BMW Motorcycle Reliability Quality Support Failure

[exgman]

Interesting point...with the flashing triangle, it's like the bike is crying "Wolf!" which over time would (as you say) mask some other more important warning. I think when the triangle flashes red it's really a message to stop then and there before something really bad happens to engine, bike or rider.

 

[exgman]

Anyone have another option here? All inputs are certainly welcome!

Certainly it is easy to "Monday morning quarterback" the situation. However none of us were there. While not an optimal solution and outcome, the rider did manage to control the bike to the point of the rear wheel lock-up. In this case, I opine that Option 3 might have been a better choice.

I vote for option 3, if the power is gone completely. Speed down the road on a motorcycle is similar to having altitude in an airplane which experiences power loss...it gives you time to make some decisions and look for a safe landing (or stopping) location.

 

[jlevee]

I am reminded of an incident that occurred to me when I was a younger and more stupid rider.

I was coming home from an event & was merging onto a freeway (riding a honda hurricane), it was friday afternoon & traffic was flying so I punched it when I saw a hole w/ the ability to merge to the left most lane & took it. I spent too much time watching the traffic behind & not the road ahead. The freeway curved to the right & was under construction, eliminating the lane I was in in the next few feet, with heavy traffic to the right of me. I popped up over the curb (no concrete walls at this point) & merged w/ the mostly gravel median between the N&S bound freeway sections. I pulled in the clutch & did my best to let entropy, gravity & down shifting slow me down over time, fearing a skid on the gravel. It worked & I came to a stop. After several minutes of letting my heart return to normal I found a way back on the freeway & continued home.

So the similarity is speed/power instantly changed to nothing & on rough terrain. Granted I was in control of when it happened, unlike in the posted instance.

It does suck you had issues w/ the part & I have read many occurrences on the boards about the part going out.
But in the end unfortunately, although it was bad customer service and & a recall should be done on the whole strip system, I don't believe BMW is at fault for the crash itself. (I also would not sign the letter and would seek other avenues in your position.)

 

[cjack]

Interesting point...with the flashing triangle, it's like the bike is crying "Wolf!" which over time would (as you say) mask some other more important warning. I think when the triangle flashes red it's really a message to stop then and there before something really bad happens to engine, bike or rider.

For example, lets say the headlight illumination goes out. Is that a yellow triangle? And does it also write a symbol onto the display? So if you have the fuel warning, how does the fact that you have no headlight (daytime driving...law in most states) play out on the display? And say if you are on an interstate (like I was) and someone pulls off to the right (like someone did) and you pull over to the left lane (like the law requires) and the guy didn't see your motorcycle because the headlight was not on (like the guy again) and he pulls a left turn right in front of you, across both lanes, to enter a turnaround in the median (which is illegal, but stupid people do it anyway...and because they are stupid to begin with, they do it poorly). Is that a safety issue? So in this case, it would not be BMW's fault that the yellow triangle was ignored because of the broken fuel strip for say a week now, but they could blame the guy in the car?
BTW, this was on my R90S, and my squalling brakes may have been heard by the guy who then accelerated very quickly. I missed him by a few inches still going about 45 MPH...and I turned on my headlight forever after that. A truck driver who saw the whole thing yelled out his window (while I was searching for a gear to be in that made sense) that I was really invisible without the light on.

 

[pglaves]

For example, lets say the headlight illumination goes out. Is that a yellow triangle? And does it also write a symbol onto the display? So if you have the fuel warning, how does the fact that you have no headlight (daytime driving...law in most states) play out on the display? And say if you are on an interstate (like I was) and someone pulls off to the right (like someone did) and you pull over to the left lane (like the law requires) and the guy didn't see your motorcycle because the headlight was not on (like the guy again) and he pulls a left turn right in front of you, across both lanes, to enter a turnaround in the median (which is illegal, but stupid people do it anyway...and because they are stupid to begin with, they do it poorly). Is that a safety issue? So in this case, it would not be BMW's fault that the yellow triangle was ignored because of the broken fuel strip for say a week now, but they could blame the guy in the car?
BTW, this was on my R90S, and my squalling brakes may have been heard by the guy who then accelerated very quickly. I missed him by a few inches still going about 45 MPH...and I turned on my headlight forever after that. A truck driver who saw the whole thing yelled out his window (while I was searching for a gear to be in that made sense) that I was really invisible without the light on.

