Post here if you've had prematurely worn cam lobe(s) in your wethead

[dlong]

Bike #1 ('18 RT) needed new cams at 800 mi and was traded back to the dealer.

Bike #2 (also an '18 RT) getting new cams and followers at 24K mi. at this time. This was detected at the 24K service. Only minor scratching noted at 12K service. The fact that I had done all maintenance on the bike since new was not raised as an issue.

Has anyone had to have an out-of warranty cam replacement? Curious to learn how BMW will handle those claims, as they will certainly continue to arise. My parts guy quoted me 3500.00 in parts for the repair.

 

[PoorUB]

I have a '18 RT and popped the valve covers off the other day. Roughly 7,000 miles and the cams look like new. I got a good one!

 

[Sticky Throttle]

2014 gs

Took my 2014 GS in for its 24k service in Sept 2018. I had noticed a slight degradation in performance, but not enough to complain. It was, as I recall, very subtle.

The bike was produced in late 2013 and was out of warranty.

During the service, the tech noticed abnormally worn cam lobes. Service Manager got BMW to pay for the replacement (parts and labor).

Performance had obviously decreased over time, making it almost imperceptible. The repair made an immediate difference.

Disappointed this problem existed but pleased with my dealer and BMW. Problem solved, bike runs like new.

Dealer: Harrison Eurosports, Salt Lake City

 

[cajunbruce]

Cam Lobes

We're hearing more stories about this issue in R bikes so post here if you're needing to replace camshaft(s), include year and miles if you will. Also, a word about how you discovered the issue, be it running behavior or as an incidental finding on a valve clearance check.

Thanks

Maybe BMW is using the same cam manufacturer that Moto Guzzi used. Same issue. Guzzi is replacing with roller cams. Enter the bean counters. BMW automotive managers came to the motorcycle side to "improve profits."

 

[fog820]

Looks like more work to own one of these

I have done lots of work on my bikes for years. For me a motorcycle is my primary transportation. My last two motorcycles averaged a bit over 200,000 miles each. I always buy the extended warranty, for gold wings it was 6 years unlimited mileage. They did have some warranty work done over time, I wore out a rear end on one at about 150,000 miles replaced under warranty, an alternator and a fork tube on another, replaced under warranty.

I bought an eight year warranty, 5 extra years on the BMW unlimited mileage. Reading threads like this one makes me glad I did. I am planning to do lots of the work on this new bike, my first BMW. In doing all the research I have done the bike looks to be very well designed and quite capable. It appears the only issues seem to be with quality control types of things.

I am also thinking that being aware of potential areas for trouble thanks to this forum and the good discussions will make the membership fee money well spent. Tip of the hat to all of you for sharing your experiences.

 

[motodan]

I have done lots of work on my bikes for years. For me a motorcycle is my primary transportation. My last two motorcycles averaged a bit over 200,000 miles each. I always buy the extended warranty, for gold wings it was 6 years unlimited mileage. They did have some warranty work done over time, I wore out a rear end on one at about 150,000 miles replaced under warranty, an alternator and a fork tube on another, replaced under warranty.

I bought an eight year warranty, 5 extra years on the BMW unlimited mileage. Reading threads like this one makes me glad I did. I am planning to do lots of the work on this new bike, my first BMW. In doing all the research I have done the bike looks to be very well designed and quite capable. It appears the only issues seem to be with quality control types of things.

I am also thinking that being aware of potential areas for trouble thanks to this forum and the good discussions will make the membership fee money well spent. Tip of the hat to all of you for sharing your experiences.

"Only?" Seems to be the ultimate concern one could have.

 

[fog820]

I wouldn't expect doing 100% inspection for camshafts but I would expect a program of randomized destructive inspections or whatever is required tied to source batches etc according to some smart algorithm. What's weird about this issue w/ cam lobes is that it very apparently spans the full lifespan of wetheads and I guess more. It's not like it was one bad batch presumably, or maybe it was I don't know. We also have to factor in the true cost of their Good Will repairs against what a better QC program might cost. Compared to their competitors, how does BMW stack up against other brands of high end motorcycles?

As to Honda, the goldwing is a fairly complex machine. Similar features, GPS, anti-lock brakes and shaft drive, solid lifters that use shims to adjust. Initial warranty for Honda 3 years unlimited mileage. I have been pleased with the quality of Honda and will comment on the much longer service intervals. I believe it is 32,000 miles on the valves and I have not needed them to be adjusted with less than a 100,000 mile interval. Spark plugs also last a very long time. Quality control for those is great. The thing was very reliable. I have a bit over 400,000 miles in total on two gold wings.

