Heated gear rant..

[mjfink420]

First, the good part; I recently got a Warm and Safe "Layer Shirt" and it's very, very nice under my winter riding jacket. It still has problems (why is the pocket so small that it BARELY holds the remote control?!), but it's better than the, well, basically entire Gerbing and California Heat closet of crap that I have.

Now.. The rant.

Why is so much heated gear such garbage!?!? Yes, it works, and it's warm. But allow me to break down some of the issues and how EASY it would be to fix them.

Let's start with the controller. First off, 12V powered or AA batteries with a read out for TEMPERATURE. Why on earth am I turning this knob up and down; put a thermostat in each piece of gear, let me set a temperature and figure out how much power to send to each area! We've had thermostats for a solid, IDK, 100 years now, and this stuff is right on your body, it would be trivial to put a small temp sensor in each piece.

Next, why am I wiring stuff in parallel and have 2 knobs (shouldn't have any knobs, as above, THERMOSTAT, but if you're not going to do that, 4 pieces of gear, 4 knobs!!) to control 4 heat areas?? Is there some radio frequency limit I'm not aware of that prevents sending that massive amount of data?? I mean, 30 years ago, sure, electronics were expensive; today?? Allow adjusting each piece independently, kind of seems obvious!

Round wires running against my body?? Someone please show Gerbring the "new fangled" flat cables that are available.. Well, everywhere.

Why on earth are we using a 4in combined plug to connect gloves to a jacket? Use a small connector that can tuck in easily guys, come on!

Armor! Calling a warm pair of gloves "Motorcycle" does not make them so. Where are the sliders, the Aramid, and the CE ratings on.. Well, all of it?!

I finally got my heated insoles comfortable in my boots, but, as an insole, it only heats the bottom. Collaborate with a company that makes boots and give me a good winter riding boot with integrated heat. Ski boots have had this for years, wrap the heat all the way around the foot inside the boot with an easy to access (and small) connector on the side. Again, ski boots have had this for years guys.

I have tons of heated gear, about 3 pairs of gloves, heated socks (GARBAGE), insoles (actually, I'm pretty happy with these, but they should be integrated into the boot), several jackets (all garbage), a liner I just got from Warm and Safe (MUCH better, but should have integrated armor pockets and a pocket big enough to comfortably hold the controller).

When I pick up most nice motorcycle gear, a good jacket for example, it takes me 30 minutes to just even see and understand all the nice things it offers, they are so well designed (from all the major/high end brands today); they are all good, it's more a style and comfort question. When I pick up heated gear, it takes me 30 seconds to figure out "yeah, this isn't well engineered" or "who can even use these" (heated socks come to mind).

Yesterday I was riding with my liner and gloves on one knob, my pants and feet on the other knob. I was about to pour water into my boot to cool off, legs were cold, body warm, hands on fire (I actually just pulled the plug to the gloves). This is SUCH a stupid problem, and it's not rocket science to figure it out and fix it. Go up the mountain, every 5 mins turning the heat up, down the mountain, every 5 minutes turning it down.

I mean, this could be so nice. Add some sensors, get on the bike, plug in and just ride comfortable. I feel like heated gear is stuck in the 80s (my Gerbring liner jacket looks like someone stole it from a ~1990 baseball team; 3 in elastic cuffs... Who does that anymore?!?).

<sigh>

Anyway, to add some value to this post, the stuff that I have that does work well:

Warm and Safe Heated Layer Shirt (don't even consider Gerbring here, if you want one, send me an IM and pay for shipping, I'll send you mine. You'll still feel ripped off when you get it).
https://www.warmnsafe.com/collections/12v-for-motorcycling-power-sports/products/mens-12v-heatlayer

Gerbring Hero Gloves:
https://gerbing.com/collections/12v...-gloves-12v-motorcycle?variant=44879385395491

These aren't bad. The wire needs to be flat, and needs better sliders, but it's not awful. Avoid the any of the California Heat gloves except their lightest model, I have them all, all but the lightest ones are pretty awful)

Gerbring Heated Insoles:
https://gerbing.com/collections/hea...orcycle-heated-insoles?variant=44879379759395

These are pretty good, but are thicker than a regular insole, if your boot is tight, you're gonna suffer. I eventually just bought another pair of boots, up a size, to make them work. No heat on the top, which means the boots need to be pretty heavy to keep warm (I use Daytonas).

