Post here if you've had prematurely worn cam lobe(s) in your wethead

[ponch1]

Hopefully they fix it for you on their dime. They should. Unfortunately BMW's response to such things can be schizophrenic. I've seen one guy whose fuel pump died after 8 months and they refused to cover it. The dealer went to bat for the guy and eventually BMW relented, yet I've seen them cover stuff out of warranty too. I think the key factor there is if you had the dealer do all the services the bike ever needed. Not everyone does that. In the past, there have been issues like these, that are clearly their doing and it's fallen on deaf ears, see Eilenberger's Axiom.

 

[migrant]

Just pulled covers off my 2016 RT for a valve clearance check, and found bad intake cam on left side, front lobe. Right side looks ok. 22K miles. I talked to my local dealer, and asked if BMW was covering this - he told me I'd have to bring it in so they can see and then try. But if there is no chance in hell, I'll just buy the part and do it myself. Curious what people think - has anyone had luck getting this covered for an out of warranty bike?

I have two weeks before the appointment (I do all my own service & repair normally) and hate to pay the diagnostic fee if there is no chance BMW will cover it.
I can install the damn parts myself and I hate to waste the $ on a service call if it is in vain.

I need to read this thread more thoroughly, but sounds like the cam and cam follower need to be replaced, not just the cam?

I also own a 2017 GSA - I will be checking that one soon, hoping I didn't hit the "jackpot" on this issue :-0

More info for you.
https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/107487-camshaft-and-follower-failure/

 

[oldcamper]

Considering what it costs for new replacement BMW camshafts, and unfortunately the questionable quality of the OEM parts to begin with, has anyone ever investigated having a “flat” cam lobe rebuilt? In the old car world this practice is not uncommon, and there are several shops that claim to be proficient at it.

This may be a stupid idea, but if I had an 8 year old bike with 100,000 miles on it, I’d probably be reluctant to stick nearly $4,000 worth of parts in it, not including labor.

Has anyone ever looked into having a BMW cam re-faced? Is it even possible?

 

[mcwhirtj]

More info for you.
https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/107487-camshaft-and-follower-failure/

Thanks. If left on my own (as I expect, sigh) I was going to replace just the one camshaft (intake) and rockers. That thread says both sets of cams/rockers should be replaced, ugh. Doubles the cost from what I was expecting. I may look for a used head on eBay. Also may wait until I remove and can inspect the exhaust cam and rockers. Cam lobes looked fine on exhaust cam, but that thread points to wear of the dlc coating on rockers, which you cannot inspect w/o removing the parts.

Low miles but 7 years old - I need to balance the risk/rewards for the repair given the cost.

Thanks again for the link.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[mcwhirtj]

Just found a used complete cylinder head on eBay for under $300. That's about the cost just to have the dealer take a look. Seriously considering to just buy that and cannibalize the parts. Cams look in good condition from the photos, and it is close enough to me I could take a trip to inspect. Hmm ....

 

[Boxflyer]

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topi...lower-failure/
I'm on here as well.

Today I did number 154 and 155 Cam Timing and Valve Clearance Checks...those are on mostly 1200 WetHeads as well as about 25% of those on 1250 CamHeads. Only about half a dozen on the 1200 CamHeads.
If you would like, I'll take a look at the eBay listing you are referring to and give you my opinion.

Just 2 days ago I was doing another 1200 WetHead and found the LH rear Intake Cam lobe worn and have already purchased an eBay head to get the parts to repair it.
I did the same thing for a RH 1200 WetHead back in April and found that both Cams, and all 4 Cam Followers were affected by the extra metal floating around in the head on the side of the damaged lobe.
Once you get a salvaged head to harvest parts, it's best to keep all the parts that have been in contact with each other in the same relative position...I think they will be much better off that way.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Boxflyer
Brad Smith

 

[mcwhirtj]

...
If you would like, I'll take a look at the eBay listing you are referring to and give you my opinion.
...
Let me know if you have any questions.

