piece of gear, let me set a temperature and figure out how much power to send to each area! We've had thermostats for a solid, IDK, 100 years now, and this stuff is right on your body, it would be trivial to put a small temp sensor in each piece.

Next, why am I wiring stuff in parallel and have 2 knobs (shouldn't have any knobs, as above, THERMOSTAT, but if you're not going to do that, 4 pieces of gear, 4 knobs!!) to control 4 heat areas?? Is there some radio frequency limit I'm not aware of that prevents sending that massive amount of data?? I mean, 30 years ago, sure, electronics were expensive; today?? Allow adjusting each piece independently, kind of seems obvious!

Round wires running against my body?? Someone please show Gerbring the "new fangled" flat cables that are available.. Well, everywhere.

Why on earth are we using a 4in combined plug to connect gloves to a jacket? Use a small connector that can tuck in easily guys, come on!

Armor! Calling a warm pair of gloves "Motorcycle" does not make them so. Where are the sliders, the Aramid, and the CE ratings on.. Well, all of it?!

I finally got my heated insoles comfortable in my boots, but, as an insole, it only heats the bottom. Collaborate with a company that makes boots and give me a good winter riding boot with integrated heat. Ski boots have had this for years, wrap the heat all the way around the foot inside the boot with an easy to access (and small) connector on the side. Again, ski boots have had this for years guys.

I have tons of heated gear, about 3 pairs of gloves, heated socks (GARBAGE), insoles (actually, I'm pretty happy with these, but they should be integrated into the boot), several jackets (all garbage), a liner I just got from Warm and Safe (MUCH better, but should have integrated armor pockets and a pocket big enough to comfortably hold the controller).

When I pick up most nice motorcycle gear, a good jacket for example, it takes me 30 minutes to just even see and understand all the nice things it offers, they are so well designed (from all the major/high end brands today); they are all good, it's more a style and comfort question. When I pick up heated gear, it takes me 30 seconds to figure out "yeah, this isn't well engineered" or "who can even use these" (heated socks come to mind).

Yesterday I was riding with my liner and gloves on one knob, my pants and feet on the other knob. I was about to pour water into my boot to cool off, legs were cold, body warm, hands on fire (I actually just pulled the plug to the gloves). This is SUCH a stupid problem, and it's not rocket science to figure it out and fix it. Go up the mountain, every 5 mins turning the heat up, down the mountain, every 5 minutes turning it down.

I mean, this could be so nice. Add some sensors, get on the bike, plug in and just ride comfortable. I feel like heated gear is stuck in the 80s (my Gerbring liner jacket looks like someone stole it from a ~1990 baseball team; 3 in elastic cuffs... Who does that anymore?!?).

<sigh>

Anyway, to add some value to this post, the stuff that I have that does work well:

Warm and Safe Heated Layer Shirt (don't even consider Gerbring here, if you want one, send me an IM and pay for shipping, I'll send you mine. You'll still feel ripped off when you get it).
https://www.warmnsafe.com/collections/12v-for-motorcycling-power-sports/products/mens-12v-heatlayer

Gerbring Hero Gloves:
https://gerbing.com/collections/12v...-gloves-12v-motorcycle?variant=44879385395491

These aren't bad. The wire needs to be flat, and needs better sliders, but it's not awful. Avoid the any of the California Heat gloves except their lightest model, I have them all, all but the lightest ones are pretty awful)

Gerbring Heated Insoles:
https://gerbing.com/collections/hea...orcycle-heated-insoles?variant=44879379759395

These are pretty good, but are thicker than a regular insole, if your boot is tight, you're gonna suffer. I eventually just bought another pair of boots, up a size, to make them work. No heat on the top, which means the boots need to be pretty heavy to keep warm (I use Daytonas).

Pants:
None, I have 2 pairs, they are both awful.


I just don't understand how there's been about 0 innovation in this space. I know I'm not the only idiot who rides in the 30's, please, someone, give us a full collection of good, armored heated gear and think a little outside the box!

