•  

    Welcome! You are currently logged out of the forum. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please LOG IN!

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the benefits of membership? If you click here, you have the opportunity to take us for a test ride at our expense. Enter the code 'FORUM25' in the activation code box to try the first year of the MOA on us!

     

Why I chose not to replace my 2021 R1250 GSAdventure after 65,700 miles and over 140,000 BMW miles

brownie0486 said:
TSE and HOG [ Yamaha and Harley ] are both on a stock exchange. Seems buying either's stock would be investing. 1.4% growth rate for the next 5 years is NOT a fair ROI. I'll stand by my original post, IF bmw were traded on the exchange, I'd be sitting on the sidelines and NOT an investor at that projected growth rate.

Buying a motor is an investment with a poor to negative rate of return.
Click to expand...
1.4% growth rate is merely number of units, not profits nor ROI. And the whole discussion ignores what may happen on the car side of the company. Or the lawn mowers and leaf blowers.
 
PGlaves said:
1.4% growth rate is merely number of units, not profits nor ROI. And the whole discussion ignores what may happen on the car side of the company. Or the lawn mowers and leaf blowers.
Click to expand...
210,408 motorcycles worldwide in 2024. 1.4% means about another 3K motors a year or about 15K more than 210,408=225,408. This is just motorcycles. 2023 saw bmw's best sales year at 2,253,835 for all vehicles including ev's and the M division.

15K over the next 5 years worldwide. In 2024, the United States accounted for 17,272 of BMW's record-breaking 210,408 global motorcycle sales. Now lets add the 1.4% to that number and we can expect another 242 motorcycles in 2025 divided between 145 dealers in the US. That seems to suggest 1.66 added motors per dealer on average.

I don't believe that's a healthy outlook for US sales on bmw motors. In contrast, Yamaha is expected to sell 69,230 motorcycles in the US this year.
 
Last edited:
r0ckrat said:
BMW is on the exchange... And I should have invested in them a while ago.

Forward Dividend & Yield 6.00 (7.87%)
Click to expand...
Highest stock price in the last 10 years was feb 2015 at 126.60. As of feb 11 2025, it's listed at 79.20. I'd think if one was interested in investing in bmw stock, buying as shares at a low as it is today might be the investment opportunity.

Having bough it in february 2015, one would have lost about 37% of their investment. As I mentioned, I'd not be a buyer of bmw, now for two reasons. If tariffs rise by 25% as they are expected to today, it's going to hurt their bottom line when people aren't willing to pay 25K for a bike that was worth 20K just months before.
 
Good on you John, the more people who make this decision the more likely companies are to roll back policies like this. Honestly, I don't understand it at all, the service manual exists, there can't be that many people who really want to tear their 30K motorcycle into pieces, why not let the small percentage who does have access to the right materials to do it effectively? I get they are trying to protect dealer business, but.. Come on, how much are we really talking about at the margins here? I'm a pretty handy guy, I have a few motorcycles and a host of other machines around the property that need care. I do about 80% of the maintenance of everything myself but when it gets "deep", I call in a dealer. I have a tire changer, a motorcycle lift and barn full of tools; I'm sure I could do a valve job (with the manual, of course) on a S1000, but not for me even with the manual, that's a job that I just don't care to learn how to do.

Giving access to the service manual/ECU (another pet peeve, oil life monitors that can't be reset by the owner, or ECUs that are locked up so tight that you can't get info out of them to repair your machine) should be mandated if you want to sell a machine in the US. John Deere is one of the worst offenders on this, forcing farmers (who, like me, often have fully built out shops) to hire out all the service on their machine because it's so locked down that you simply can't do it without the computer (which is unavailable for purchase, of course!).
 
mjfink420 said:
Good on you John, the more people who make this decision the more likely companies are to roll back policies like this. Honestly, I don't understand it at all, the service manual exists, there can't be that many people who really want to tear their 30K motorcycle into pieces, why not let the small percentage who does have access to the right materials to do it effectively? I get they are trying to protect dealer business, but.. Come on, how much are we really talking about at the margins here? I'm a pretty handy guy, I have a few motorcycles and a host of other machines around the property that need care. I do about 80% of the maintenance of everything myself but when it gets "deep", I call in a dealer. I have a tire changer, a motorcycle lift and barn full of tools; I'm sure I could do a valve job (with the manual, of course) on a S1000, but not for me even with the manual, that's a job that I just don't care to learn how to do.

Giving access to the service manual/ECU (another pet peeve, oil life monitors that can't be reset by the owner, or ECUs that are locked up so tight that you can't get info out of them to repair your machine) should be mandated if you want to sell a machine in the US. John Deere is one of the worst offenders on this, forcing farmers (who, like me, often have fully built out shops) to hire out all the service on their machine because it's so locked down that you simply can't do it without the computer (which is unavailable for purchase, of course!).
Click to expand...
It appears that the AMA is taking another bite at the "Right to Repair" apple in DC this year. Hard to tell how the wind will blow with this new congress.
 
Maybe BMW will come around.

Genuine Honda service manuals for new Goldwings are still available in printed form for around $130. I bought one a few years ago. It came in a very nice plastic binder and was heavy! I prefer printed manuals as they are easier to reference and one can make notes in them.

I’m considering buying a new DL650 and have verified Genuine Suzuki service manuals are still readily available in print form for all Suzuki products. The DL650 printed service manual is over 600 pages long and costs $90. I’ve purchased Suzuki manuals before but they are not as nicely bound as the Honda ones.


Like others here, I do most bike maintenance myself and consider a service manual necessary to do the job correctly. I simply won’t buy a bike that requires servicing at a dealer.
 
I too decided to go smaller, and back to my roots. Traded in the rt1200 for a new f900GS , and a very good decision, the bike is amazing. I didn't worry about the no manual, the ADV community is so resourceful that I knew someone would know what to do. And I was right. Trust in the membership is a strong quality that this organization has, most of us grew up in a can do environment ,as kids we had to invent fun. It didn't come on screen or phone, information wasn't at your fingertips. I believe that is why we chose to explore and choose the wild side, fear of getting dirty didn't cross our minds, and our early machines resembled "MAD MAX". I don't blame BMW Motorad for lack of manuals so they can save money to put into R&D or their pockets, so they keep building great machines, look at KTM. So I'll continue to believe in me and our friends at BMW and our community ,because we know how to invent fun. John may you have new adventures on your new steed and I look forward to new routes being posted, I'm glad your upright.
 
crows123 said:
I believe that is why we chose to explore and choose the wild side, fear of getting dirty didn't cross our minds, and our early machines resembled "MAD MAX".
Click to expand...

Several years ago I purchased an R1200CL that had been crashed and had all the luggage destroyed... Here's a picture of one of my "repairs". :ROFLMAO:

1741803243289.png
 
oldcamper said:
Maybe BMW will come around.

Genuine Honda service manuals for new Goldwings are still available in printed form for around $130. I bought one a few years ago. It came in a very nice plastic binder and was heavy! I prefer printed manuals as they are easier to reference and one can make notes in them.

I’m considering buying a new DL650 and have verified Genuine Suzuki service manuals are still readily available in print form for all Suzuki products. The DL650 printed service manual is over 600 pages long and costs $90. I’ve purchased Suzuki manuals before but they are not as nicely bound as the Honda ones.


Like others here, I do most bike maintenance myself and consider a service manual necessary to do the job correctly. I simply won’t buy a bike that requires servicing at a dealer.
Click to expand...
I just bought an R1250 manual from overseas. eBay provides. It was $40 and comes on a USB.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top