Disappointed and Discouraged in BMW

[oldcamper]

in his article Fred says.
"Thinking back to the 1980, I could count on something going wrong with any bike every 5,000 to 7,000 miles rather than 110,000. The old bikes may have been a lot easier to fix when they went balls-up, but they also crapped-out a lot more often.
E.

I don't know what Fred was referring to but there many examples of early '80's bikes with exceptional reliability. Honda Gl1100s, Kawasaki Voyagers, Kawasaki Concours, and even the CX500 are but a few known for running a very long time with minimal problems.

 

[BC1100S]

I don't know what Fred was referring to but there many examples of early '80's bikes with exceptional reliability. Honda Gl1100s, Kawasaki Voyagers, Kawasaki Concours, and even the CX500 are but a few known for running a very long time with minimal problems.

I noticed you didn't list any BMWs.

 

[oldcamper]

I noticed you didn't list any BMWs.

Well, the K100 came out about '84 or so so that counts too.

I've owned too many airheads to consider them uber-reliable. Easily repairable, yes.

 

[BlueWaterCooled]

I noticed you didn't list any BMWs.

I had an R60/5 that went 200,000 miles with nothing but tire, spark plug and oil changes.

(Note: A sample size with N = 1, does not tell you anything about a bike in general.)

 

[oldcamper]

I had an R60/5 that went 200,000 miles with nothing but tire, spark plug and oil changes.

(Note: A sample size with N = 1, does not tell you anything about a bike in general.)

Back in the day a guy named Fred Tausch claimed to have put over 600,000 miles on his R60/5.
Although I rode mine to both coasts (Lake Placid in '83!), it needed a timing chain and transmission bearings before 60K.

Really enjoyed that bike, though ...

 

[cabnfvr]

Back in the day a guy named Fred Tausch claimed to have put over 600,000 miles on his R60/5....

Fred with the home overlooking the Tennessee river? Always wore the same dark blue pants? Nice guy and seeing him and his bike so often back then I have no reason to doubt the mileage. I've got slides of Fred someplace back at the house. Many years ago, many memories.

BTW, forget being discouraged with BMW. Has anyone noticed the OP referenced LL Bean's lifetime return policy? They've cancelled that.

 

[Friedle]

The Fred Tausch I knew with over 600,000 miles on his R 60/5 lived in the Boston area. He was famous for riding year round but was really not big on upkeep. His bike survived mainly thru a thick crust of oil on almost surface of the machine. Last I saw of the bike it was a part of Bob Henig's (Bob's BMW) museum. Fred was a longtime member of the Yankee Beemers and is greatly missed.

Friedle

 

[wbrownell9]

It isn't so much having to learn new "technology" it's constantly having to RE-learn it every time a new piece of replacement equipment is introduced. My BIGGEST pet-peeve ... passwords; how many do we all have to keep recorded somewhere, and HOW OFTEN DO WE HAVE TO FRK'N CHANGE THEM (no "repeats" allowed). And even then I have to receive a text message on my phone every time I want to access my online bank account using my desktop computer.

Apologies for the topic drift, but...
View attachment 66215

Use a password manager. I use LastPass, but there are others. It's another damn thing to learn, they don't work perfectly because some sites go out of their way to defeat them, and they're not free. But they work 90% of the time, you only have to remember one password - the one to the password manager which should be as long and as strong as you can make it. They generate random passwords to any level of complexity (tick the boxes - mixed case? numbers? special characters? Limited to 100 characters max, though...) and you have all of your passwords securely available anywhere you go.

 

[wbrownell9]

I have 84K on my 2016 wethead. Zero problems. Eventually something expensive will break and I'll decide then whether to fix it or let it go. In the meantime Hermy's gets my money to keep it running.

It was fun reading the "POS cars I have owned" section of this thread. '63 VW Beetle with the killer 40hp engine and no defroster! First year they put gas gages in them, before that they had reserve valves just like a carburated motorcycle. And windshield washers powered by the spare tire. '74 Vega with the three speed manual. The gear ratios were so badly chosen it was basically a 4 speed transmission with no 3rd gear. At least they'd solved the overheating/head warping issues by then. Fiat 124 Sport Coupe! I got this after the Vega was T-boned (my fault) and was blown away by its 1.6 liter DOHC engine. Which I ended up rebuilding after a piston broke at the wrist pin. Ford Pinto! A friend had one, even got rear-ended in it but it did't burst into flames. Neighbor had a Corvair Monza convertible. Like every Corvair ever built it leaked oil.