On Voni's F800S the word "LAMP" appears in the display - even if it is only the parking light, or any other bulb, burned out or otherwise faulty.

 

[marchyman]

My older '05 GS had a picture of a bulb with arrows pointing to either the front or rear (or both) saying where I might find the burnt out bulb. And if it was a brake or tail light filament that went the bike would run the remaining filament at 1/2 and full power to simulate both tail and brake lights.

 

[Alfred02]

Riding BMWs for 42 years now ..........

Calling other people's comments stupid, just points out that you will have to live with the fact that others opinions differ to yours.

As you seem to be really unhappy with these bikes, then why are you still riding them? Voting with your wallet has always been the strongest message customers can send to manufacturers.
The reality is (at least over here and from the sound of it on your side of the pond as well) that customer service has dropped off in a big way, right across the consumer market.
Some simple examples that I have myself experienced just in the last year:

1) Work vehicle, 4WD: Driver side window "falls down" into the door partially and then is jammed hard at an angle. So it's come off it's rail.
Due to being on a rough dirt road and the chance that the window will virtually explode on this terrain, I pulled over and removed the trim to fix the window temporary. I broke the lugs on a couple of the plastic screw covers and the top trim on the plastic arm rest to gain access. Vehicle is still under warranty but manufacturer does not want to pay for the broken plastic trim and screw covers, despite that the whole incident was caused due to their part/assembly failing. Was sorted eventually but never received an apology.
I will just to have to get over it.

2) Brand new top of the line Smart TV. Started to malfunction intermittently within a fortnight. Just a few days later dies completely.
The repair waiting time was twice as along as I had owned the TV. On initial inquiry why it wasn't just simply replaced due to it being brand new, the manufacturer replied that this wasn't their policy and it might well come to this once they investigate the fault. The fault was a know defect as a quick search showed on the Internet. TV lasted just 24 hours after final repair and it was the "shop" that I purchased it in, who just ended up swapping it out.

3) New fridge: Ordered and paid for a stainless steel french door fridge. Upper market model.
What did arrive? A white fridge that was the lower model. On pointing out the fact and quick call back to the store, shows that they don't have the purchased model in stock, except for a floor demo model which they will send out as replacement.
When the fridge finally arrives (they did leave the white one until the other arrived), all it's doors had multiple dings in it.
Quick call "again" and they will replace the doors but had to be ordered. The doors were replaced 6 weeks later.

Back on topic in regards to fuel gauges:
They have never been a reliable indication of actual fuel left in tanks to this very day.
I have 2 different cars that have trip/fuel computers which show mileage left/distance to stop...... When checked with the trip meter, they are always inaccurate by a fair margin.
I do a lot of mileage at work and quite a bid is way of the beaten track in very isolated areas. I learned a long time ago to "never" rely on these trip meters or fuel gauges, as running out on fuel where I go isn't just "inconvenient" but can be dangerous over here.

So are these bikes bullet proof?....nope
do they break down??..yep, they can just like any other vehicle, no matter the make and model or what you paid for it.
Show me a user that says: "This or that manufacturer's vehicles "never broke down on me and always was 100% reliable" and I show you 10 to 100 that will say the exact opposite for the same.

It ultimately comes down to your dealer how well you are looked after, not the manufacturer.
And in the end you have the option to purchase your next bike from a different dealer and a different manufacturer and hope that this one will be better...good luck with that.

 

[JayElDee]

At last, conscious thought in replies. I was beginning to wonder about this place

to be clear about two things, well three, four

my flavor of fuel strip failure has no yellow light. My gauge giddily tells me I have LOTS of fuel left when I don't. I don't have the failure where the gauge is yelling FUEL FUEL FUEL and the yellow light goes on. That's the better/safer one. Again, that is not the way mine fails, at least on the first two.

I know the lying ways of the sensor when it fails, and felt it had failed again, so I was ready to feel the sputter and deal with an unpowered stop.
I had time to choose where I would stop and I chose under an overpass for the shade.