Pants:
None, I have 2 pairs, they are both awful.


I just don't understand how there's been about 0 innovation in this space. I know I'm not the only idiot who rides in the 30's, please, someone, give us a full collection of good, armored heated gear and think a little outside the box!

<end rant>

 

[WalterK75]

Check this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpXzal5OF_w&pp=ygUSdGhlIGxpa2VhYmxlIHJpZGVy

 

[mjfink420]

Check this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpXzal5OF_w&pp=ygUSdGhlIGxpa2VhYmxlIHJpZGVy

Great.. Another brand to try!

Thank you though, there gear does look different than some of the other stuff out there.

 

[etiennelau]

It's hard to design these systems to meet each user's. Some people have poor circulation and therefore have very cold hands and feet. Others have good circulation and don't have cold hands and feet.

Then you have non-faired motorcycle vs full protection motorcycle.....

IMHO you buy/research what works for you and only you, rather than blaming the gear.

 

[mjfink420]

It's hard to design these systems to meet each user's. Some people have poor circulation and therefore have very cold hands and feet. Others have good circulation and don't have cold hands and feet.

Then you have non-faired motorcycle vs full protection motorcycle.....

IMHO you buy/research what works for you and only you, rather than blaming the gear.

That's entirely fair, but that also doesn't mean that thermostatic control wouldn't work. It's not that you shouldn't be able to control the heat level, in fact, one of my rants is that the heat levels are bonded in heated gear, if my legs are cold but my feet are hot, too bad, they are both on the same control knob.

The heat level should be thermostatic. Set it to 100 degrees, it adjusts the power to stay at 100 degrees. Set it to 90, it does the same. Right now we're adjusting the electricity flow to the item which means that if you ride through a lot of climates, you're going to need to fool with it a lot, at the top of the mountain I might need 70% electricity flow to be at 100 degree, at the bottom, I might need 30% to be at 100. And coming down, somewhere between 70 and 30%. What would make a lot of sense is to set a comfortable temp and have the electric flow modulate to maintain that temp (in other words, a thermostat).

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I have bought lots of heated gear and done a ton of research. I have a workable system now but even after probably close to 2K in heated gear purchases (and countless hours of research), it's still not that good. My heated skiing gear is light years beyond what I have for my motorcycle. We should expect better, especially when we have a limitless 12V source; heating skiing/hiking gear has to all be very low power and yet, I have Bluetooth control of each boot individually. And a boot that was built with heat in it, so it's a lot more comfortable than a janky sock with wires all over it. And has a battery system that's really nice, snapping directly into the boot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpdhRD8TuZk

You don't even know it when your wearing heated skiing gear (other than being warm). Motorcycle gear because of the limitless power could and should blow away heated skiing gear but, somehow we're stuck in with 80's technology.

In case anyone wonders, "Why not just used heated skiing gear if it's so good".. Well, a few reasons, none of it runs on 12V, the boots, obviously, wouldn't work on a motorcycle, and it's not really warm enough to deal with a constant 50-60MPH wind, it's designed for a few minute run then back into the warm (or at least moving slow to warm back up). Same with hiking gear, just not warm enough for real cold on a motorcycle. I do use my 7V heated hiking vest sometimes for milder days but it just don't have the power (or longevity) for a real cold weather day touring (4-6 hours on the bike).

 

[MCMXCIVRS]

I use a Warm and Safe heated jacket and have no issue with the temperature controller as it is. My biggest issue with it is that I might lose it since it does not directly connect to the wiring being a wireless remote.

