Getting my old /2 road worthy ...

[ME2SC]

So, sadly, it's now sat for a couple years in my garage. It was sitting for a number more before I bought it. The seller got it from an estate, went through and did some maintenance including filters, fluids, plugs, etc., and sold it as a running bike "needing nothing." Thankfully, I knew to manage my expectations. Here's the good, the bad, and the ugly ...

The good:
It's a matching number '69 R60/2, and being a /2 alone is good in my book.
It's almost 100% original, including paint. Solo seat and rear rack are replacements, but that's not a big deal.
It only has 18k miles on the odometer, and all of them--which amounts to not many--since 1982 are documented via past registrations (that were supplied at time of sale).

The bad:
It did sit for years only being started and run up and down a driveway occasionally. That's never great, but maybe not completely bad either.
It starts, but runs kinda rough and the right carb sticks and pees gas all over the place. I am assuming I need to take the carbs off and at least clean them, if not get a rebuild kit.
The front brake cable parted. I ordered a new one, but that twin leading shoe drum system is a deceptively complex bugger. One thinks, "Oh, drum brake. That's simple!" Not so much.
There is no evidence of any lower end maintenance like cleaning the slingers or checking anything beyond the valve gear. How much of a concern should that be?

The ugly:
There is a dent in the tank where the transport company clunked it. It's not massive, and we worked out compensation, but it is a drag that it happened. Can it be popped out? Dunno.

The worst part is that I still can't find a local indie shop to work on it, so I'm faced with a 2+ hr trip each way to a reliable wrench. I would be willing to make that trip but don't have a truck/trailer and I am not too keen to entrust anyone else to transport it given the tank damage, etc. Harrumph.

In short, I love this bike, and really, REALLY want to get it on the road to start taking it to bike nights, on back road rambles, and maybe some DGR/charity rides in the future. I once had a beautiful '61 R60/2 ... that I sold in the mid-'90s and STILL lament doing so to this day.

Tips, suggestions, pointers, and words of encouragement are appreciated ...

 

[20774]

The bad: As for the carbs peeing, it could be that the floats don't float anymore. The original brass floats can crack which lets gas flood them...they sink and don't shut fuel flow off. But yeah, you probably will need to take them apart and be sure that the jets are free/clear. Nothing really scary about them.

As for the front brakes, Duane Ausherman has a page on brakes and discusses the /5 but they're basically the same type of brake. IIRC, what you want is that when you pull the hand lever, the front lever on the brake moves first, followed then by the rear lever. I think Duane covers it well.

As for slingers, it could be a guessing game. Low mileage suggests not much has happened to the slingers. BUT...with so few miles and not being run very much, the oil has been sludging off and possibly filling up the slingers. There's no inspection for them. I had some 27K miles on my R69S and decided to mechanically restore it and get it going. Then after a year or so, noticing other things that needed to be done, I went through the engine. I had someone do the bottom end and they also looked over the valves/seats and installed unleaded components. So, it's peace of mind. I know that I don't have to worry about it anymore, just change the oil on a regular basis.

The ugly: For the dent, you'll need to get with a local shop that deals with that sort of thing. I'd put it at a low priority for the time being...it's part of the patina. But that's your call.

You can expand your horizons by looking at the Vintage BMWMO club (https://vintagebmw.org/forum/). It used to be free to join, but because of spammers, etc., we've gone to a paid situation. Even still, you can check out the Library function and look at all of the resources that are available.

As for other resources, on a very old "list" there is (was) a listing for a shop in Lexington named Machinery and Design. They had listed their experience as /2 to Present. Not sure who you are looking at now...

 

[69ZEFF65]

Sounds like a real treasure with a thoughtful owner, can you post some pictures especially of the gas tank dent. You might get some helpful ideas on fixing it. Get a Barrington /2 repair manual and some basic tools and you could eventually become confident in making some of the repairs yourself. One thing to do that you can probably do yourself is to drop the oil pan and determine the amount of sludge in the pan as well as check for metal debris with a magnet, this could give you an idea of the condition of the slingers. A lot of sludge plan on a tear down, small amount no metal bits you would probably good to go for a while. Get a carb rebuild gasket set and plastic floats from Vintage BMW motorcycle parts, Euro Motrad Electrics and as a first step in getting to know your /2 rebuild the carbs and do a complete tune-up. At some point in time you be stuck road side with a problem and be very happy you did some homework learning about some basic repairs. I obtained a '66 R 50/2 with only 13,000 miles on it, I did a complete motor rebuild and found the slingers packed solid. A lot of that decision to do the slingers would revolve around any sign of a problem and how you intend to ride the bike. Short trips around town with an occasion trip through nature or do you plan on long trips at higher speeds. There is more to consider regarding the slingers especially if you don't do any of the work your self, it can get expensive fast and take a while do to a limited number of trusted shops. Kurt has a very good suggestion looking into the Vintage bmw forum.