Re the clutch lever. Situational awareness is paramount on a motorcycle. I had a plan and was ready to execute it to controllably stop in a safe area. I knew I would be hitting rumble strips. Not my first rumble strips. I know how they feel and fully anticipated them. They were clearly visible. What got me was the sudden change from one anticipated feeling to one that was an UN anticpated feel. I looked down to see my tires, thinking Did they blow and not knowing what would cause that. I don't know if the rear locked up, but I think mechanics would demand that it would. And I almost caught it. As there was a concret barricade, I only went over about 40 degrees. Panicking? Not at all. It was one of those mishaps at nearly 0 mph in which you're saying F! F! F! and gravity wins another one, in slo motion.

I have relived it over the weeks and I think pulling the clutch lever in, in that particular situation, or maybe most situations, would be the proper course. Just like "altitude in an airplane." In this case rolling forward smoothly and having more time to decide wouldn't hurt.

and finally, my main point in all of this was what I felt to be the shabby customer hostile way I was treated by the dealer, via its owner, aka prev owner of the bike, who probably lied to me about the fuel sensor pre sale, and the take it or leave it cut you loose attitude of BMW. I think it sucked. It was not the crash, or the fuel strip being the cause; all that's arguable.
This type of treatment reflects poorly on a once proud company and gives the KoolAde a bitter aftertaste.

Thanks again for the comments
John

 

[pglaves]

My take: It is possible for any unexpected and un-practiced event to cause a rider to crash. The list includes:

Running out of gas.
A flat tire.
Any engine failure for any reason.
A transmission popping out of gear.
A slick spot in the road.
Unexpected bumps or bumpiness.
Sun in your eyes.
A dog running out.
A left turning car.
Riding in heavy rain or strong winds.

I could go on but won't.

These possibilities are why we practice, take training, hone our skills, etc. With all of that and some luck we can avoid bad things most of the time. That is about the best I can hope for.

 

[JayElDee]

It ultimately comes down to your dealer how well you are looked after, not the manufacturer.
And in the end you have the option to purchase your next bike from a different dealer and a different manufacturer and hope that this one will be better...good luck with that.

agree fully, Alfred.
I bought this bike because I had good luck with my 1150 and after shopping around I was willing to pay a premium for what the roadster gives the rider. This "known defect" stands out like a sore thumb. Were it addressed, I would have no qualms about the brand. And in truth, I have compared other Euro and Japanese bikes and the roadster always come out on top, but most certainly NOT for the fuel strip or dealer support as those two things gave me a wandering eye in the first place.
The only bike that comes close is the liter V Strom, maybe a little underpowered but for thousands less and a far ranging dealer support network, maybe something to be considered next time. Those who always come to the defense of the company over the riders/customers are at least being naive if not stupid, regardless of different opinions on controversial subjects.

But that's why I am still in the BMW fold. I feel their product is better for me. That may change in the future. I just wish they had the same, or close to the same, regard for their customers as their customers sometimes blindly have for them.

stay safe
John

 

[pch123]

I deal everyday with Corporate Lawyers
. They have a job to do and when let loose to do that job" protect the corporate body " they can be rather insensitive to say the least. but do their job they do.
So a Corporate response is really just the start of the game.
I have a 2008 rt with 96k kms on the clock and never had a fuel strip issue. Consideringhow many of these bikes there are ( and i know a fair few who also havent had an issue ) i am lost as to why some people will have 3 or 4 failures over several years. guys it has to be something to do with the enviroment of operation. Just has to.

Some of the over the top over passionate condemnation probably scews the argument fairly heavily.
The comments from some people really indicate, if they were measured, they should immeadiatedly sell the bike and move on to another brand, but there is little evidence of that strong an actual reaction.

We all like to blow off steam over consumer issues. I have done the same thing.

Does anyone have an ACTUAL number or percentage of failures that have happened by region, country or any other reasonably analytical method? I agree with Alfredo2 lots of consumer issues in this modern life.
Maybe peoples requirements for perfection need to be tempered some how.

Fuel strips are obviously a PIA to a currently unknown number of owners. One letter from a corporate lawyer does not overtake all the good dealer and manufacturer relationship issues that have been solved.
Regards

 

[cjack]

I have a 2008 rt with 96k kms on the clock and never had a fuel strip issue. Consideringhow many of these bikes there are ( and i know a fair few who also havent had an issue ) i am lost as to why some people will have 3 or 4 failures over several years. guys it has to be something to do with the enviroment of operation.