Trying to incorporate some method of thermostatic control would be quite difficult I think. You'd need some sort of sensor to measure the temperature, but where should that measurement be taken? One area might be too cool another too warm for ideal comfort. The effects of wind and such are not constant or consistent causing variables for users based on too many possible situations. It would be an engineering nightmare and likely the cause of much unhappy feedback from users. Not really that hard to just turn the little dial up or down to suit your comfort. You're riding a motorcycle after all, if you want climate controlled comfort maybe you just need to take the car.

 

[drneo66]

The Neutrino Black Box does have the capability to control your heated gear via outside air temp, the previous version (Dispatch 1) did work well too.

I now understand why Aerostich hasn't gotten very fancy with their heated gear - a big beefy cord, plug in thermostat with one knob control, and windblocking built into the garment (as they expect you to layer it) - sometimes simpler is better when you really need to rely on it.

 

[mjfink420]

I use a Warm and Safe heated jacket and have no issue with the temperature controller as it is. My biggest issue with it is that I might lose it since it does not directly connect to the wiring being a wireless remote.

Trying to incorporate some method of thermostatic control would be quite difficult I think. You'd need some sort of sensor to measure the temperature, but where should that measurement be taken? One area might be too cool another too warm for ideal comfort. The effects of wind and such are not constant or consistent causing variables for users based on too many possible situations. It would be an engineering nightmare and likely the cause of much unhappy feedback from users. Not really that hard to just turn the little dial up or down to suit your comfort. You're riding a motorcycle after all, if you want climate controlled comfort maybe you just need to take the car.

LOL, I keep the wired component in my liner jacket, the wireless I found a mount (finally) for the bike that works OK, but you need to zip tie it in (Gerbring)... Another "WHY??", you know exactly the size of the controller, make a secure mount people!

I guess maybe a thermostat would be too hard; I still think it would be doable because it's relative, doesn't matter where you take the reading so long as wherever it is changes as the temperature adjusts. Honestly, you could probably use an external thermostat and speed sensor and do a pretty darn good job of it.

But even if we accept "too hard" for a thermostat, how about giving me control of all the pieces individually? Or using flat cables instead of round so I don't feel them? Or not using a 3" combined connector that seems it's always in the way? Or building a boot with heat built into it?

There are just so many areas for improvement that are easy to see, and I'm sure I'm missing 50 other ideas that are relatively easy to implement. It's really rare that I can do that with products anymore; most stuff is so highly engineered and well put together that, at best, I can say "Yeah, this would be nice, but I see why they didn't do it, too expensive, would annoy more people than it would help, etc". Since we're talking bikes here, I think about the engineering in my S1000XR; it's so thoughtfully designed; sure, there are personal things that I'd want, but it would be a compromise to do that, other people wouldn't want that. Can I make my bike better with a few zip ties? Ugh, no, I can't. But the Gerbring mount? Yeah, kind of need some zip ties if you don't want to lose the controller.

Oh well, guess room for improvement gives me stuff that I can look forward to/buy in the future. If everything was like our bikes; coming out of the box at 95% of "perfect", nothing in life left to look forward to?

 

[Omega Man]

Fairly sure all these “problems” could be cured other than the next problem it would generate……..The new heated gear would cost three times as much.

OM

 

[kbasa]

Fairly sure all these “problems” could be cured other than the next problem it would generate……..The new heated gear would cost three times as much.

OM

Agreed.

I think the other part is that if a thermostatic control was added, now you have a switching and control/logic unit that needs to be inserted into the lining itself, against the rider, if it wants to be useful.

Mostly, the jackets that I've used have been able to keep up on an unfaired bike, but only down into the low 40s or so, depending on layers. So the expense of a thermostat seems unnecessary. I basically ran it full blast until I get too warm, then I turned it down. I'm the thermostatic control unit.

Parallel wiring sounds like a set up issue on the bike itself, to me, or could be solved by velcroing two controllers back to back or something, so not insurmountable. Two controllers for two "zones".

Mostly, though, if it's 32F, that means that my potential for sliding down the road on my butt is high enough that the bike stays in the garage. Electric socks and boots? Electric gloves? If it's that cold, it sounds like it'd be exponentially more dangerous. When I lived in New England, I used to ride on days where the temps were above freezing. But riding to work in the morning, it wasn't unusual to come around a corner where yesterday's 40F had melted some snow and the runoff had frozen overnight into a nice sheet of glass. Your mileage may vary, but my desire to ride when it's cold has been greatly tempered by my desire to not wind up in a ditch.

