Post here if you've had prematurely worn cam lobe(s) in your wethead

[ncpbmw1953]

We're hearing more stories about this issue in R bikes so post here if you're needing to replace camshaft(s), include year and miles if you will. Also, a word about how you discovered the issue, be it running behavior or as an incidental finding on a valve clearance check.

Thanks

 

[visian]

Is this why the wethead motors sound like they're crushing rocks when they run?

 

[ksb245]

2016 R1200RT-LC
45424 miles.
During a tire change at my dealer, the service manager said the valves sounded loud. After investigating, he called and said the cams needed replaced. He contacted BMW and got the OK to change them out at no cost to me.
I don't notice any difference with how the bike runs or with noise level. I just passed 50K miles yesterday.

 

[omega man]

If these cams are going bad, I wonder where they were produced? So many components are not longer made by the brand manufacturer it seems the chance for error has grown
OM

 

[lee]

One rider has posted on a couple forums that he has a bad cam on his 2018 RS with 12,000 miles.
Picture included in his thread.
https://www.r1200rsforum.com/t1630f7-Groove-worn-on-cam-lobe.html

 

[dlong]

Failure at 800 miles in an '18 RT.

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/88408-rt-lc-cam-problems/?tab=comments#comment-1004774

 

[PGlaves]

Aw! Who needs that SG rated oil with sufficient anti-wear additive anyway.

 

[cap]

Aw! Who needs that SG rated oil with sufficient anti-wear additive anyway.

I'm not sure what you imply here, Paul. In the Sporttouring thread, the owner discovers the problem at 800 miles, after 2 oil changes with BMW spec oil. So, at least on that bike, the problem is not lubrication induced: not enough miles, and fresh high quality oil. It can't be a design problem, because the vast majority of the bikes work fine. So, it must be a manufacturing defect. Do you think additives will prevent manufacturing defects from emerging?

By the way, two other owners report problems in the sporttouring thread. Still small numbers, but kind of alarming. I certainly took a careful look at my cams when I did my valve adjustment at 9k miles.

 

[PGlaves]

I'm not sure what you imply here, Paul. .

I was being sarcastic, but these are sliding/scuffing cam followers unlike typical automotive roller followers. Back when the API reduced ZDDP in SJ rated oils BMW objected to the API claim that SJ superceded all previous ratings and was superior. I still agree with what BMW said back then.

That said it is probably an improper surface hardening issue, but I object to the dishonesty about reduced ZDDP in oil.

 

[52184]

Obtaining 20-50 oils high in zddp is fairly easier, but more difficult in the viscosity ranges BMW is now specifying on newer machines.

Best,
DeVern

 

[exgman]

Here we go! Another oil thread...

 

[PGlaves]

Here we go! Another oil thread...

Of course. When you have worn metal, lubrication or its lack is part of the topic.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

I was asked to use my fingernail on each lobe to see if I could feel anything. I felt no imperfections in 240 cam lobes.

That's comforting to read thanks for that. If only there were a dbase of the various issues that crop up in our motorcycles so one could get an accurate sense. I do like the fact as realshelby pointed out this is not likely to leave you stranded, i.e. you will have warning time to investigate or it will be an incidental finding. This does clearly make the case for valve clearance checks at least every 12K.

 

[cap]

This one I saw from JVB Productions had a 1/4" of each lobe gone only the width of the follower, the original shape of the lobe was there on each end as a thin slice, and the owner said he really had not noticed a power difference?

There are 4 valves per cylinder. So, if one valve is not opening, and the cam is otherwise rotating smoothly, then the change in performance would be subtle. At high RPM, the engine would not be flowing as much air, so the peak power would decline. Assuming the fuel injection system measures the air mass flow rate and adjusts the fuel accordingly, then the engine would be running pretty well.

How many of us use high RPMs and high power a lot? Especially since this condition develops gradually, it will be difficult to notice.

 

[passedetp]

This one I saw from JVB Productions had a 1/4" of each lobe gone only the width of the follower, the original shape of the lobe was there on each end as a thin slice, and the owner said he really had not noticed a power difference?

View attachment 75034

Did they have a mileage associated with this wear?

- Austin

 

[cap]

As far as not noticing a loss in power I can see if your not on it, and as long as one lobe is good. However I ride my bike pretty hard and into the high rpms a lot. I would hope I would notice but who knows?

Lee, I think the other thing that might be noticeable, especially at high load, is an imbalance between cylinders. That is, if only one cam lobe is bad, then one cylinder will be making full power, and the other will be reduced. So, I can imagine that this would induce some extra vibration.

Of course, we boxers owners are accustomed to high vibrations, so again it might be difficult to notice.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

However if it happens to me it will be the last BMW for me and it would be gone once repaired.

I'm with you on this. In this era it is preposterous that their QC was insufficient to identify sourced parts with this level of criticality, and at the cost of these motorcycles. Beside flashy technology which we enjoy they need to get ALL of the basics right first, and need to be leaders in this area. There's just no excuse for this nowadays.

 

[azgman]

No "high volume" manufacturer does 100% inspection and even if they did you could only do a non-destructive inspection. In addition, BMW contracts out most of its parts manufacture which means catching bad parts is often pushed down to the supplier, so there is always a chance that a bad batch of parts slips through.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

No "high volume" manufacturer does 100% inspection and even if they did you could only do a non-destructive inspection. In addition, BMW contracts out most of its parts manufacture which means catching bad parts is often pushed down to the supplier, so there is always a chance that a bad batch of parts slips through.

I wouldn't expect doing 100% inspection for camshafts but I would expect a program of randomized destructive inspections or whatever is required tied to source batches etc according to some smart algorithm. What's weird about this issue w/ cam lobes is that it very apparently spans the full lifespan of wetheads and I guess more. It's not like it was one bad batch presumably, or maybe it was I don't know. We also have to factor in the true cost of their Good Will repairs against what a better QC program might cost. Compared to their competitors, how does BMW stack up against other brands of high end motorcycles?

 

[lee]

What's weird about this issue w/ cam lobes is that it very apparently spans the full lifespan of wetheads

I also find it puzzling to still hear about bad cams in the Wetheads.
When we purchased our 2016 R1200RS bikes the Tech told me to keep an eye on the cam lobs when doing valve checks.
He mentioned the shop had replaced cams on a few Wethead bikes.
If I remember correctly the cams were replaced on early Wetheads.