Well...just because you have no data, doesn't mean you're wrong.
But my wife's K12S had 10 miles on it with German gas when it failed. It's on it's third strip now. My S is on the third I think.
Say you have a bad strip because there is a particularly bad batch delivered to BMW parts. Like the three bad batches of key antennas say. And you have one replaced...with another one from that batch...and maybe another. You're drawing from that batch. The only environment common to that scenario is BMW.
If they don't throw them all away and they are not all doomed to fail, say just a tenth of them, I can see the kind of experiences we've seen.

 

[chasman]

Last year I had three fuel strips replaced in my '09 R1200GSA. One in May and two in August...the first one replaced in August (at the dealer) would not calibrate (yes they must be calibrated) so the dealer installed a second strip. All were covered under the BMW two year parts warranty. The point is the fuel strip can be bad before it is installed. Good luck everyone.

 

[cjack]

I haven't calibrated the last two I bought. I measured the resistance of the sensor and they were very close to what failed and are nominal in the spread of values. Anyway, the non-calibration strip is about the best I've had as to calibration.
YMMV

 

[jaherbst]

hey, dwestly thanks.
>you were just not a proficient enough rider to pull in the clutch during the emergency<
Yes. And the rational for that--pulling in the clutch during an emergency-- is what? I ask that seriously. So you keep moving faster? Have more momentum? Truly no sarcasm intended. Why is that a better course of action than staying in the same gear to bleed off a little speed?
Someone said to prevent the rear from locking up?


But my riding skills or lack of them are not the issue here. It is the response of the dealer and corporate to this.
Would the members sign away all right for any and all issues without limitation for $296?
Sounds like a poor choice to me.
You may take comfort from their response. It sounds a lot like We Don't Care; we have more KoolAde than complaints.


John

You have not named the dealer! This would be helpful for anyone buying from him. I would have to blame him the most he did nothing for you.

I have a 08RT that has had eight failures. My dealer took care of it and was paid by BMWNA. It is called a good will gesture. My last several occurred long after warranty.

I feel some of the above remarks were certainly uncalled for by some of this group and for that I apologize. Wait until this happens to them and they will squeal like the three little pigs!

Jack

 

[deilenberger]

When the fuel strip fails, the yellow warning triangle lights up. And the display repeatedly flashes "FUEL" or some such thing. I would think that this is enough of a safety issue...what other warning(s) might be masked by this false fuel warning? That to me is the worst of it, not just having no electronic fuel gauge. I think if I could turn that fuel warning off in the event of a fuel strip failure, I might be half satisfied and use the odometer as I have for over 40 years on BMWs.

Jack,

That isn't always the case (I'm on fuel strip #7).. sometimes the level just stops changing.. it can show 1/2 tank and all is well with the world with a bone dry tank. BTDT on the bike I was going to buy on the final test ride. I bought a different one (not that is has behaved any better with regards to fuel strips.)

 

[deilenberger]

I deal everyday with Corporate Lawyers
. They have a job to do and when let loose to do that job" protect the corporate body " they can be rather insensitive to say the least. but do their job they do.
So a Corporate response is really just the start of the game.
I have a 2008 rt with 96k kms on the clock and never had a fuel strip issue. Consideringhow many of these bikes there are ( and i know a fair few who also havent had an issue ) i am lost as to why some people will have 3 or 4 failures over several years. guys it has to be something to do with the enviroment of operation. Just has to.

Any ideas on what the environmental difference might be? I fill the tank with name brand fuel, I ride until it gets low and I repeat. The bike is normally garaged in a heated garage. I ride all year (hot, comfortable and cold.) Not quite sure what environmental change I could make to avoid the problem.

Some of the over the top over passionate condemnation probably scews the argument fairly heavily.
The comments from some people really indicate, if they were measured, they should immeadiatedly sell the bike and move on to another brand, but there is little evidence of that strong an actual reaction.

We all like to blow off steam over consumer issues. I have done the same thing.

Does anyone have an ACTUAL number or percentage of failures that have happened by region, country or any other reasonably analytical method?

Can you think of one source of these numbers? I can. It's BMW-Motorrad. Do you think anyone will ever get to see them outside Motorrad? I don't.

I agree with Alfredo2 lots of consumer issues in this modern life.
Maybe peoples requirements for perfection need to be tempered some how.