 

[mjfink420]

Fairly sure all these “problems” could be cured other than the next problem it would generate……..The new heated gear would cost three times as much.

OM

LOL, yeah, another valid point. I wonder how big the market is for heated motorcycle gear? Perhaps it's a pretty thin market which would explain the lack of innovation. Winter hiking and skiing are probably much bigger markets so perhaps that's where all the investment is going?

I do have to think the market for heated motorcycle gear is probably going to skew higher income/older; shoot, in the summer I see a lot of kids running around on 600CC sport bikes without a stitch of armor or even a pair of pants! In the winter, I see mostly big/expensive cruisers, and, every now and then a sport bike with a guy decked in full leather. Not too many "no gear, all the time" seem to be willing to ride if they have to put on more than flip flops.

My ski boots were close to 1000 bucks, and you can spend quite a bit more if you want to go into the really high end/race stuff. Daytona's, kind of the top of the line for touring motorcycle boots, you'll struggle to spend more than ~600 bucks. Seems that there's room at the high end, but that could be an illusion. That said, BMW sells a lot of 20-30K motorcycles every year, you basically can't spend that much on skiing gear unless you go totally custom.

 

[mjfink420]

Agreed.

Mostly, the jackets that I've used have been able to keep up on an unfaired bike, but only down into the low 40s or so, depending on layers. So the expense of a thermostat seems unnecessary. I basically ran it full blast until I get too warm, then I turned it down. I'm the thermostatic control unit.

Parallel wiring sounds like a set up issue on the bike itself, to me, or could be solved by velcroing two controllers back to back or something, so not insurmountable. Two controllers for two "zones".

Mostly, though, if it's 32F, that means that my potential for sliding down the road on my butt is high enough that the bike stays in the garage. Electric socks and boots? Electric gloves? If it's that cold, it sounds like it'd be exponentially more dangerous. When I lived in New England, I used to ride on days where the temps were above freezing. But riding to work in the morning, it wasn't unusual to come around a corner where yesterday's 40F had melted some snow and the runoff had frozen overnight into a nice sheet of glass. Your mileage may vary, but my desire to ride when it's cold has been greatly tempered by my desire to not wind up in a ditch.

I try not to ride below 40 too, but I do a lot of mountain runs. Might be 50 at my house, 30 at the top of the mountain, then back to 50 20 minutes (of blissful carving) later. But no, I'm not leaving in freezing weather, my gripe with heated gear isn't that it's not warm enough, it's that it's clunky and gets in the way of just enjoying/concentrating on the ride. But I wear it a lot, instead of carrying changes of clothes, I generally go out with my heated gear, often turned off when I start, then, as the temp drops, I start my back/forth with the controller.

I considered getting two controllers and stacking them. That would probably work. But then I'd need two receivers in my pocket, each of which is pretty darn large. It would make the setup even more janky than it is today; it would get me the control I want, but I'd have so many wires running around.. Ugh, no, I want simplicity, what I'd really like would just be a single cable to the bike that splits out into 4 (each zone) and then an "on/off" switch that would hold some reasonable temp.

I could absolutely ride most of my winter stuff (I'm in SC, it doesn't get that cold) without heat. I did for years. Heat is much, much more comfortable though because you don't have to layer like you're heading into the Arctic. I generally ride in a T shirt, heated liner (long sleeve T shirt basically) and my jacket. One pair of thin socks in my boots, and, of course, my gloves. That's comfortable anywhere between around 65 all the way down to as cold as I'd ever want to ride, high 20's or so. And that's the value, it's one outfit that can take me touring in the mountains for an entire day without stopping to change several times and/or being cold/hot.