<end rant>

I've ridden many times in the twenties and occasionally in the teens and single digits. The lowest was Zero in the Rhein-Main area in Germany. My Gerbing gear has always kept me warm. As for controllers. I have a Gerbing Bluetooth controller which is tie wrapped to my handle bar. Easy peasy.

Gerbing 12V Harness & Temp Controller Kit - The Warming Store

Gerbing 12V Harness & Temp Controller Kit This great Gerbing Temperature controller kit includes a battery harness, digital temperature con...

www.thewarmingstore.com

 

[gsinnc]

I have a Gerbings vest and full liner, both are the micro-wire and both are the Made in USA versions with lifetime guarantee. I also had a Venture Heat liner (It appears Venture Heat is the same liner that gets marketed under various names) which for me was not as warm as my Gerbings and I was not a fan of the temp fob/tab thing attached to the bottom. I bought the Venture heat as it packed up smaller than my Gerbings full liner. But I find my Gerbings vest packs up just as small so I sold the Venture heat and now take my Gerbings vest on ALL long trips. Even traveling in the summer I carry the vest since a cold summer rain can get pretty cold!

 

[JerryG]

First, the good part; I recently got a Warm and Safe "Layer Shirt" and it's very, very nice under my winter riding jacket. It still has problems (why is the pocket so small that it BARELY holds the remote control?!), but it's better than the, well, basically entire Gerbing and California Heat closet of crap that I have.

I think you have misunderstood the Heated Layer Shirt pockets. Notice that the diagram below does not show the any of the three pockets holding the remote control. The pockets of the Heated Layer Shirt are small because the only thing that's supposed be in them is the wires when they are not in use. The whole point of the small wireless controller is not to fit in that small pocket, but to be easily mounted where you can see what you're doing, and what you're riding toward, while you adjust your heat. In the cockpit shot of my S1000XR below, you can see my remote control mounted front and center where it is easy to adjust, double secured with 3M Dual Lock and a lanyard/carabiner combo. The corresponding receiver is under my seat and my wires are tucked behind my left side panel until I bring them out for use.

 

[lee]

I think you have misunderstood the Heated Layer Shirt pockets. Notice that the diagram below does not show the any of the three pockets holding the remote control. The pockets of the Heated Layer Shirt are small because the only thing that's supposed be in them is the wires when they are not in use. The whole point of the small wireless controller is not to fit in that small pocket, but to be easily mounted where you can see what you're doing,

I think he's talking about the receiver that stays in the shirt or jacket liner.

Dual Remote Heat-troller Receiver Only

Description The Dual Remote Heat-troller Receiver Replacement, Upgrade & Add On to the Heat Layer has the new processor, radio and code plus a new Battery Harness. The Dual Remote Control Receiver is for those that have lost theirs or want the newest design or need a 2nd to run a Shirt and Liner...

www.warmnsafe.com

 

[JerryG]

I think he's talking about the receiver that stays in the shirt or jacket liner.

Dual Remote Heat-troller Receiver Only

Description The Dual Remote Heat-troller Receiver Replacement, Upgrade & Add On to the Heat Layer has the new processor, radio and code plus a new Battery Harness. The Dual Remote Control Receiver is for those that have lost theirs or want the newest design or need a 2nd to run a Shirt and Liner...

www.warmnsafe.com

OK, I'll be more general and more complete this time.

The Heated Layer Shirt (HLS) pockets are not intended to hold anything other than the plugs that are part of the shirt, i.e., to hide and store the plugs when not being used. Note in Warm and Safe's diagram below, the (1) Dual Controller or Receiver and the (2) Dual Transmitter (if applicable) are pictured as being outside the HLS.

That said, this diagram is misleading in two ways:
(1) There is no HLS specific diagram (which would show both plugs B and D coming out of the same HLS side pocket)
(2) This diagram suggests you should plug the HLS directly into the Dual Controller or Receiver. Given the shortness of the wires involved, this would leave the Dual Controller or Receiver hanging from the HLS, banging against the rider's side and unsupported except by the friction fit of plugs B & D.

