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1964 R69S BMW locking gas cap problem
- Thread starter 101r69s
- Start date
I found some older catalogs, one from Butler & Smith and one from Flanders. The B&S image doesn't look anything like what you show, while the Flanders offering does. In both cases the key shown is more of a standard key shape. However, your image almost looks like it would take the "nail" ignition key right down the center.
https://bmwdean.com/butlerandsmith.htm
https://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/flanders/page14.jpg
https://bmwdean.com/butlerandsmith.htm
https://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/flanders/page14.jpg
Thanks for the catalogs, I love looking at that kind of stuff!
I agree that the Flanders does look like the same style of lock and that could also be what the key looks like on the Flanders page. I'd sure like to confirm what the key is supposed to look like because I'm not sure if what I'm looking at on my cap is the actual keyway or a different part of the internal mechanism. The outer part of the cap with the rain flap can be turned some and the internals kind of stay in place so we may not be actually looking at the keyway.
I think that I could spin the outer part of the cap and see if it would line up with a different internal part... maybe an actual keyway, but I don't want to wrench on it before I have a better idea of what I may be in for... I'm guessing that I may only have one good shot at this before the drill comes out and that will be that!
Anyway, thanks again for the info!
I agree that the Flanders does look like the same style of lock and that could also be what the key looks like on the Flanders page. I'd sure like to confirm what the key is supposed to look like because I'm not sure if what I'm looking at on my cap is the actual keyway or a different part of the internal mechanism. The outer part of the cap with the rain flap can be turned some and the internals kind of stay in place so we may not be actually looking at the keyway.
I think that I could spin the outer part of the cap and see if it would line up with a different internal part... maybe an actual keyway, but I don't want to wrench on it before I have a better idea of what I may be in for... I'm guessing that I may only have one good shot at this before the drill comes out and that will be that!
Anyway, thanks again for the info!
Well, the solution to this was to stick a screwdriver into the lock and start prying on the cap. This isn't how I wanted it to end but after trying multiple times and walking away before destroying it, I finally ended up with "I need to get this off!".
I had tried to grind off the cap rivets thinking that I may be able to pop the chrome top off and get to the lock mechanism but the rain flap rivet was still holding things together. So, I went ahead and ground off the rain flap rivet to no avail..., the chrome top still would not just come off of the top of the cap. I had still been thinking that if I could get the cap off, I could replace the rivets and still save the original locking cap if I could fix the lock and have a key made.
Sometimes my brain gets "locked" into "I can do this" mode and common sense goes out the window. If I wasn't retired and still in Wisconsin's winter, I wouldn't have wasted this much time on this. So, I'm posting this as my experience to help others avoid what I've tried to do and gone through.
I had tried to grind off the cap rivets thinking that I may be able to pop the chrome top off and get to the lock mechanism but the rain flap rivet was still holding things together. So, I went ahead and ground off the rain flap rivet to no avail..., the chrome top still would not just come off of the top of the cap. I had still been thinking that if I could get the cap off, I could replace the rivets and still save the original locking cap if I could fix the lock and have a key made.
Sometimes my brain gets "locked" into "I can do this" mode and common sense goes out the window. If I wasn't retired and still in Wisconsin's winter, I wouldn't have wasted this much time on this. So, I'm posting this as my experience to help others avoid what I've tried to do and gone through.
Attachments
So, still no joy? The gas cap is still stuck?
Here's an old thread on the Vintage BMW forum with someone who had the same problem. Doesn't appear that there was any solution. I posted about my aftermarket cap with "HK on the top. The locking mechanism uses the key that I initially posted.
https://vintagebmw.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79189#p79189
Here's an old thread on the Vintage BMW forum with someone who had the same problem. Doesn't appear that there was any solution. I posted about my aftermarket cap with "HK on the top. The locking mechanism uses the key that I initially posted.
https://vintagebmw.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79189#p79189
No, it's off and laying on the table in the shot after I worked my magic with a large screwdriver!
I had gotten to the point where I needed to know what condition the gas tank was in... which wasn't good. It will be going in for a cleanup and sealing to bring it back into driving condition.
The inside of the tank had some rust and garbage in it along with about a gallon of old gas that smells like paint thinner. I could probably... maybe... clean it up and reseal it myself but on this one I'd prefer that it's professionally done right. So, off it goes.
Of course, this means that the fuel petcock and carbs will need rebuilding, replacing the fuel lines and adding line filters to make it all right and proper for some distance riding when done. Old gas and rust is never good so I'm not sure how long this bike has sat in storage. A descent guess would be 3 to 5 years without fuel treatment and probably some ethanol based gas, 10% in Wisconsin is the standard. It will never see that stuff again!
It was actually the only one out of 4 collector bikes at the auction that had 2020, fairly recent, license plate sticker on it so I had hoped that it had been ridden on a regular basis up until the owner had passed about 2 years ago. Up until then the storage area had been climate controlled, so I'm told. Apparently, he had bought this bike back in the early 80's after he had built his "showroom shop" to line up his goodies in. He had a lot of goodies. He was a wealthy man who liked his toys.
I had gotten to the point where I needed to know what condition the gas tank was in... which wasn't good. It will be going in for a cleanup and sealing to bring it back into driving condition.
The inside of the tank had some rust and garbage in it along with about a gallon of old gas that smells like paint thinner. I could probably... maybe... clean it up and reseal it myself but on this one I'd prefer that it's professionally done right. So, off it goes.
Of course, this means that the fuel petcock and carbs will need rebuilding, replacing the fuel lines and adding line filters to make it all right and proper for some distance riding when done. Old gas and rust is never good so I'm not sure how long this bike has sat in storage. A descent guess would be 3 to 5 years without fuel treatment and probably some ethanol based gas, 10% in Wisconsin is the standard. It will never see that stuff again!
It was actually the only one out of 4 collector bikes at the auction that had 2020, fairly recent, license plate sticker on it so I had hoped that it had been ridden on a regular basis up until the owner had passed about 2 years ago. Up until then the storage area had been climate controlled, so I'm told. Apparently, he had bought this bike back in the early 80's after he had built his "showroom shop" to line up his goodies in. He had a lot of goodies. He was a wealthy man who liked his toys.
Thanks Kurt,
Yes, looks like he had the same problem as me but the keyway in mine was also screwed up. It doesn't say if he found a way to open his. I do agree that it's a type of skeleton key and you or a locksmith should be able to pick it. I was able to line up an Allen wrench inside of mine with the hole at the bottom of the keyway and I'm guessing that this may have worked except for the fact that the bottom side of the gas cap was rusted and the latches would not move back and forth... so basically, I was screwed from the start and just should have pried it off from the beginning.
In prying it loose, I stuck a fairly large screwdriver into the keyway and enlarged the keyway to get better side to side leverage. I was trying to break the latches loose from the cap without screwing up the gas tank mating surfaces. This did work as one of the two latches gave way and I was able to work the cap free without damaging the tank's mating surface.
so goes life...
Just as a followup and closing, I think that the key that would have fit my tank is shown on your Flanders link above. I believe that mine would have been this lock and key combo.... kind of like a skeleton key. This may be helpful to someone else in the future.
Good luck to anyone else that may have this issue down the road! Hopefully someone else has not tried to open yours in the past, and in doing so failed and ruined the lock.