This might come down to "You're crazy, most people wouldn't consider that type of ride if they had perfect and free heated gear". Which may also explain why I have so many complaints, I use this stuff a LOT. Probably do 5-6000 miles a year in my heated gear, so things that might not bother someone using it every now and then drives me nuts. My heated insoles haven't been out of my boots since September (I did a tour on Skyline Dr and it was COLD some morning) and probably won't get pulled until ~April or so.

 

[crna59]

The best one that I have found is by Tourmaster Synergy BT Pro-Plus 12V. As an Instructor, I can ride to the class with it plugged into the bike and when I'm off the bike teaching, I have the battery... about the same size as my iPhone. To control heat.... just a button you press on EACH ITEM. There is also an App using BlueTooth with much finer adjustment!
I've had a battery work as long as 5.5hr, using the low/med setting. The connections to the gloves are small and can also be tucked into the zippered pocket when not in use. I'm teaching a 3-wheel class this weekend...... temps will be in the teens!!!

 

[mjfink420]

The best one that I have found is by Tourmaster Synergy BT Pro-Plus 12V. As an Instructor, I can ride to the class with it plugged into the bike and when I'm off the bike teaching, I have the battery... about the same size as my iPhone. To control heat.... just a button you press.... There is also an App with much finer adjustment!
I've had a battery work as long as 5.5hr, using the low/med setting. The connections to the gloves are small and can also be tucked into the zippered pocket when not in use. I'm teaching a 3-wheel class this weekend...... temps will be in the teens!!!

Thank you for that, that's a brand I'd never looked at before. Wonder if I can integrate it with what I already have, maybe split the 12V coming into the jacket, putting the jacket and gloves on their own controls and then replacing my heated insoles and pants with this gear and running straight 12V to them?

I'm after Bohn Body Armor to come up with some heated options; I wear them as my base layer on my legs, so it would be perfect if they would integrate heat. Wearing 3 pairs of pants (armor, heat, shell) doesn't sound like a good time. Guess could ride with armor in the outer pants, but I love how comfortable the Bohn stuff is as the base.

I saw a recommendation for Keis too:

https://keisapparel.com/

This looks like a better system for the gloves. They are armored/rated gloves and the connection between the jacket and gloves looks like a BIG improvement from my Gerbring/Warm and Safe setup.

 

[PoorUB]

I have been wearing heated gear for about twenty years. I have zero issues having to adjust it once in a while. Usually, once I hit the highway it might take two attempts to get it set where I want.

As for a thermostat and self regulation, how much do you want to pay? I would be willing to bet self regulation would add at least $100. I can deal with the simplicity and save the money.

 

[CaptCF]

I was a daily bike commuter year round in an area that sees below freezing temps for over 10 years so have had a bunch of heated gear. Same frustrations as you with regard to tradeoffs between protection, heat, waterproofing (or lack thereof in most heated gear) and reliability. Before Gerbing was acquired they had a lifetime (or near lifetime...I forget the wording) guarantee on the heating elements in gloves and jackets and I sent mine down to NC multiple times for repairs due to stuff not working (usually a jacket to glove connection or a connection inside one of the gloves). I probably averaged 1-2 repairs per season. Since then I think they have stopped that practice and the warranty is much more limited. In looking for something more akin to sportbike glove protection with heat (the holy grail apparently), I tried the Keis 502s about 4 years ago since they looked much more protective than any of the 3 old pairs of Gerbings I had been through up to that point. I ordered them from overseas and when I received them I found that the fit, finish and protection were definitely a step or three up from the Gerbing but they were not nearly as hot so I returned them. If I had to guess I'd say maybe 30-50% less heat output. Maybe their newer products are different. I also experimented with heated glove liners under touring and sport oriented gloves, but could never get a decent fit that didn't compromise dexterity so ultimately went back to the Gerbing heated gloves.

My saga ended when I stopped commuting in 2020, I uninstalled the pigtails, etc. from my bikes and put all my heated gear in the guest room closet. It hasn't been out since. Now if it's too cold for heated grips I stay home and do something else.

 

[mjfink420]

I have been wearing heated gear for about twenty years. I have zero issues having to adjust it once in a while. Usually, once I hit the highway it might take two attempts to get it set where I want.