Fixing this is easy: First note that this applies to using a Dual Controller or a Dual Transmitter/Receiver Pair. The Dual Controller has the wires and knobs attached to a single box that has to be mounted where you can reach both the knobs and the Power Out cables. The Dual Transmitter/Receiver Pair has two boxes, a Dual Transmitter with knobs that you can mount anywhere you can reach the knobs and a Receiver that has to be mounted where you can reach the Power Out cables.

On Bike 1, I use a Dual Controller. I use 3M Dual Lock to mount the Dual Controller on the left side of my fairing where I can easily reach the knobs without taking my eyes off the road by feeling with my left hand and where I can have the Dual Controller's Power Out cables tucked under the fairing when not in use or on top of the fairing when in use. I have the Dual Controller's Power In cable wired under the fairing panels to my bike's battery via the a fuse-protected switched-power relay that provides power only when the ignition is switched on.

On Bike 2, I use a Dual Transmitter/Receiver Pair. I use 3M Dual Lock and the Dual Transmitter's Lanyard to double secure the Dual Transmitter to the top of my GPS prep mount where I can easily make adjustments while keeping my eyes on the road. I use cable-ties to secure the Receiver under the left side panel of my bike wired to my bike's battery via a fuse-protected switched-power relay that provides power only when the ignition is on. When not in use, I tuck the Receiver's Power Out cables under the left side panel. When in use, I pop the left side panel partially off; pull the Power Out cables outside the left side panel; and pop the left side panel back into place. This puts the Power Out cables directly below my left thigh when I'm sitting on the bike.

When I don my HLS, I have two each two-foot DC Coax Extension Cables (Warm and Safe SKU 71000260) that I plug into the HLS plugs B and D. Just before I mount my bike, I plug these extension cables into Bike 1's Dual Controller Power Out cables or Bike 2's Receiver Power Out cables. With the two-foot extension cables, I have enough slack to mount and dismount the bike as well as enough to move around and stand-up in the seat.

Hope this helps.
JerryG

Warm and Safe's 5_Jacket_Gloves.pdf:

 

[mjfink420]

While you are probably correct, that's a really silly design. Every heated jacket I've ever had (and I have quite a few) has very short wires (just like the HLS) and a pocket where you place the remote control. You leave the remote in the jacket and then you just have a single wire coming out of the jacket that you secure to the bike.

Your system fixes the issue, but why? Why make this one piece of clothing differently; everyone with heated gear I've ever met using a wireless controller has the controller in their pocket. Or, alternately, if for some reason you're going to make this to not put the remote in the pocket, make the wires long enough to run both of them to the bike.

Nope and nope. Sure, there are workarounds. There are workarounds to pretty much all these heated gear problems. Thing is, compared to most stuff today, heated gear is dead simple, why on earth are we engineering per bike workarounds for specific pieces of gear!? It's a 12V in and a basic thermostat coupled with wires that have high enough resistance to get warm. It, quite literally, can hardly be less complicated.

And yet, complicated is what we have. There are only so many things I can think about on the bike and still have enough brain power for the riding part. I'd like heated gear to help me concentrate more on the road rather than looking and feeling like I'm connected to an EKG machine.

That said, I do like the heated layer shirt. I've used it quite a few times, and it's working well for my application. When it gets warm enough that I don't need it anymore, I'm just going to take it to a tailor and have them put a reasonable sized pocket on it; I could care less what it looks like, I just want an easy to access place to store my remote.

My other gripe with the HLS, unlike my jackets, it doesn't have the connector through for pants. Yes, I know, I can use a Y cable, which is what I do; but it's just one more connection, one more thing that can work it's way free, and most importantly, one more 3" jumble of connectors when it's done up that I need find a spot for that won't poke me when I'm riding.

There must be very little demand for this stuff; there are so many ways that a modest sized company could make this stuff better with almost no engineering effort at all. Put a little engineering into it, OMG, could it be nice. The perfect, IMHO, is a single plug to the bike and gear that just keeps you warm. No rheostats to adjust, no combining gloves with jacket, or pants with shoes. Just like a car with 4 zone control, set a temp per zone once, get in the car, turn it on, magically the temp per zone is retained and it just works.