Fuel strips are obviously a PIA to a currently unknown number of owners. One letter from a corporate lawyer does not overtake all the good dealer and manufacturer relationship issues that have been solved.
Regards

I'm not looking for perfection, I'm looking at getting what I paid for. The OBC was an extra-cost option on the R1200R in 2007. I paid the extra money for it. When the fuel strip fails - the OBC becomes about useless for any fuel related information. There is what's called an "Implied Warranty of Fitness" - which briefly means if a company sells you a product that it says does XYZ, it actually has to do XYZ. In this case - BMW has failed to do so. And they continue selling bikes with the defective equipment (ie - a 2013 R1200R still comes with the fuel strip based system) despite what has to be overwhelming evidence that the system simply IS defective.

I believe the complaint I would have with this offer is - it absolves BMW from any claims against it for any reason whatsoever (even not at all related to the fuel strip) as of the date of the agreement. That means there could be some other underlying safety issue with the bike, even one BMW knows about - that could cause injury or loss to the original poster, and if he accepted this agreement he would be signing away any recourse he might have to make a claim against BMW. If the limitation was just to any damages/injuries due to the fuel strip failure - that might be reasonable (and to me acceptable) - but that's not what was proffered by BMW.

 

[deilenberger]

Last year I had three fuel strips replaced in my '09 R1200GSA. One in May and two in August...the first one replaced in August (at the dealer) would not calibrate (yes they must be calibrated) so the dealer installed a second strip. All were covered under the BMW two year parts warranty. The point is the fuel strip can be bad before it is installed. Good luck everyone.

Indeed, my latest is a replacement for a faulty replacement that never worked - right out of the box. It's rather evident to me this is an issue with quality control and engineering, not with environment, fuel used, owners bad breath.. whatever.

BMW has a tradition of avoiding blame for these sort of failures. The usual denial starts off with "It's the owners fault" - moves on to "It's the fuel/oil/air/whatever in your country" and finally they go silent. I think we've reached the silent stage on fuel strips. I asked the service manager at a dealership what BMW intended to do about the fuel strip problem. His reply was "keep on replacing them.." They had no plan to fix the problem. For examples of the same pattern of responses from BMW - go back to /5 short-wheelbase bikes doing a death wobble, look at early K bike clutch splines, hexhead EWS failures, hexhhead rear-drive failures. Some of these things they eventually fixed, but the only one I can remember a campaign on was the EWS system, I'm guessing because it started getting a lot of exposure in national bike magazines. In some instances they have helped out customers with the problems, but always with the non-disclosure agreement to just what the agreement was. To me - it's really interesting to actually see what they ask of the customer in return for them doing the "right thing."..

 

[Anders]

A vintage buff enters the fray!

Why on earth does anyone want a fuel gauge on a motorcycle? They add to the cost of the bike and are one more thing to break down. And sometimes those breakdowns result in unresolved squabbles and animosity with dealers etc. Sound systems on big touring rigs always make me smile in wonderment. How can the sound quality be anything other than poor? GPS? Are you kidding me? Who needs this crap? But how about oil temp and pressure gauges (not idiot lights) instead.

My first BMW was a new LWB 1973 R75/5 and it had all the amenities I needed. In 25 years of ownership the only thing I added was one of Craig Vetters fairings. And I never ran out of gas with it! I love some of the new stuff like fuel injection, higher quality of materials in everything from piston rings to tires and improved perfomance and mechanical efficiency. Give me as much of that as I can get. But the gadgets, gizmos and geegaws don't add value and I hate paying for them.

 

[cjack]

Why on earth does anyone want a fuel gauge on a motorcycle? They add to the cost of the bike and are one more thing to break down. And sometimes those breakdowns result in unresolved squabbles and animosity with dealers etc. Sound systems on big touring rigs always make me smile in wonderment. How can the sound quality be anything other than poor? GPS? Are you kidding me? Who needs this crap? But how about oil temp and pressure gauges (not idiot lights) instead.

My first BMW was a new LWB 1973 R75/5 and it had all the amenities I needed. In 25 years of ownership the only thing I added was one of Craig Vetters fairings. And I never ran out of gas with it! I love some of the new stuff like fuel injection, higher quality of materials in everything from piston rings to tires and improved perfomance and mechanical efficiency. Give me as much of that as I can get. But the gadgets, gizmos and geegaws don't add value and I hate paying for them.

Ok fine. You're so right. How do I turn it off?