 

[20774]

I might have a different opinion on the presence of sludge in the oil sump. In olden days, the oils were not designed to hold things in suspension once the engine was shut down after a ride. What would happen is that the sludge would easily settle in the pan and more or less stay there the next time the bike was run. I had heard that the bikes in those days would go to nearly 100K miles before the slingers needed service. But the newer oils are designed to hold the particulates in suspension, only to expose the slingers over and over to the stuff. Nothing would settle in the pan.

As you indicated you had a bike with 13K on it and the slingers were full. My R69S had about 27K on it and the slingers were also full. I think it's a definite unknown regarding what might be happening...a lot depends on the bikes history which we typically don't know. That's why I did what I could to get the bike running, enjoy it and see what else needed tending to, and then do the bottom end. With proper servicing, I certainly never expect to have to worry about that for many many miles.

 

[kbasa]

So, sadly, it's now sat for a couple years in my garage. It was sitting for a number more before I bought it. The seller got it from an estate, went through and did some maintenance including filters, fluids, plugs, etc., and sold it as a running bike "needing nothing." Thankfully, I knew to manage my expectations. Here's the good, the bad, and the ugly ...

The good:
It's a matching number '69 R60/2, and being a /2 alone is good in my book.
It's almost 100% original, including paint. Solo seat and rear rack are replacements, but that's not a big deal.
It only has 18k miles on the odometer, and all of them--which amounts to not many--since 1982 are documented via past registrations (that were supplied at time of sale).

The bad:
It did sit for years only being started and run up and down a driveway occasionally. That's never great, but maybe not completely bad either.
It starts, but runs kinda rough and the right carb sticks and pees gas all over the place. I am assuming I need to take the carbs off and at least clean them, if not get a rebuild kit.
The front brake cable parted. I ordered a new one, but that twin leading shoe drum system is a deceptively complex bugger. One thinks, "Oh, drum brake. That's simple!" Not so much.
There is no evidence of any lower end maintenance like cleaning the slingers or checking anything beyond the valve gear. How much of a concern should that be?

The ugly:
There is a dent in the tank where the transport company clunked it. It's not massive, and we worked out compensation, but it is a drag that it happened. Can it be popped out? Dunno.

The worst part is that I still can't find a local indie shop to work on it, so I'm faced with a 2+ hr trip each way to a reliable wrench. I would be willing to make that trip but don't have a truck/trailer and I am not too keen to entrust anyone else to transport it given the tank damage, etc. Harrumph.

In short, I love this bike, and really, REALLY want to get it on the road to start taking it to bike nights, on back road rambles, and maybe some DGR/charity rides in the future. I once had a beautiful '61 R60/2 ... that I sold in the mid-'90s and STILL lament doing so to this day.

Tips, suggestions, pointers, and words of encouragement are appreciated ...

They’re not complicated and if you’re halfway mechanical you can maintain it.

Those Bings will need a new float, I bet. An ultrasonic cleaner and PineSol will make those gas stained carbs look new.

The drum brakes works by first loading up the front shoe, then the rear shoe on the drum. The cable first pulls the front lever, then the rear. By adjusting the cable length, you control when the second brake shoe actuates. It’s not too bad, but getting the brake shoes off is a PITA if you ever have to do that.

Congratulations!

 

[ME2SC]

Port side, not too bad. Just a little ding above the tool box ...


Starboard is a different story. Quick and dirty black paint touch up so it isn't TOTALLY glaring, but still ... yeesh.


The bike is certainly no beauty show queen anyway, but the paint is (i believe) original ... so I'm half-inclined to just let it be.

 

[20774]

Patina is patina!! Shows it's been around the block!

What's this under the seat? Looks like a heavy coil spring. Does it support the t-bar that the seat is mounted on? Doesn't seem to be stock that I know of.

 

[ME2SC]

Good eye. That theres a Lardassco supplemental support. Those old Denfields were never intended to deal with a 1/8th ton load ...

 

[69ZEFF65]

Initially the Earles Fork twins (55-56) had a coil spring support for the seat instead of the rubber and steel silent block. I have one on my '55 R 50

 

[olironrider]

Regarding the front brake shoes, actuating levers: the rear lever moves first then, the front lever. The tension springs within the backing plate are two different strengths: forward spring is the stronger spring; rearward spring the weaker so, upon actuating the front brake lever, the Bowden sheath moves first at the rearward lever as it cannot overcome the front spring. Once the rear shoe has contacted the brake drum, further pulling by the actual wire cable takes-up the pre-set slack of 4mm (adjusting cam) in the forward lever, actuating forward shoe it into the drum.