I'm sure we'll get there someday, but it's probably going to take a new entrant into the market to make the legacy players respond. Seems that all the new stuff with the "cool" tech is 7V, much bigger market I guess?

 

[JerryG]

Re me probably being correct: Thank you.

Re Putting the controller in the heated garment pocket: To me, that would be silly since it makes the controller inaccessible for easy adjustments.

Re demand: Given all the heated gear providers and products that have been mentioned in this thread; the market seems to be thriving, just not the features you want.

Re what you want: You seem to think it would be easy, so build it. If it's better and affordable, it will sell; if it's not, it won't.

 

[JerryG]

While researching a separate issue, I stumbled across the definitive answer from Warm and Safe about putting their remote in any pocket:

"5. For safety reasons, the Heat-troller Remote Control, when in use, should be somewhere it can be seen
and easily adjusted. That means NOT put in the pocket of clothing, down the jacket, in a tank bag, or
anywhere one cannot reach it easily to change the heat while the Heat-troller is being used! We include
Velcro with it so you can mount it, to reach with the left hand where it can be adjusted easily. On top of
the Clutch reservoir is where I put it."

The above is quoted from the attached instructions.

 

[JerryG]

Stumbled across another, to me at least, definitive answer from Warm and Safe; this time about thermostats:

"Q. WHY DON'T YOU OFFER HEAT CONTROL VIA SMARTPHONE APP?

A. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF HEATED GARMENTS THAT OFFER GIMMICKS SUCH AS HEAT CONTROL VIA CELL PHONE APPS OR THERMOSTATS THAT MAINTAIN A CERTAIN TEMPERATURE. WHILE THESE GIMMICKS OFTEN INITIALLY DRIVE SALES. IF YOU TALK TO ACTUAL USERS OF THE GARMENTS, YOU WILL FIND THE CELL PHONE APPS GET USED ONCE OR TWICE BEFORE THE USER FINDS IT INCONVENIENT AND DECIDES USING THE HEAT LEVEL CONTROLLERS IS MORE CONVENIENT. YOU WILL FIND THE THERMOSTATS JUST CAN'T MAINTAIN A COMFORTABLE LEVEL OF HEAT AND USERS NEARLY ALWAYS END UP PREFERRING MANUAL CONTROL. WE DON'T WASTE TIME AND MONEY ON SUCH GIMMICKS BUT WE SIMPLY OFFER THE BEST MANUAL CONTROL OVER ANY HEATED GARMENT AVAILABLE."

Source: https://www.warmnsafe.com/pages/faq

 

[crna59]

Stumbled across another, to me at least, definitive answer from Warm and Safe; this time about thermostats:

"Q. WHY DON'T YOU OFFER HEAT CONTROL VIA SMARTPHONE APP?

A. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF HEATED GARMENTS THAT OFFER GIMMICKS SUCH AS HEAT CONTROL VIA CELL PHONE APPS OR THERMOSTATS THAT MAINTAIN A CERTAIN TEMPERATURE. WHILE THESE GIMMICKS OFTEN INITIALLY DRIVE SALES. IF YOU TALK TO ACTUAL USERS OF THE GARMENTS, YOU WILL FIND THE CELL PHONE APPS GET USED ONCE OR TWICE BEFORE THE USER FINDS IT INCONVENIENT AND DECIDES USING THE HEAT LEVEL CONTROLLERS IS MORE CONVENIENT. YOU WILL FIND THE THERMOSTATS JUST CAN'T MAINTAIN A COMFORTABLE LEVEL OF HEAT AND USERS NEARLY ALWAYS END UP PREFERRING MANUAL CONTROL. WE DON'T WASTE TIME AND MONEY ON SUCH GIMMICKS BUT WE SIMPLY OFFER THE BEST MANUAL CONTROL OVER ANY HEATED GARMENT AVAILABLE."

Source: https://www.warmnsafe.com/pages/faq

I use my cell phone for GPS AND my Heated Gear. The App allows for greater control than the 3 setting that are supplied with the gear.

 

[JerryG]

Cell phone's are too fragile to be a potential single point of failure. Do you also bring your heated gear controller in case of a cell phone problem?