Good times.

 

[jconway607]

Neighbor had a Corvair Monza convertible. Like every Corvair ever built it leaked oil. Good times.

Hey, now! I like Corvairs! I've never owned one, but they always seemed like a good practical design, (sharing a lot with the lowly Beetle). And just as a note: I went to a very prestigious car show (Stan Hywet) last year. Mingling among the Duesenburgs and Ferraris was.... a long row of nicely restored Corvairs. I had to smile. I guess those guys are having the last laugh. They did seem to be a rather lighthearted group.

 

[1074]

Fred's ride

The Fred Tausch I knew with over 600,000 miles on his R 60/5 lived in the Boston area. He was famous for riding year round but was really not big on upkeep. His bike survived mainly thru a thick crust of oil on almost surface of the machine. Last I saw of the bike it was a part of Bob Henig's (Bob's BMW) museum. Fred was a longtime member of the Yankee Beemers and is greatly missed.

Friedle

Yep! Met Fred at the National in Fredricksburg. You could hear that clap-trap bike coming from a good distance. I'd be afraid to ride it around the block, let alone from Mass. to Texas. Maintenance and care were not his forte.

 

[beemerphile]

Fred's R60 was an overloaded short wheelbase bike. Legend says it should have flicked him off into the trees in a fierce tank-slapper long before it acquired that many miles.

 

[kingrj52]

I'm the 2nd owner of a 2006 R1200RT. I bought it in August 2014, with a little over 42,000 miles on it. In that time, I've had two catastrophic failures.

The first was in October, when the fuel pump started to leak, blowing gasoline all over my left leg. This was subject to a safety recall, and it was repaired at Garcia Moto in Raleigh at no cost to me.

The second was a major engine failure, not even a month after the previous repair. I was cruising down a road, doing 60 mph in 6th gear, when I heard a clatter and the engine seized. I was able to keep the bike under control and navigate safely to the shoulder. I didn't realize until the next day that my knees were bruised from where I was thrown suddenly into the fairing. A less experienced rider could easily have lost control and sustained more damage to the bike and, most importantly, to himself.

I'm a conservative rider. I've never been hard on my cycles, even as a young man. By all accounts, the previous owner was the same way. So this is not a case of some kind of abuse coming home to roost.

I had the bike towed to Garcia Moto, where they found that one of the exhaust valves had come apart, pieces of which had fallen into the cylinder. The technician could see holes in the piston, for instance. They suggested, rightly I believe, that rather than try to repair the damage, that I purchase a good used engine and have them install it. It cost $750 for an engine, with warranty, from Rubber Side Up (great guys to work with), and just under $2000 for Garcia Moto to install it (they did some other maintenance while they were in there, like replacing the timing belt.)

Jon Ross, the service manager, called a BMW Motorrad representative to find out whether BMW might take on some part of the cost of repair. We realize that it is out of warranty and I'm not the first owner. We weren't asking for them to pick up the whole tab. We just thought they might want to do the stand-up thing and help out in some fashion.

He was told that, if we could tear the engine apart and determine the exact cause of failure, then BMW might reimburse some part of the expense. However, tearing the engine apart would be at considerable cost to me, only raising the price tag of the whole venture, nullifying any benefit from whatever amount BMW might contribute unless it was remarkably and unexpectedly generous. Nor was there any guarantee that there would be any reimbursement, regardless of what an examination of the engine might find.

Frankly, this whole thing has been hugely discouraging. This is the third BMW I've owned. I have previously had a 1976 R75/6, and a 1980 R100RT. I sold the RT when I bought the current bike. At this point, it would have been vastly cheaper to have had it completely restored. It only had 82,000 miles on it and had nothing like the kind of problems I've had with the '06. Other than typical age-related maintenance, it was a peach.

I've ridden bikes since the late 60s. I've owned Hondas (including a Gold Wing), Yamahas, a couple of Harleys. I've ridden from coast to coast twice. I've stuck with Beemers ever since getting the R75 back in 1986 because I like everything about them. I've always prided myself on their reliability. How many times have I made comments like "80,000 miles? It's a BMW! It's barely broken in! I expect to get 250,000 miles with no more than standard maintenance!"
That used to be true. Think of all the airheads that are still going strong.