As for a thermostat and self regulation, how much do you want to pay? I would be willing to bet self regulation would add at least $100. I can deal with the simplicity and save the money.

Personally? I'd pay double to have heated gear with the features described above.

In the grand scheme of motorcycle gear, even at double, it would barely put a dent in the gear that many of us have. A full Klim setup with a nice helmet and good communicator can easily push 2K. Add in some nice gloves and good carbon helmet, plenty of guys (especially those riding BMWs) out there with 3-4K in gear on them before they step out the door. A full suit of heated gear today, you'd have to work at it to spend 1000. <1500, comfortable, self regulating, control for all zones, I'm there.

 

[mjfink420]

Same frustrations as you with regard to tradeoffs between protection, heat, waterproofing (or lack thereof in most heated gear) and reliability. I probably averaged 1-2 repairs per season. Since then I think they have stopped that practice and the warranty is much more limited. In looking for something more akin to sportbike glove protection with heat (the holy grail apparently), I tried the Keis 502s about 4 years ago since they looked much more protective than any of the 3 old pairs of Gerbings I had been through up to that point. I ordered them from overseas and when I received them I found that the fit, finish and protection were definitely a step or three up from the Gerbing but they were not nearly as hot so I returned them. If I had to guess I'd say maybe 30-50% less heat output. Maybe their newer products are different. I also experimented with heated glove liners under touring and sport oriented gloves, but could never get a decent fit that didn't compromise dexterity so ultimately went back to the Gerbing heated gloves.

Well, at least I'm not the only one. Gloves and boots are really troublesome; I'm using California Heat gloves now; they are comfortable and warm, but.. If I have a fall.. Yeah, I have absolutely 0 confidence they would be much better than wearing a set of latex gloves for protection. My non-heated gloves are in a different world for protection, carbon in all the impact areas, sliders, etc. Boots are OK, I run heated insoles in my Daytonas, no worry about protection there, but that setup just kind of stinks; I can feel the wire sometimes, snaking the wire through my kevlar pants was a nightmare (I took up sewing and made a pair of kevlar riding jeans specific for the purpose with the wires run through the fabric; again, it works, but it's janky). I'm actually happy with my jacket/base layer setup now.. Well, mostly, it's comfortable and fits well, layers easily, doesn't look like it was stolen from a kid collecting retro baseball gear, but the pocket isn't big enough for the Gerbring remote control to fit easily (which is stupid large). I have a panel jack on my bike; even there there's room for improvement; breakaway cable (I built my own), a keeper so the wire doesn't come out when getting into more aggressive riding (again, built my own).

I'm really struggling to think of any piece of my heated setup that I think is really well engineered/good. My Warm and Safe liner is probably the closest to "good", every other piece I have real, fundamental problems with. And I, like you, have a huge collection; California Heat, Warm and Safe, Gerbring. I have 4 sets of heated gloves!! 4 sets, and I don't love any of them! I have 3 sets of non-heated, and I LOVE 2 of them. I have 3 jackets, Klim, Dinaise and Scorpion; each has their individual strengths, but all of them are really, really nice pieces of gear; more personal preference and riding temp/style than "this is garbage, that is great". I probably have 5-6 pairs of jeans and 2 sets of textiles, all good to great. I wear them all depending on my ride and never this "this is garbage", even my cheaper jeans are still in the rotation, they are old and less protective, but they are fine for some rides or when the other stuff is dirty.

It's really only heated gear that I have a collection of stuff I've bought that is, frankly, near unusable it's so bad. Heated socks take the cake, who could wear those things??? Feels like you wrapped your foot in 12 gauge wire, duct taped it, then tried to put on your motorcycle boots. A few pairs of gloves, none of which I have any confidence would protect me in a wreck, and some so bulky and unwieldy that they are again, basically unusable for a motorcycle.

Maybe I'll give those Keis gloves a try. Wish they had local distribution. And I can already see the problem coming with them if they're not really warm; refer back to the "individual controls" part of the rant. Gotta tie them to another circuit so now my feet or body will be on fire trying to get my hands warm!?