Boxflyer
Brad Smith

Thanks - appreciated. I will PM you with details on the eBay head. Very curious to get your opinion.
Jim

 

[alegerlotz]

Hopefully they fix it for you on their dime. They should. Unfortunately BMW's response to such things can be schizophrenic. I've seen one guy whose fuel pump died after 8 months and they refused to cover it. The dealer went to bat for the guy and eventually BMW relented, yet I've seen them cover stuff out of warranty too. I think the key factor there is if you had the dealer do all the services the bike ever needed. Not everyone does that. In the past, there have been issues like these, that are clearly their doing and it's fallen on deaf ears, see Eilenberger's Axiom.

Maybe just my opinion, but if you've had the dealer do all of your services, then in a lot of ways you've "paid for the repair" even if BMW covers it, because the cost for those services is so high at the dealer, even in comparison with having an independent shop do them.

 

[motormike]

I need to read this thread more thoroughly, but sounds like the cam and cam follower need to be replaced, not just the cam?

That depends. If you are going to keep the bike, both the cam and the follower need to be replaced. If you are going to sell the bike, just the cam needs to be replaced! (Just kidding...I think)

By the way, since I have a 1250gs, how many bad cams have people been seeing in the shift cam heads?

 

[jandhumphreyme]

That depends. If you are going to keep the bike, both the cam and the follower need to be replaced. If you are going to sell the bike, just the cam needs to be replaced! (Just kidding...I think)

By the way, since I have a 1250gs, how many bad cams have people been seeing in the shift cam heads?

My '21RT 1250 was inspected at 16.5k miles and so far so good, no wear on cams or followers.

 

[tsconver]

That depends. If you are going to keep the bike, both the cam and the follower need to be replaced. If you are going to sell the bike, just the cam needs to be replaced! (Just kidding...I think)

By the way, since I have a 1250gs, how many bad cams have people been seeing in the shift cam heads?

TO my knowledge have not seen any reported failures. I asked Boxflyer as well and he has not seen any and he has touched quite a few of them.

 

[Rballou53]

Dry film lubricant

I haven’t had this problem yet but I plan to send the camshafts off to Performance Coatings for dry film lubricant. I had it done to a Triumph camshaft and it came back very nice. I have also had it done to the inside splines of a R1150 clutch plate.
Dry-Film Lubricants
Dry-Film Coating is a moly-based lubricant capable of providing lubrication at levels as high as 350,000 psi. The lubrication aids in preventing scuffing and galling, increasing part life. It also reduces friction, freeing more useable power. This lubricant provides extra protection by preventing damage from oil film failure. Dry-Film Coating is actually impregnated into the metal surface so no dimensional changes are realized. In addition to lubrication, dry-film lubricants also help distribute heat, so less metal fatigue is caused reducing the chance of part failure.
The advertised price is $10 for each cylinder.
Just got back my cams from Performance Coating. It cost around $90 with shipping both ways which was a little more than the advertised price but they came out pretty nice and I think they are bulletproof now.

 

[mikemcgee]

Just checked mine, 2016 R1200gs with 81300 miles. Found a bad exhaust cam on the left side with others kinda iffy. Not sure what to do? trade it in? These critters are expensive!
Also after more research, what I understand is that it is the cam followers/rockers that are the culprit, not the cams themselves. The diamond like coating on the followers wears off and wears the cam lobes. The new followers/rockers are of different design.
I'm thinking to just replace the bad cam and to replace all of the followers on both sides. The rest of the cams look ok.
Any ideas?
Thank you for your responses,
mikemcgee

 

[r0ckrat]

It might be worth just stopping into your local dealer with pics on hand of the issue, and just talk nicely with them about it. Since it's a known issue, they may be able to get Motorrad USA to cover at least some of the cost.

 

[robsryder]

This is mostly for Boxflyer (or anyone that has experience / info, please chime in); I have a 2018 R1200RTw. When I checked valve clearances at 12k miles, the cam lobes looked ok. On the final day of my warranty I went to the local BMW dealer and had the service tech remove the valve covers and inspect the cam lobes for damage, none found.

I see that BMW has redesigned (and hopefully improved) the cam rocker arms, said to be the source of wear on the cam lobes. I am considering purchasing a set of these redesigned rocker arms and replacing the original units.

My question is this, do the new cam rocker arms appear to be more reliable (i.e., not subject to the same loss of "diamond like" coating and subsequent wear of the cam lobes?)

