Disappointed and Discouraged in BMW

[bc1100s]

If one waits long enough, every posting eventually turns into an oil thread.

 

[beemerphile]

If one waits long enough, every posting eventually turns into an oil thread.

And some threads get so bad that it is a welcome relief.

 

[jammess]

If one waits long enough, every posting eventually turns into an oil thread.

Good point.

One thing I would really like to know is what change did BMW make to apparently halt the self destructiveness of the final drives. You just don't see posts in the wethead forum about FD failures even as the miles pile up on these models in spite of their single sided swing-arms. No doubt the wet clutch ended many of the drive train issues but having an integrated with engine transmission would make me nervous what with BMW's history of transmission problems. I mean the cost to split the case should a transmission problem occur would be breathtaking.

 

[beemerphile]

..I mean the cost to split the case should a transmission problem occur would be breathtaking.

Same deal if you lose an alternator stator out of warranty. That would scare me more than a transmission issue.

 

[lmo1131]

I guess my question is, "If freakin' Ural can keep manufacturing a seventy year old airhead, and manage to sell it in California (of all states), why can't BMW manufacture a new 247 based machine?"

All this new iron is impressive, but I wouldn't own one due to the complexity of its systems.

 

[bc1100s]

I guess my question is, "If freakin' Ural can keep manufacturing a seventy year old airhead, and manage to sell it in California (of all states), why can't BMW manufacture a new 247 based machine?"

Please, lets not drag BMW down to the level of Ural. That's like comparing FIAT with Lada in the early '80s - both cars but only one made cars that worked reasonably well on a continuous basis.

 

[beemerphile]

I guess my question is, "If freakin' Ural can keep manufacturing a seventy year old airhead, and manage to sell it in California (of all states), why can't BMW manufacture a new 247 based machine?"

All this new iron is impressive, but I wouldn't own one due to the complexity of its systems.

Because they couldn't sell enough of them to make a business. Besides, we haven't worn out the ones they already built yet.

 

[jammess]

I guess my question is, "If freakin' Ural can keep manufacturing a seventy year old airhead, and manage to sell it in California (of all states), why can't BMW manufacture a new 247 based machine?"

All this new iron is impressive, but I wouldn't own one due to the complexity of its systems.

I kind of agree but the non-premium package equipped R1200RT without electronic suspension appeals to me. It seems to me that auto and now motorcycle manufacturers are relying mostly on electronic whistles and bells to sell new products. In other words just gizmo related so-called advancements. Example: Some people think LCD gauge displays are somehow an improvement over analog displays when in reality LCD gauges are just cheaper to produce and don't convey anymore usable info than do their analog counterparts. I could go on and on and on and........

My gizmo inclined neighbor recently bought a new FJR with digital LCD displays. He then complains to the dealer that something is wrong with his coolant temperature digital readout because the display is completely unsteady and is always rapidly changing. The dealer has to check with the mothership. I laugh and tell him there is nothing wrong at all with the display and that's what you get with an un-damped digital temperature display. The thermostat is opening and closing as he rides on a cool day and the temperature sensor location is the same as it was in the older model bike with the analog display so he must live with it. He wasn't happy but oh-well he'll get over it.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

I kind of agree but the non-premium package equipped R1200RT without electronic suspension appeals to me. It seems to me that auto and now motorcycle manufacturers are relying mostly on electronic whistles and bells to sell new products. In other words just gizmo related so-called advancements. Example: Some people think LCD gauge displays are somehow an improvement over analog displays when in reality LCD gauges are just cheaper to produce and don't convey anymore usable info than do their analog counterparts. I could go on and on and on and........

My gizmo inclined neighbor recently bought a new FJR with digital LCD displays. He then complains to the dealer that something is wrong with his coolant temperature digital readout because the display is completely unsteady and is always rapidly changing. The dealer has to check with the mothership. I laugh and tell him there is nothing wrong at all with the display and that's what you get with an un-damped digital temperature display. The thermostat is opening and closing as he rides on a cool day and the temperature sensor location is the same as it was in the older model bike with the analog display so he must live with it. He wasn't happy but oh-well he'll get over it.

Everything is laced w/ more and more technology from your toaster oven thru your motorcycle, your car, and everything else right up thru and including Boeing 787 Dreamliner, and this trend will only continue at an ever-increasing pace you can count on it. As well, an ultra-high level of reliability has accompanied this else you would not see these technologies rampant in cars, planes, bikes, home appliances, and everywhere else. My 8 y/o 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid, full of all sorts of technology, has 115K miles now, and zero failures of any kind. My '16 RTW has 28K miles and has had zero failures of any kind.

IMO LCD digital displays of speed are absolutely superior to analog gauges from a user POV: a large single digital display of MPH is quicker to interpret than an analog gauge will ever be, especially when you don't want to avert your eyes from the road for long. I welcome HUDs which improve on that even more. Everything on my RTW I use regularly and really appreciate them all!