Reference BMWAG Repair Manual 01 51 9 099 051, Page 161..

 

[20774]

Regarding the front brake shoes, actuating levers: the rear lever moves first then, the front lever

I thought the front lever moved first, then the rear lever. kbasa thought so too:

Getting my old /2 road worthy ...

So, sadly, it's now sat for a couple years in my garage. It was sitting for a number more before I bought it. The seller got it from an estate, went through and did some maintenance including filters, fluids, plugs, etc., and sold it as a running bike "needing nothing." Thankfully, I knew to...

forums.bmwmoa.org

Since these are leading shoe brakes, you want the front to bite first.

 

[olironrider]

… they are called “leading shoe brakes” because, the first/leading edge of each brake shoe/lining is what makes contact with the rotating brake drum. Each brake lining has its own pivot pin and each lining is operated individually, though “timed” to one another, by a lever… in fact, having two “leading shoes”. The shoes tend to react from that contact and are “pulled” into the drum, somewhat a “powered” brake. This takes into consideration the a hand brake has less available force to input than the foot brake.

All this activity in the front leading shoe brake becomes null when, you apply the front brake going backwards ! The shoes are pushed away from the drum and quite an amount of additional force must be applied to the hand lever… try it some time; don’t drop the bike.

Note that the rear brake is not “leading shoe” type: single pivot point shared by the two shoes, actuated by a single point lever for both shoes: expanding shoe brakes or sometimes called: leading/trailing shoe brakes. The action/reaction of the shoes cancels out the tendency of one shoe to pull away from the drum while the other is being forced into the drum, equalizing them out but less effective. The force available by the leg/foot is far greater than the hand/fingers and, “standing on the brake(s)” overcomes that issue.

Look at the R27 front brake: two shoes, single fixed pivot for the two shoes, single lever actuating both shoes… expanding shoe brakes. If you’ve not ridden that type front brake, you will appreciate leading shoe, or even double leading shoe (four lined shoes) brakes ! Much lead time is required for braking on the R27 !

 

[olironrider]

… perhaps you all may recall the, “Rip van Winkle Bike” featured a few years ago in Owner’s News ? Ran when parked but stored in very poor conditions for 30+ years.

Long story shortened: much later when I worked on that “rolling death threat” 1973 R 75/5 for over a hundred hours, to get it roadworthy, I learned it had been ridden to the rally in Doswell, VA almost out-of-the shed ! While I was looking it over at the rally (seeing many other faults on it), the rider commented on the “lousy front brake”.

Later in my shop, while I was working through the front end, I found the forward brake camshaft of the twin leading shoe set-up, seized in the backing plate ! Only the rearward brake camshaft was applying braking force !

Many hours of my labor were spent on getting the front brake full serviceable, much to the delight of the rider; who paled noticeably when informed of riding with only half of the front brake functioning ! If that had been an expanding shoe brake versa twin leading shoe brake, every braking action would have induced panic.

Back to the original thread…

 

[ME2SC]

Thanks olironrider for chiming in.

A second bit of information I found in my search (this from Duane Ausherman's website) yields this quote regarding the /2 twin leading shoe brakes:

"... Slowly pull the front brake hand lever while watching the right side of the drum brake. A few things should be observed. The two arms should move about the same amount. They should move easily and without any jerky motion. The rear arm should move forward first, and when it stops, the forward arm should begin to move rearward. ... If you find that the front arm moves first and then the rear arm, that is because the brake springs are installed incorrectly."

This all makes me wonder how many other folks are riding around on improperly set-up drum brakes and thinking that it's the design that is so bad ... when it's actually rigged bass-ackwards.

 

[olironrider]

… delighted to join the thread

As I don’t heal as well now as when younger, I’ve resisted doing a “stoppy” with my ‘71 R 75/5 and ‘73 R 60/5, with their stock front drum brakes set-up properly ! I know I can out-stop a front single-disc; a front dual-disc ATE might be a problem ?

 

[20774]

A second bit of information I found in my search (this from Duane Ausherman's website) yields this quote regarding the /2 twin leading shoe brakes:

"... Slowly pull the front brake hand lever while watching the right side of the drum brake. A few things should be observed. The two arms should move about the same amount. They should move easily and without any jerky motion. The rear arm should move forward first, and when it stops, the forward arm should begin to move rearward. ... If you find that the front arm moves first and then the rear arm, that is because the brake springs are installed incorrectly."

This all makes me wonder how many other folks are riding around on improperly set-up drum brakes and thinking that it's the design that is so bad ... when it's actually rigged bass-ackwards.

I guess I must have read Duane's site many years ago! I just checked my R69S and indeed, the rear lever moves first. I have to say I don't understand the mechanics involved, but I've been riding the bike and have good confidence in my front brakes.