This is going to be unpopular

[Rapid_Roy]

Seconded. We can split the cost.

 

[HODAG]

I have the right to complain. Do nothing to change things......
Tom

Tom you also have a right to get very involved and change things, this is your club. You have the same rights AND responsibilities as anyone in this club.

 

[ahpd1992]

Hey Tom -

No offense was intended from my side of things, and I certainly did not interpret that from yours. We simply have differing opinions. I am looking at it from the logistical point of things. You were looking at it from your viewpoint.

Hope we can meet down the road sometimes to share stories.

Sue

Sue, we actually did meet once. You were on your way back from a rally meeting in Missouri, I was on my way to Collinsville, IL for a training conference. It was the fall of 06, I saw your beautiful GS at a gas stop. You came out and we talked breifly and you told me where the rally was going to be. You are a very nice person, it you rmemeber the meeting I hope I left you w/ a similar impression. From what I saw you and your staff did a bang up job. And I did not take any offense to your response, I understand your point of view. That GS is lucky to have you as its owner

Tom

 

[pglaves]

Sue, we actually did meet once. You were on your way back from a rally meeting in Missouri, I was on my way to Collinsville, IL for a training conference. It was the fall of 06, I saw your beautiful GS at a gas stop. You came out and we talked breifly and you told me where the rally was going to be. You are a very nice person, it you rmemeber the meeting I hope I left you w/ a similar impression. From what I saw you and your staff did a bang up job. And I did not take any offense to your response, I understand your point of view. That GS is lucky to have you as its owner

Tom

Actually, Sue is far too short to ride a GS. Sue reminds me of my favorite Dennis the Menace cartoon, in which Dennis says to Mr. Wilson, "What do you mean my legs are too short. They reach the ground!" Which is not true of Miss tippytoes riding her GS. But then, real riders don't need to put their feet down, do they?

 

[ted]

It appears that the above response says it all, oh well it was just a suggestion that has got me labled as a non-conformist, wet t-shirt loving, beer swilling, and "not our kind of people". Good riddance, cheap skate, glad you hated it so now you wont show up at any other of the events.

Actually, with the exception of a few posts, I thought this thread was a pretty civilized discussion of why the Organization does not have day passes and ala carte pricing. To brand us all this way is a bit unfair. It is a worthy suggestion, and has been made many times before (and even tried a few times.) Los of folks who have volunteered at rallies (and even some that have had a hand in running them) have commented on why it is not a popular option.

I'd urge you to head to Wyoming and spend a few days taking advantage of the countless things these National Rallies have to offer - personally I've never met a more welcoming and friendly group of folks in my life.

 

[mcohen]

Zero to none ... but if part of the argument has been the logistics (how can the car club figure it out but the motorcycle club can't ???)...

The BMW CCA's Oktoberfest is a different kind of rally with different logistics. It attracts "hundreds" instead of the MOA's 8,000. It is hotel-based (cost not included) with events spread out over different venues. While the MOA is a centralized event where members don't have to leave security at the end of each day. What may work for Oktoberfest may be unworkable for our rally.

Michael

 

[GSFORNOW]

Curious: How many potential day passes do we think will be sold in the desolate region of NE Wyoming?

Are all future rallies going to be in NE Wyoming? I guess that would put the day pass issue to rest.

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

(Aerial View).

Don't you people have trees in Wisconsin?

 

[GILLY]

You can't see any trees in that picture?
20 years ago it was all farmland, so not alot of old trees.
Roads, sprawl, progress.
Gilly

 

[beemerPhil]

The Washington County Fair Park is only 6 years old, or so I was told by some of their staff. Before that, it was all farmland, so the oldest trees on the site have been there no more than 6 years.....

Nevertheless, a lot of folks found shade to set up in- some of them were very creative!

 

[knary]

Are all future rallies going to be in NE Wyoming? I guess that would put the day pass issue to rest.

Yes.
All future rallies are going to be in NE Wyoming.


-sigh- I was making a joke, albeit a weak one.

 

[steviewonder]

I think a day pass is a great idea- for a small local rally, held near the sponsoring club's home base. It welcomes the tire-kickers and the general public, enhances enrollment and rally attendance, supports the vendors- looks like a winner all around.

But for the National, the pros are sketchy, and the cons stack up pretty fast.

Maybe you can share what you see as the cons with the rest of us?

 

[steviewonder]

The BMW CCA's Oktoberfest is a different kind of rally with different logistics. It attracts "hundreds" instead of the MOA's 8,000. It is hotel-based (cost not included) with events spread out over different venues. While the MOA is a centralized event where members don't have to leave security at the end of each day. What may work for Oktoberfest may be unworkable for our rally.

Michael

I can't see it as being unworkable. Most events other than the driving events (track and autocross) are central to the hotel. If you consider a campground as simply another type of hotel, there is little difference. Wrist band color for an event pass and another color for each day for a day pass. We already have attendees who don't stay at the central campground (hotels, motorhomes, etc) so it's not a new issue in many ways.