 

[129654]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Agreed and i'd rather fly a modern fighter with its glass cockpit and advanced technology into combat over a 60's/70's era F4 Phantom with its "steam gauge" instrumentation and by today's standards, low tech capabilities but the luddites will always disagree

 

[AKsuited]

All this new iron is impressive, but I wouldn't own one due to the complexity of its systems.

And I wouldn't own old iron because I don't get much opportunity for epic road trips, and I don't want the hassle of breaking down. In simple terms, I trust new iron more than old iron.

 

[oldcamper]

And I wouldn't own old iron because I don't get much opportunity for epic road trips, and I don't want the hassle of breaking down. In simple terms, I trust new iron more than old iron.

Maybe, but solid engineering and tight manufacturing process control are what provide reliability, not modern features.
Whizzy technology and shiny new gizmos are mostly marketing driven to differentiate the product and increase profit.

Just about any 30-40 year old liquid-cooled Honda (GL1000, CX500, CN250) can still be considered fairly reliable if it hasn't been thrashed.

.

 

[jammess]

And I wouldn't own old iron because I don't get much opportunity for epic road trips, and I don't want the hassle of breaking down. In simple terms, I trust new iron more than old iron.

Yeah, yeah...all well and good but if I'm going to have a break down out in the hinterland I'd much rather have it on an old airhead than I would one of these high tech wonders. My 10 year old Ford Escape with 60K miles is still on the original spark plugs which is great and is a good example of new technology making life better. What I'm opposed to is gizmo technology. There's a difference, think about it. For the record I don't own a cell phone and I don't have satellite or cable TV. Who was it sang the song Fifty Seven Channels and Nuthin' On ? I should be ashamed of myself since I'm a retired telecom specialist of all things. That's maybe why I see the futility in so much of this stuff.

Oh, and won't it just be great when my refrigerator starts talking to me. NOT!!

 

[ncpbmw1953]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Agreed and i'd rather fly a modern fighter with its glass cockpit and advanced technology into combat over a 60's/70's era F4 Phantom with its "steam gauge" instrumentation and by today's standards, low tech capabilities but the luddites will always disagree

I think a good part of luddite psychology stems from 'change-fatigue', not wanting to have to learn anything new, especially if you're over 40 or 50. This is understandable in today's 'Age of Accelerations': read Thomas Friedman's, Thank You for Being Late.

And then there is the belief that by keeping things as simple as possible the risk of a bad outcome is significantly lower. But that is somewhat spurious IMO w/ today's design and manufacturing prowess and this will only continue improving at a and faster pace going forward, where complexity goes up along w/ quality such that a more complex machine today will have greater total reliability than the less complex machines of yesteryear.

 

[omega man]

Seems like a lot of complexity came with emission standards. The do-dads, perhaps one upsmanship run amuck.
OM

 

[akbeemer]

Would it not be interesting to be able to compare owner satisfaction surveys from owners in 1988 to owners in 2018? And, making the bold assumption that motorcycles will still exist on our highways, will there be a thriving group of owners that are still able to maintain and enjoy riding their Hexheads/Waterheads? Don't underestimate the wisdom of luddites.

 

[AKsuited]

Yeah, yeah...all well and good but if I'm going to have a break down out in the hinterland I'd much rather have it on an old airhead than I would one of these high tech wonders.

Yeah, and while I made it to Salt Lake City and back just fine on my wethead, a friend of mine was stranded for four days waiting on parts for his airhead on his way to SLC.

 

[jammess]

Yeah, and while I made it to Salt Lake City and back just fine on my wethead, a friend of mine was stranded for four days waiting on parts for his airhead on his way to SLC.

Oh jeez Louise, you can always find an example to reinforce your point of view and someone else with the opposite viewpoint can do the same and shoot you down time and time again. Proves absolutely nothing, just another pointless discussion. Out of curiosity how old is your friend's airhead and how many miles has she gone as compared to your new wethead? Now, tell the truth, lol..lol..

 

[daboo]

That's why you should buy a GS of any vintage. ...Never see a picture in a magazine without a full support crew. You'd never have to worry about being stranded and alone.

Chris

 

[AKsuited]

Oh jeez Louise, you can always find an example to reinforce your point of view and someone else with the opposite viewpoint can do the same and shoot you down time and time again. Proves absolutely nothing, just another pointless discussion. Out of curiosity how old is your friend's airhead and how many miles has she gone as compared to your new wethead? Now, tell the truth, lol..lol..

Question: what vintage car do you drive? It is without question that modern cars are far superior in reliability than those of 30 or more years ago despite being "more complex." Would you really want to go back to distributors with centrifugal weights to adjust advance, and points to set and which wear and change timing? If newer cars are better, why wouldn't newer bikes be better?