It's a rant thread, I warned you guys in the title. Ranting commences!!

Oh, and for those who don't want to go into heated gear but like to ride in the cold, I can't recommend Bohn armor enough. It's SO much more comfortable (and protective) than putting all the heft into your riding pants and it's pretty warm, I don't have heated pants because.. Well, because I loathe most of my heated gear, but more to the point, I really don't need heat on my pants with the Bohn winter tights and a heavier pair of riding jeans or textiles over them.

Edited to add... And I didn't even get into reliability. That's a whole different rant thread. I've been through 2 remote controllers (actually 3, but one was my fault, dropped off the bike because, at the time, nobody made a good holder for one).. On my 3rd pair of insoles. The gloves that I "like" but would provide similar protection to covering my hands in talcum powder, 2nd pair. Jacket liners I've never worn out, but that's because I keep looking for one that isn't awful (We'll see how long my liner lasts, it's good enough that I'm going to use it a lot, I don't have high hopes, but not fair to throw stones at them just yet). Had to replace the panel jack on my bike once (which is a WHOLE lot of fun to route the wire inside the fairings).

Compare that to my oldest (~10 years) Scorpion jacket and Covert Evo jeans; they are basically still perfect. Everything works, shoot, the jacket was a "weathered look" leather and it's held up fantastic. And that's not some super-premium brand, just a relatively middle of the road motorcycle jacket. Even my first helmet, again, around 10 years old now, looks and operates (it's a modular) just like the day I bought it and has ~50K miles on it. And not at all a premium brand, just a middle of the road modular helmet.

 

[CaptCF]

Unless things have changed nobody in the states carries Keis. I ordered them from sportsbikeshop.co.uk and although they did take them back the overseas shipping, restocking, etc. really ate into the refund. The thing about heated gloves that really left me scratching my head (other than the lack of comparable protection to non-heated gloves) is the lack of waterproof heated options. There are all sorts of Goretex and other membrane type waterproof gloves available unheated, but the minute you start looking at heated gloves there are almost no waterproof options. Hence the Keis experiment but we know how that turned out...

Edit - found my old review from 2019 on the Keis.

I have a pair of 502s sitting on my desk right now so I figured I'd post since I didn't find much information on Keis when I initially decided to order them (i'm in the states and Keis doesn't have a presence here so I had to order from the UK). I really wanted an upgrade from my existing Gerbing gloves (not current generation - about 5 years old) and the Keis ticked all the boxes my current Gerbings don't (waterproof, better styling, carbon knuckles/scaphoid, integrated heat controller vs. extra crap, etc.). I've had 4 pairs of Gerbing gloves over the years and the Keis is the first heated apparel I have tried from another manufacturer. The gloves themselves are very nice and much closer to high end motorcycle gloves than my Gerbings. Not quite Dainese/RevIt, but definitely much further in that direction than the Gerbings. The heat controller works great too. The wire is a smaller gauge and running just the Y cable is a much cleaner setup than the Y cable plus the external Gerbing heat controller that I have to wear on the side of my jacket. The only problem I had was with the heat output and that's why they are on my desk waiting to be RMA'd and I rode to work in my old Gerbings today. They just don't get hot enough for me. I'm probably on the wimpy side so they may work fine for you, but I found that they don't put out as much heat as my old Gerbings. They probably would be fine for temps in the 2 to 4 range, but I routinely ride in the -4 range and occasionally as low as -12/-14. In those ranges the Gerbings on high plus heated grips (BMW or Oxford) on high coupled with Barkbuster Storms will make commuting just bearable for me so I knew the Keis wouldn't work for my application. It could be I got a dud pair or I didn't give them long enough of a test so hopefully others will post with their experiences. I really, really wanted to like them because they beat my Gerbings by a mile in every other feature except the one I need most - heat output.

 

[fig32]

FYI Macna makes heated gear that has a Bluetooth app so you can individually control everything. May not get as hot but has a lot of flexibility. Limited but some pieces available in the US.
I have the same warm and safe plus garbing glove combo and agree with all you have posted. Those two are the best so far but I am still searching.