 

[JerryG]

BREAK - BREAK: I'M WRONG ABOVE.
MY PROFUSE APOLOGIES TO ALL, ESPECIALLY TO @mjfink420

The setup I describe in post #46 above is NOT what Warm and Safe intended. I only figured this out because of an semi-related email conversation I was having with Mike Coan at Warm and Safe. He floored me when he said that the instructions very clearly say to put the Receiver in the HLS side pocket. Only then did I see the "1 of 2" page count that my PDF reader was giving me (the instructions themselves don't have page numbers). When I moved to the second page, both the Jacket Liner section and the Heat Layer Shirt section very clearly say to do what @mjfink420 has been complaining about:

Jacket Liner Section: "there is a receiver pocket in the left side hand pocket that is designed to store the Receiver."

Heat Layer Shirt Section: "The Remote Receiver is designed to go into the side pocket of the Heat Layer Shirt."

Mike made two excellent points on why they recommend this:
- When you disconnect yourself from your bike, you are disconnecting and powering down the Receiver so it does not continue to draw power from your battery.
- With the Receiver permanently in your jacket liner or HLS, to move from one bike to another, all you have to do is move the Remote.

The setup I described in my post #46 above does work, if-and-only-if you use a switched power relay as I say to do in post #46. If you don't use a switched-power relay, the Receiver will continue trying to connect to the Remote until it drains your battery to nothing.

Now that I know Warm and Safe intends and recommends putting the Receiver in the HLS side pocket, I'm going to try that. I can't imagine it will be as comfortable as my current setup (see post #46 above), but I want to know one way or the other.

So they aren't buried in an attachment this time, here are pictures of the two pages from the instructions:

First page:

Second page:

 

[lee]

Now that I know Warm and Safe intends and recommends putting the Receiver in the HLS side pocket, I'm going to try that. I can't imagine it will be as comfortable as my current setup (see post #46 above), but I want to know one way or the other.

On our Warm and Safe jacket liners we put the receiver in the pocket made for it and I don't notice it because the receiver is thin.
It might be noticeable on the heated shirt because the shirt is probably a closer fit compared to the jacket liner.

 

[mjfink420]

On our Warm and Safe jacket liners we put the receiver in the pocket made for it and I don't notice it because the receiver is thin.
It might be noticeable on the heated shirt because the shirt is probably a closer fit compared to the jacket liner.

It's honestly not awful, I usually don't notice it's there. What I do notice is that the pocket is about .1" bigger than the controller/wire bundle. Getting it in there is a nightmare; there's just no reason for it to be so small when all the receivers that I have are all pretty much the same size (IE, too big, or, put another way, the pocket is too small!).

This isn't me throwing stones. The heated liner shirt is the best "jacket" layer I have (and, if you can't tell from my rant, I own a LOT of heated gear, I'm sure others are better qualified to comment, but I'm not exactly a "noob" when it comes to heated clothing). In fact, if anyone is interested, I'd be happy to make my "best of the worst" list; the heated gear that I like the best (and the heated shirt is on that list) for each position. Actually, let's just avoid the suspense:

Feet: https://gerbing.com/products/gerbing-12v-motorcycle-heated-insoles
These are pretty good. I hate that the wire has to snake up my leg (in my high winter boots). The "best" here would be a boot that's designed for heat (like a skiing boot); but, sadly, that does not exist. The downside, there's only heat on the bottom of your foot, and the insole is thicker than normal, so you may need to size up your boots. I have 3 pairs of heated socks. Don't do it. Yes, the heat wraps around your foot, but they are ridiculously uncomfortable, hard to put on, made of garbage material. If you want a pair, PM me and pay for shipping, I'll send you one of my experimental sets.

Jacket: Warm and Safe Gen 4 liner

Generation 4 Men's Heated Jacket Liner

Description The Generation 4 Men's Heated Jacket Liner The Men's Heated Jacket Liners warms you in seconds, yet is designed to feel like part of you. The high tech, moisture wicking fabric with stretch side and back panels, is designed to keep the garment tight against your body for optimal heat...

www.warmnsafe.com

Except for the pocket being too small, and no connection for pants/insoles, this is pretty good. Under a 4 season jacket, you can ride at 30 (maybe lower) comfortably.

