Sidecar, Season ONE!

[SFAULKNER68]

I meant it the way I wrote it.

So, yes, when an experienced hacker suggests that driving a rig has very little in common with riding a bike, it would be good to pay attention.

pmdave

Thanks Dave. I'm not sure why I read the sentence originally meaning the opposite of what you intended. It made sense after I re-read it but thanks for clarifying.

I agree, there is nothing in common between operating a rig and a two-wheeled motorcycle. It is surprising to think anyone would ever say they are similar but I'm sure it happens, too often! As I mentioned, I was lucky to immediately lock on to those saying there was nothing in common, then began researching and reading the why's long before I jumped on a rig.

I look forward to Season TWO and should have a couple of classes under my belt by the time summer rolls around.

Cheers, happy and safe riding to everyone!

 

[pmdave]

Good on you, Colorado, for getting some S/TEP instructors trained.

Gradually, more states are figuring out that there are three-wheeled motorcyclists, and they deserve training just as much as novice riders on two-wheelers.

Some state motorcycle safety coordinators are still resisting any involvement with three-wheeled motorcycles, other than allowing a trike or sidecar driver to take the two-wheeler course. The worst case scenario is allowing a rider to bring their own three-wheeler to an ERC and expecting the rider to learn anything useful. Truth is, after the course, the sidecarist must unlearn much of what was taught.

My position is that if "motorcycle" in any state is defined as having "...not more than three wheels..." then the state motorcycle safety program should deal with three-wheeled motorcycles. A few years ago several state coordinators just about started WWIII over my suggestion that they were in violation of the Citizens With Disabilities Act, for assuming a disabled person would have to take a course (or pass a license test) on a two-wheeler.

pmdave

 

[glenfiddich]

Vermont is like that. Not a peep about S/TEP around here. So basically I read the Yellow Book several times, set up a course at the high school parking lot and practiced, practiced, practiced.

Four months and 11k miles later I think I have it pretty much down, and have the same intuitive feeling on three wheels that I do on two, but would still like to participate in some sort of professional training.

 

[pmdave]

Well, your situation is exactly why the "yellow book" was published by the Sidecar Safety Program. There are so few sidecarists in any geographical area needing training that it's generally not practical to get enough studends for a course.

However, some states have made a go of it, especially by including trikes to get the student numbers up. The advantage of a course is having a trained instructor observing your technique and offering suggestions.

You might consider a trip to Virginia, where the S/TEP is offered by the MSLVI on a regular basis. The guy in the know is Cundiff Simmons. Or, fly out to Seattle and take it from ESC. Sometimes you can find really cheap flights.

I'm aware of a number of "do-it-yourself" hackers who learned to drive with the yellow book. The skills are all in there, so it's a matter of keeping your nose to the grindstone and practicing enough to develop the right "muscle memory." Definitely do ALL the exsercises, including flying the chair.

pmdave

 

[grafikfeat]

...Four months and 11k miles later I think I have it pretty much down, and have the same intuitive feeling on three wheels that I do on two, but would still like to participate in some sort of professional training.

I took the course out here prior to taking mine out on the highways... Glad I did.
Like college prepares you for your first job I felt the training prepared me for my first ride.
After that it's up to me to be vigilant on my 'safety/experience'.
Be it daily riding or weekend practice sessions, or both!
My next lesson plan is to head to the Chelan Rally here in WA State. I wanna see what some ol' timers are doin'!
Old timer as in saddle time not age... As I've found sidecaring strips years off!

 

[pmdave]

The Chelan Rally site you referenced says "2010." Is this a typo and the rally will really be in 2011, or did the rally take place already? And, is there a plan to repeat it in 2011?

pmdave

 

[grafikfeat]

The Chelan Rally site you referenced says "2010."
Is this a typo and the rally will really be in 2011, or did the rally take place already?
And, is there a plan to repeat it in 2011?
pmdave

Yes, that's last rally's site.
I hope they repeat.
I have a few emails out to see if it is in fact going to repeat.
I'll post what I hear back...

 

[Walking Eagle]

Three is a good cosmic number

Greetings, all --

Reading this word-crafty and eloquent thread, plus looking at all the great pix reminds me (again) why I drive sidecars. (Note: Not to be a PC scold, here, but DRIVE is the correct term, lads, and also helps correct the dangerous notion that this 3-wheel craziness is the same as riding a bike. Countersteering is definitely OUT of the picture.)

First, it's good to be here on this forum. My rig is an '80 Naked Wing w/ Watsonian Monaco and Unit front forks. "My other ride" as the sticker says, is a '94 R1100RS, new to me, and she is the love of my life - best 2-wheeler I've ever owned, and there have been many.

Hey! Don't you guys know it's dangerous to ride dogs in the chair???? (Kidding!) My dearly-departed, magical blue merle Aussie, Harvey (yes, named after the Pooka) used to ride the streets of Colorado Springs in the above-mentioned rig. The "danger" came from the distraction that Harvey caused, especially since his natural countenance was that of a huge smile, especially when in the hack. The oncoming cage drivers started to point, tell their children, weave, smile, laugh as soon as they saw us coming, and more than one came close to the centerline. It was definitely worth the risk to give the boy a ride every so often, and we made a LOT of people smile.