I am attaching the following pdf files for reference - BMW service bulletin on replacement of cam rocker arms, fiche diagram 11-5221 Timing Gear, and fiche diagram 11-5220 Camshaft, pulley, intermediate shaft. As can be seen from the prices on the fiche diagrams, it is much less costly to replace the cam rocker arms BEFORE the original items fail instead of waiting for eventual failure and having to replace camshafts and also having bits of crap floating about the engine.

 

[Boxflyer]

@robsryder
Your reference to the BMW Service Bulletin includes understanding that it states to replace ALL the CAMS and at the SAME TIME replace all the rocker arms with the updated version.
I have done a couple of partial Cam and Follower replacements, and 1 of 2 complete (all 4 Cams and 8 Followers) Cam Renews.
In all cases, I made SURE that I never switched the mating surfaces of any of the Cams and their followers when using salvage source donor heads.

This is because I think you might introduce more accelerated wear to one or both of the contact points of the Cam Lobe or Follower as they "bed-in" to the different contact patch.
As far as what is different about the NEW Rocker Arm...I can only see that there is a little different profile of the forging of the follower, but I'd have no way of knowing that the revised process of applying the DLC is the "real deal".

My take on what you are concerned about is developing wear that is going to "REQUIRE" the Cams and Followers to be replaced.
If you spend about $160 for each Follower now...$1280 total...and that alone induces a worn Cam Lobe, then you will be buying those same $1280 worth of followers again when/if you have to replace all 4 Cams. (Int or Exh Cams are ~$766 each...so $3064)

I suggest that you just ride it...try not to worry about it between 12k checks, and IF....a big IF...you end up with a worn lobe, take care of it with what's best at the time. That could be either getting salvage heads to harvest all that you need, or buying new replacement cams and followers.

Hope this helps,
Brad

 

[robsryder]

Thank you for the reply. It does appear to be a gamble on the eventual failure of these parts. I know that parts wear and things fail, but I don't think about such failures on my airheads, oilhead, or k75s. I just ride and do regular service (mostly).

 

[mikemcgee]

@robsryder
Your reference to the BMW Service Bulletin includes understanding that it states to replace ALL the CAMS and at the SAME TIME replace all the rocker arms with the updated version.
I have done a couple of partial Cam and Follower replacements, and 1 of 2 complete (all 4 Cams and 8 Followers) Cam Renews.
In all cases, I made SURE that I never switched the mating surfaces of any of the Cams and their followers when using salvage source donor heads.

This is because I think you might introduce more accelerated wear to one or both of the contact points of the Cam Lobe or Follower as they "bed-in" to the different contact patch.
As far as what is different about the NEW Rocker Arm...I can only see that there is a little different profile of the forging of the follower, but I'd have no way of knowing that the revised process of applying the DLC is the "real deal".

My take on what you are concerned about is developing wear that is going to "REQUIRE" the Cams and Followers to be replaced.
If you spend about $160 for each Follower now...$1280 total...and that alone induces a worn Cam Lobe, then you will be buying those same $1280 worth of followers again when/if you have to replace all 4 Cams. (Int or Exh Cams are ~$766 each...so $3064)

I suggest that you just ride it...try not to worry about it between 12k checks, and IF....a big IF...you end up with a worn lobe, take care of it with what's best at the time. That could be either getting salvage heads to harvest all that you need, or buying new replacement cams and followers.

Hope this helps,
Brad

Thank you Brad for that information!
I have one bad cam and was going to replace it with a new one and then replace all of the followers on both sides. What you said makes good sense. Why put a new follower on an already somewhat worn cam?
Since I have to remove the cam gear and install it on the new cam, I need to find the proper tools for cam timing. No anybody that's rents them?
Thanks again!
mikemcgee

 

[Boxflyer]

@mikemcgee
Looks like you have a source for the tools already.
Good luck.

 

[mikemcgee]

@mikemcgee
Looks like you have a source for the tools already.
Good luck.

Yes! just found out. What a great community we have with our BMW's! Btw, I have watched your videos and they are very helpful and informative, Thank you for that!
mikemcgee