I bought a BMW because I wanted a sport touring model and liked many of the features the BMW RT has, like removable luggage, and the very large fuel tank and range. The BMW was not my first choice but was second in comparison to the Motus, alas they were not able to make a go of it so BMW. I compared the BMW to many other bikes in the type and the 1250 rt looked to me like a very good machine in comparison to the others with regard to features and performance. After a few years and several thousand miles I will see if I still feel the same way.

 

[fog820]

reply

"Only?" Seems to be the ultimate concern one could have.

Actually, for me a design defect is much more of a concern.

A quality control issue is something that can be replaced with a non-defective component, a design issue is forever. My name might be a clue to a bit of my background. Fog, stands for fat old guy, I have been a motorcycle rider for more than 45 years. As such I can remember the hinge in the middle kawasaki frames as they were called, harleys that had their owners wearing shirts that said I would rather push my harley than ride a rice burner, I saw a lot of them pushing. Engines that wold self destruct at around the shocking mileage of 25,000. There are lots more issues. Many things would be improved from model year to model year as it seemed the owners were the R&D department, we squawked enough and changes were made and we eventually bought the next version. My first motorcycle for street use cost less than 1000.00 new.

Even with all the challenges we face today when buying high priced complex machines and dealing with problems some serious we are far better off than in days gone by. I also wish quality control was closer to perfect than it is.

My reply was not intended to be rude, just to answer your comment, and I do see where you are coming from and believe your point is quite valid.

 

[tater]

Sent you PM on this issue.

Not to be unkind but you can not say that. These can go bad from 100 miles to 80,000 miles as has be documented all over. It also can affect LC 14 to a LC 18 with no rhyme or reason.

This has been ongoing.

Sent PM on this issue.

 

[robsryder]

Following is a short, but interesting video illustrating a method of hardening cam lobes by induction heating followed by quenching (fairly rapid cooling) -

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/igYqVEOJTHI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[robsryder]

Induction heating can very rapidly and locally heat a component. It sure looks like magic Following is a short video that illustrates the general principle of induction heating -

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JnWe_X20QhY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[tater]

Cam problems in 2013 LC motors

Not to be unkind but you can not say that. These can go bad from 100 miles to 80,000 miles as has be documented all over. It also can affect LC 14 to a LC 18 with no rhyme or reason.

This has been ongoing.

You mentioned the problem exists in LC14 - LC 18 engines. I'm currently considering purchase of a 2013 GS which, for that model,was the first year of the LC motor. Did you just happen to omit that year or do you have information that the problem does not exist in engines built in that year?

Any other feedback you can offer for the 2013 LC would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[onlyrt4me]

2018 RTW - RH Front EXH cam lobe @ 33k miles

Mine just had 'updated' cams put in due to failure at 33k miles. Engine clatter started to worsen after a couple days, out of nowhere. Worse part, (dealer un-named), the nasty black metallic ridden oil was never changed and returned to me low, without moisture even on the site glass after an hour on the center stand upon arriving home 70 miles later. Let's just say there are other issues at hand

 

[dlong]

First time I have seen such a varying amount of wear on the lobes of a single cam shaft. In some views, it appears the material came off in chunks! FWIW, I noticed nothing metallic on the drain plug when I discovered my issue. Hard to understand. Could there be other issues at play, such as variable rate in the valve springs or variable material in the followers? I doubt we will ever learn.

 

[azgman]

Mine just had 'updated' cams put in due to failure at 33k miles. Engine clatter started to worsen after a couple days, out of nowhere. Worse part, (dealer un-named), the nasty black metallic ridden oil was never changed and returned to me low, without moisture even on the site glass after an hour on the center stand upon arriving home 70 miles later. Let's just say there are other issues at hand

Since I live in AZ, I'd like to know what dealer returned you your bike in this condition. PM if you would like.

 

[onlyrt4me]

azgman PM'd you


So here's the quick rundown if anyone's interested:

The camshafts were immaculate at the 24k mile service. At 33k a few weeks ago, I began to notice a valve train tick that worsened the next day. That next day I was able to clearly hear it from the RH cylinder head. I removed all my protection bars and cylinder head covers for inspection, that is when I found the above. There was well over a MM of clearance between the worn lobe and the worn follower of the RF exh cam lobe. All cams had scoring and wear.