Gloves: California Heat SportFlex

12V SportFlexx Gloves | California Heat

Our extremely thin & lightweight Heated SportFlexx gloves give you all the amazing warmth, without all the annoying bulk. Perfect for riding in temperatures above 35° F.

www.california-heat.com

These are actually pretty comfortable gloves. Problem with them is that the lead in wire is WAY too thick and is a bit of a hassle to deal with. Also, they appear to have about as much protection as latex gloves; if you hit the road in these, they're going to disintegrate, no armor, no sliders; basically a light winter glove with heat in it, not at all a "motorcycle glove".

Controller: California Heat dual temp

12V Dual Digital Temp Controller | California Heat

The Dual Digital Controller is an alternative option to the Dual Dial Controller. Each button has 10 stages up to 135°F, allowing you to control two heat zones independently.

www.california-heat.com

This seems to work fine. Complaint here would be "big and bulky" more than functionality. What I want (4 zones, thermostat) doesn't exist in the market; but this does what it claims to do and hasn't broken, it's just not a very elegant solution.

 

[JerryG]

It's honestly not awful, I usually don't notice it's there. What I do notice is that the pocket is about .1" bigger than the controller/wire bundle. Getting it in there is a nightmare; there's just no reason for it to be so small when all the receivers that I have are all pretty much the same size (IE, too big, or, put another way, the pocket is too small!).

This isn't me throwing stones. The heated liner shirt is the best "jacket" layer I have (and, if you can't tell from my rant, I own a LOT of heated gear, I'm sure others are better qualified to comment, but I'm not exactly a "noob" when it comes to heated clothing).

Now that I know Warm and Safe intends and recommends putting the Receiver in the HLS side pocket, I'm going to try that. I can't imagine it will be as comfortable as my current setup (see post #46 above), but I want to know one way or the other.

I said above that I'd try putting the Receiver in the HLS (Heated Layer Shirt) side pocket. Knowing that tomorrow morning was predicted to be 35F, last night I removed my Receiver from being mounted on my bike and put it in the HLS side pocket. I wanted to document @mjfink420 pocket size rant (his word), but I couldn't. Perhaps he has an earlier HLS with a smaller pocket, but the pocket in my HLS has more than enough room to hold the Receiver whether I have the Power In cable dangling through the otherwise closed zipper or wound up inside the pocket itself.

Picture 1 below shows that the HLS pocket is 6 inches side-to-side and 7.5 inches top-to-bottom.
Picture 2 below has the Receiver sitting on top of the HLS pocket.
Picture 3 below has the Receiver installed in the pocket with the Power In cable dangling outside the pocket.
Picture 4 below has both the Receiver and Power In cable all inside the pocket.

I also tested the comfort with the Receiver installed in the HLS pocket this two ways:
- First, with the Receiver and the Power In cable all stored in the pocket, I wanted to know if the HLS would be comfortable to wear around camp (so to speak). So, when I got up this morning, I wore my usual riding base layer (Darn Tough Socks, Kuhl hiking pants, & Mosko Moto Graph base layer t-shirt) plus the HLS. I wore this combination for a couple hours while I had breakfast, read my newspapers, and did odd jobs around the house. I'm happy to report that the HLS with Receiver was quite comfortable. I felt the wires and occasionally I felt the Receiver, but I'm quite satisfied the HLS with Receiver is comfortable enough for wearing around camp.
- Second, now with the Power In cable dangling out of the other wise closed zipper and plugged into the Power Out cable from my S1000XR, I rode my usual Wednesday Ride with the Sons and Daughters of Arthritis (SDOA), an Asheville-based local sub-group of the Appalachian BMW Riders. I was wearing my usual 100% mesh, 100% Kevlar, Quad-Armored, Motoport 2-piece suit on top of Aerostich TLTec Fleece Jacket and Pants under which I was wearing the HLS and the base layer previously described. I was also wearing a pair of Rev'it Discovery GTX shin-high boots, a pair of Gordon's (Churchhill-based) Heated Gauntlet Gloves, and a neck tube. Note: The Motoport suit itself is all mesh, it's not just a few mesh panels here and there that can be closed, it's all mesh, all over, and does not block airflow. During my usual hour long twisty ride to meetup with the SDOA, I experienced temperatures from 31F to 38F at speeds maxing out at 65 mph or so and I wasn't cold, which is my goal for this combination of layers. I cold feel the cold and I wasn't toasty, but I wasn't cold. If I had wanted toasty or had it been colder, I would have added my Marmot Precip Full-Zip Rain pants and Jacket.