So: I get the more modern bike, and have two major disasters within a few months. After getting the bike back from Garcia Moto, I decided to write a letter to BMW Motorrad USA, just to let them know how unhappy I am about this situation. I didn't ask for anything. It was just to get it off my chest. Then someone called from Customer Relations. We talked. I answered questions. He talked to someone else, who then came on the line and told me that they woujldn't do anything because it was out of warranty and I am not the first owner.

You know what? I didn't ask them for anything. They called me. If they weren't going to do something to show that they stand behind their product, then why did they waste my time? It just made me feel lousy all over again. If this is what they consider good customer relations, I've got news for them: when your machine has put my life at risk twice in less than a month, and you think you can just utter meaningless words in soothing tones and that will make everything all right, then you must think that the BMW market is full of half-wits.

My faith in BMW is shaken to its foundations. I fear that they have put technical wizardry ahead of plain old reliability. Any reasonable response would have warmed my heart and satisfied me that, in fact, BMW Motorrad is still the company I always thought it was.

Compare this experience with one my friend had with the Ruger firearms company. He had a problem with one of their rifles. They repaired it at no cost to him. They have no warranty at all. They just stand behind their products.

Or L.L. Bean, with their lifetime no-questions-asked policy.

Two catastrophic failures on a BMW with under 50,000 miles on the clock. They should be ashamed, and eager to do something to retain their reputation. They blew the chance.

Maybe someday I'll get over it. Truly, I still want to believe in BMW as I always have, and to accept that I just had bad luck with one of their bikes. At this moment, it's hard to believe I will ever buy another. I could have bought a brand-new Kawasaki Versys 1000LT for what I've got in this 2006 R1200RT. BMW ought to be thinking about that.

Sorry for your bad luck...I know you are upset and I would be also but I gotta tell you that if you had ever owned a KTM or several as I have...you would love BMW reliability! LOL!

 

[crucian]

And just as a note: I went to a very prestigious car show (Stan Hywet) last year. Mingling among the Duesenburgs and Ferraris was.... a long row of nicely restored Corvairs. I had to smile. I guess those guys are having the last laugh. They did seem to be a rather lighthearted group.

Lighthearted? I think you mean Lightheaded from the heater introducing carbon monoxide into the cabin.

 

[motodan]

Isn't Ralph Nader now President of the Corvair Car Owners of America Association??? Surprised he never followed up with books on Pinto, Vega, Yugo, Explorer and Audi and others.

 

[sdpc2]

Fred only drove that R60

at one speed... 55mph. Didn't matter what the signs read or the road looked like. And somehow he always made it to any rally before me, no matter how many times i passed him on the road.

That man was a character with a capital C.

But back on topic;most of my BMW's have been pretty reliable.... although there have been a couple of "left stranded on the side of the road", but generally nothing major required repair.

 

[bp@sr9]

Isn't Ralph Nader now President of the Corvair Car Owners of America Association??? Surprised he never followed up with books on Pinto, Vega, Yugo, Explorer and Audi and others.

If my rememory is working, the big issue Nader had with corvairs ( i had one, loved it) is their propensity to swap ends at speed.

 

[daboo]

I thought it had to do with the rear suspension allowing the inside rear wheel to tuck under and when you steered the other direction, the car flipped.

Chris

 

[pglaves]

Universal joints at the inboard end. Solid 90 degrees at the outboard end of each swinging axle. The result was somewhat as described in the previous post. To the driver the condition was that in a hard turn modest understeer suddenly became significant oversteer and the car careened off the road, usually to the inside of the curve or corner, if it didn't roll in the process. Thus Nader's book, "Unsafe At Any Speed"

 

[AKsuited]

Universal joints at the inboard end. Solid 90 degrees at the outboard end of each swinging axle. The result was somewhat as described in the previous post. To the driver the condition was that in a hard turn modest understeer suddenly became significant oversteer and the car careened off the road, usually to the inside of the curve or corner, if it didn't roll in the process. Thus Nader's book, "Unsafe At Any Speed"

A Corvair convertible was my first car. It was used, of course. It was a great car in the snows of the north. I remember that it liked to sashay down the road, at least on snow and ice. I suppose my being able to master that death trap explains why I am still here...