That is when I safely bubble wrapped and zipped tied my Clearwater lights to the radiators and had it towed to the dealer. I even only take it to the dealer I bought it from as the closest one to me can't even replace a tire properly. I nicely left my bars off and labeled everything to be cautious about as there is about 10 grand of goodies on here.

As one who speaks fluent dealer, and has spent 10+ years in car dealerships, I was already aware of all the miscomunications and lack of care that take place in these large establishments. I was VERY clear with the advisor on everything I expected. I also explained to them that this was my only current transportation temporarily, as I am between vehicles. (Couldn't of happened at a better time of coarse as it does ) I advised him to keep me completely updated on the status and pick up date, as I will be bumming rides and ubering until then. He dropped the ball and never called me by the weekend as requested, to which he was OFF.
The next day (Sunday) I recieved a call that parts were in and bike will be completed Monday for sure. I specifically told him that if there was any reason at all that the bike may not be done, to let me know, as I will have to bum a ride up there and wait around ahead of time after I get off work.

I arrived there early after work on Monday and sat around the dealer hanging out, never bothered the advisor, never was a pest, no rush, just hangin out. I get a call on my phone from the advisor an hour before close as I'm sitting on the couch in front of him in the waiting area to tell me that everything is going good, but the bike may not be done tonight.

I told him that probably won't be good as I will then have to borrow your couch for the night, and I'm sitting right in front of you. He peeked over his monitor, and frantically went to talk to the tech. He came back saying it was for sure going to be done tonight and that he didn't know I was going to be there. (2nd time not listening to a darn word I told him).

At this point I'm cool as a cucumber but am now expecting trouble as I feel they are going to rush the repair at the end of the night. All could have been avoided with proper Communication.

Bike gets done close to closing time, I ride home.
70 miles later I arrive home and immediately pop it up on the center stand to double check the work. NO REGISTER ON THE SIGHT GLASS AT ALL.

I took so many pictures of this crap it makes my blood boil every time I look at them. The oil was a 1/2 qt. Low, black with EXTREMELY HEAVY metallic contamination, oil filter marked and not changed, scoring and pitting on the sprocket teeth( which I notified them of initially). I've saved everything and finished a report of the entire event. Even took macro pics of engine internals to show the long term damage this has caused.

I frankly don't trust the bike now as before. I did not spend a VERY METICULOUS two years of care and maintenance all to be destroyed by manufacture defects & dealer negligence.

I am going to allow them to remedy a solution to me before contacting BMW. I don't trust an engine replacement either as they couldn't even put fresh oil and a filter in the damn thing. Not the best way to break in new 'updated' engine internals.

So being the Master Tech I am, and having plenty of oil and filters on demand. I changed everything myself and gathered all my evidence of negligence. Thanks for listening, Rant over.

 

[blacque jacque shellacque]

This is one sad story. What a disaster. The bottom of the oil pan must be filled with metal particles, or perhaps chunks. I hope it works out. BMW has some explaining to do.

 

[exgman]

Complain to NHTSA

I've been reading with interest about the cam-wear issues with the wethead engine as I have a 2015 RT. It does not seem that anyone has used the NHTSA complaint process. Perhaps this is something which members should begin to consider.

By way of recent history, the problems with some K1600 transmissions resulted in safety issues and resulted in a recall. If a safety issue results from riding a bike on which the cams fail then the failure should be reported to the NHTSA.

In the recall world, a safety issue on a motorcycle is something which could lead to a crash. On the K1600 transmission issue, the two reported events were the "blocking" of the rear wheel, which I think means it locked up. One rider was able to stop, but one went down (minor injuries).

I'd encourage those with the issue to contact the NHTSA if they've experienced (not feared in the future) a safety issue because of the cam wear.

Here's the URL: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

 

[onlyrt4me]

Thanks for the tip ExGman, that is an important step I will be sure to explore.

I've changed the oil again at 250 miles (after the repair) and still looks bad, lots of metallic debris inside. Even brass looking material which is alarming me.

Keeping it all in glass containers so I can just sit there in my garage and stare at it.

 

[lee]

I've been reading with interest about the cam-wear issues with the wethead engine as I have a 2015 RT. It does not seem that anyone has used the NHTSA complaint process. Perhaps this is something which members should begin to consider.

Not sure the NHTSA would see this as safety issue.
I have not heard of any cases of the worn cams causing a accident.

The K1200S had cam chain tensioner problems causing the cam chain to jump a tooth and in some cases destroying the head. This was not a recall.