It's time to think out of the box and try not to get caught up in "it's the way we've always done it" rationalization for not embracing change. Not change simply for the sake of change, but to better an already good idea.

 

[knary]

I can't see it as being unworkable. Most events other than the driving events (track and autocross) are central to the hotel. If you consider a campground as simply another type of hotel, there is little difference. Wrist band color for an event pass and another color for each day for a day pass. We already have attendees who don't stay at the central campground (hotels, motorhomes, etc) so it's not a new issue in many ways.

It's time to think out of the box and try not to get caught up in "it's the way we've always done it" rationalization for not embracing change. Not change simply for the sake of change, but to better an already good idea.

Hotel rooms have doors.

 

[steviewonder]

We go through this every year. A handful of people wish there were day passes. There are many reasons why day passes are NOT a good idea.

ONE reason is that it would be almost impossible to police. Seriously. This is a fact. We already have different colored wristbands for those who are under 21, vendors, regular attendees, etc. Adding yet another wristband (or even more, if we had one for each day) would NOT be a good idea.

TWO is that if I paid $35 to come onto the rally, it would seem unfair that some non-member off the street could get into my own club's event for less. Yeah, I have a problem with that. This is MY club event. If anyone gets in for less, it should be us, the members.

THREE - fiscal responsibility

What must be taken into account, everyone, is the bottom line. Things that must be lined up ahead of time include:

fair ground rental
electrical needs for vendors
radios
golf carts
caterers
Portable toilets
Tables
Chairs
tents
seminar spaces
video equipment
sound equipment
musical performers
pins & patches for attendees
more......​

The cost for renting all of these items will not change, but if we start letting some people in for less, we might not be able to cover these costs. The only way I can see of assuring that these expenses would be covered [if we offered day passes] would be to increase the 3-day fee, so some day-pass people could get in for less. Personally, I wouldn't like that very much either.

The national rally is a GREAT event, everyone. Consider the gate fee as supporting your club.

Sue, with all due respect, these arguments are neither factual nor logical.

Day passes INCREASE attendance by attracting those who can't/won't attend the entire event. Those that do so now will continue to do so. The revenue effect is irrefutably positive. Remember there are a lot of interested parties who simply can't get off work or escape other conflicts for the full term of the rally. Day passes allow those who would otherwise not attend a chance to attend. The increased traffic is good for the club and good for the sponsors and vendors which is also good for the club because it increases the attraction for sponsors and vendors at subsequent events.

Why is it unfair that a person who visits for one day at, for example, $15 is getting a better deal than the person who stays for 5 days at $35? Why are matinees cheaper than evening shows ??? It the same movie. Does that make it a ripoff for the evening customer? If you buy one Coke are you putting the person who buys a 6pack at a disadvantage? The indisputable fact is that the person who attends on one day won't have the opportunity to attend nearly as many activities as the person who is there for the duration. They actually pay more per activity than the full event attendee ... as it should be.

If there is a pre-planning issue, there are many possible solutions including advance sales (you don't have to sell the passes at the event itself), limiting day passes as a percentage of total sales, only have day passes available on certain days, etc.

It's time to drag out way into the 21st century. The old way is not always the best way and most certainly won't be the only way.

 

[steviewonder]

Hotel rooms have doors.

So do tents.

 

[knary]

So do tents.

You got my point though, didn't you?

 

[knary]

Day passes INCREASE attendance by attracting those who can't/won't attend the entire event. Those that do so now will continue to do so. The revenue effect is irrefutably positive.

You don't know that.
Some of those that paid $35 in would only pay $15 for their day pass.
There might be some more attendees. But would it be enough to offset the revenue lost to those that only buy a day pass instead?


I'm ambivalent.
Pros:
Exposure
Possibly more attendance from both local members and nonmembers

Cons:
Less secure
Possible negative impact on revenue

The big nugget to me is security. We're not talking about a bunch of people in hotel rooms. We're talking about tents and bikes with keys in them and all our gear spread out for the entire world to see. It's a fantastic atmosphere of relaxed trust. Having that kind of exposure isn't an issue "in the family", but when the general public starts wandering through, wrist bands or not...

 

[dancogan]

The big nugget to me is security. We're not talking about a bunch of people in hotel rooms. We're talking about tents and bikes with keys in them and all our gear spread out for the entire world to see. It's a fantastic atmosphere of relaxed trust. Having that kind of exposure isn't an issue "in the family", but when the general public starts wandering through, wrist bands or not...

A few of us were discussing the day pass issue over breakfast this weekend. The security issue was high on most peoples' minds, with the concern that opening the door to day passes would also open the door to the possibility of more mischief. Just the thoughts of a few of us ... RMMV

 

[sjbmw]

"It's a fantastic atmosphere of relaxed trust."
So true.

After taking my son to his 2nd National, all I can say is the membership of this club are the most upstanding around.

I shove some cash in his hand and let him run off and "have at it", and he tells me stories later of who he met, what was cool, etc, and to sum up, it meant "everyone is looking out for him".