Digression 1: Gordon's Gloves evidently didn't survive the COVID downturn which is a shame because unlike any other heated glove I've owned, they are full thickness leather gloves capable of protecting during a slide on pavement; the gloves were made by Churchhill Gloves (still in business) and the heating was added by Gordon Gerbing, the son of the original owners of Gerbing's Heated Clothing Co.

Digression 2: The riding gear I describe above, along with a pair of unheated Lee Parks Sumo R Gauntlet Gloves, a pair of Lee Parks Sumo Short Gloves and a pair of Aerostich Short Triple Digit Rain Glove Covers, is what I use 24/7/365 riding on-road. Layering or unlayering these items, I've ridden comfortably from 20F to 105F. I do not bring any other clothes except two extra sets of socks, underwear, and Graph t-shirt, washing and rotating as needed. My road bikes include a '21 S1000XR and a '17 S1000RR that have been to too many places to list. I expect to trade both of these for an R1300GS (optimized for off-road) this year or next.

Digression 3: Off-road is like going to the gym, so my gear has to reflect that, but my norm is still one minimal set of gear that I layer and unlayer. Below the waist, I use Darn Tough Socks, Rev'it GTX Expedition Boots, Asterisk Carbon Cell 1 Knee Braces, Leatt Impact Pants, Kuhl Hiking Pants, Mosko Moto Kiger Mesh Pants, and Marmot Full-Zip Rain Pants. Above the waist, I use Mosko Moto's Graph base layer t-shirt, Leatt Body Armor, Mosko Moto Workhorse Jersey, Aerostich TLTec Fleece Jacket, and Rev'it Rain Smock. Gloves are the same as on-road except I add a pair of Handup mountain biking gloves for hot weather technical riding. My off-road bike is a highly upgraded '22 G310GS with ~25,000 miles on it, including four BDRs (NE, MA, PA, and BH) and the Trans America Trail from Cape Hatteras NC to Port Orford OR to La Crescent MN. Once I have my R1300GS, I'll keep the G310GS for serious technical riding.

So, I'm sold on keeping the Receiver installed in my HLS. Now I have to remove the Receiver installed on my G310GS. One more task for the prep work I'm doing for this coming season.

Cheers.
JerryG

Picture 1 below shows that the HLS pocket is 6 inches side-to-side and 7.5 inches top-to-bottom.

Picture 2 below has the Receiver sitting on top of the HLS pocket.

Picture 3 below has the Receiver installed in the pocket with the Power In cable dangling outside the pocket.

Picture 4 below has both the Receiver and Power In cable all inside the pocket.

 

[crna59]

Cell phone's are too fragile to be a potential single point of failure. Do you also bring your heated gear controller in case of a cell phone problem?

The controller on the Tourmaster gear is a 4-way button attached to the gear!

 

[52184]

The controller on the Tourmaster gear is a 4-way button attached to the gear!

That looks like it would be difficult to get at underneath a 3/4 jacket like my Darien, unlike a controller mounted on dash or tankbag.

Best,
DeVern

 

[JerryG]

The controller on the Tourmaster gear is a 4-way button attached to the gear!

And I'll bet using your phone as a controller is much easier than using the 4-way button, but at least it's there for backup.

 

[crna59]

That looks like it would be difficult to get at underneath a 3/4 jacket like my Darien, unlike a controller mounted on dash or tankbag.

Best,
DeVern

I use it with my Astars Andes V3 and Tourmaster Transition jackets. Works fine...