I bought the rig with the standard forks installed. Rode it for a few months back in the late-90s, but then heard about the wonderment of a leading-link front end, and the wonders to be found in corners when thus equipped. Long story short, anybody who can afford to buy rig-specific front ends should do it, IMHO. For me, the difference in steering forces and "feel" (OOOOOOoooooo, yeah) was dramatic. I added an old steering damper from a VW - cheap and effective, and now Old Son corners like crazy (to match the driver), and he has the "feel " of rack-and-pinion. Lots and lots of side-force on forks in corners, and they aren't usually built for that.

I've run out of time for now, but -- as the AMA Person of the Year sez: "I'll be back." I just brought Old Son back from the dead after many years in the barn, and I'm still on (another) honeymoon.

Regards to all you insane people.

Walking Eagle

 

[glenfiddich]

Greetings, all --

Reading this word-crafty and eloquent thread, plus looking at all the great pix reminds me (again) why I drive sidecars. (Note: Not to be a PC scold, here, but DRIVE is the correct term, lads,

I thought sidecars were herded..?

 

[SFAULKNER68]

I thought sidecars were herded..?

...agreed, the term driving is correct and makes the story read much better. Thank you. I do, however, like the sound of herding...

Season ONE, Herding
Season TWO, Driving!

One can hope anyway...

 

[pmdave]

Greetings, all --

Reading this word-crafty and eloquent thread, plus looking at all the great pix reminds me (again) why I drive sidecars. (Note: Not to be a PC scold, here, but DRIVE is the correct term, lads, and also helps correct the dangerous notion that this 3-wheel craziness is the same as riding a bike. Countersteering is definitely OUT of the picture.)

Regards to all you insane people.

Walking Eagle

Walking Eagle, good to hear from you, but countersteering does enter the picture. IMHO, a hacker isn't proficient until he/she can lift the car or set it down at any time. And, (**pssssst**) that requires switching between direct and counter steering. That's why FNK hackers are advised to load up the ballast, and then to become experienced, toss it out and learn to drive (herd, shoo, pilot, jam, etc.)

pmdave

 

[BEEMERCHEF]

My main "hook" is to have Spirit with me. Of course one can miss (and misses!) the two wheel experience. Specially when in twisties some great rider passes me and my heart skips a beat! All is compromises. 5 years now into it full time the comfort level is high. Able to go anywhere, stop for photos, you name it. Carry more camping gear...
It is a choice, sometimes the choice for us is not there and yet never a regret.
Be well... Ara & Spirit

 

[Walking Eagle]

So Right. . .

Back at ya, pmDave. . .and others...Hey, this is sidecar PORN at it's BEST

and thanks for reminding me of the need for countersteering. Saaay, isn't this a required skill when introducing someone to The Chair for the first time?

OK, a trip to nostalgia-land. I've only ridden in the chair of this rig one time, and that was the day I bought him ('97?). My friend and then-salesman at Apex Sports in Colorado Springs, Bart Mann (now off to the sky), loaded me into the Watsonian, looked over at me with all innocence, took off at almost WFO, and flipped me in the air after about a 20' roll. Then followed a 30-min rocket-ride, to include sliding sideways through bumpy, litter-strewn vacant lots; getting airborne; and other general insane behaviors too numerous to mention. Thus, what with the twig being bent into the tree and all, how could I honor Bart's memory except by following in his three-wheel tracks? It's not my fault, in other words. I just know that Bart is up there, laughing his ass off.

For those who have not yet found the magic of two-wheel riding on three perfectly good wheels, this tip: Just find a very large paved space, hopefully devoid of any traffic
whatsoever. Turn your baby in a constantly-decreasing radius right turn until physics and centrifugal force takes over and lifts the chair. Stop and change underwear, if necessary. Do it again until it feels good, and when you're ready, keep the chair (and perhaps your terrified passenger) flying as you go off in a straight line, skillfully managing your new moves as you gently steer the rig left-and-right and amaze the onlookers. Orange traffic cones optional, but you may be amazed at what you can do with practice.

We're all having some fun here, but don't skip this fly-the-chair learning step, because it's in aid of long-term survival. In these troubled times, you may need to squeeze through a narrow-passage to escape terr-ists or something. Of far greater import is the knowledge that you have control, even when the third wheel lifts, ah, unexpectedly when you cook a right-hander. . .

Ballast: I usually ballast with about 30-40 lbs. when no passenger aboard. This keeps Old Son feisty and fast in the curves, and lends a more balanced feel to my amateurish efforts at control. I always use body english, even on slow-ish curves to create muscle-memory when on the rig. At my age, I don't want to "forget" how important this is, especially on longer rides when some fatigue sets in, along with the attendant brain-fog. Get lazy with shifting your weight in the turns at your peril.

Just writing about this gets me jazzed. Let's see: Seventy degrees and full sun today, and just ahead of a cold storm-front. . .Yeah, time to ride. (Don't hate me for living in 12-month riding country. Just move.)

Yes, I'll post pix when my failing brain gets some time to read up on the posting pix tutorial. I'm hopeless with this stuff. . .Old Son is very camera-worthy, unlike his pilot.

If anybody reading this is "thinking about" sidecaring. . .stop thinking and just do it. No motoring life is truly complete without giving this thoroughly unique experience a try. Life is very short, is often cruel, and you shouldn't screw around until it's too, too late. Besides, why shouldn't YOU be the one to use the last drop of dino-juice on the planet?

Regards, Triad amigos,

Walking Eagle

 

[grafikfeat]

There are good looking rigs... And there are functional rigs.
This is an example of a good looking functional rig.

 

[grafikfeat]

The Chelan Rally site you referenced says "2010."
Is this a typo and the rally will really be in 2011, or did the rally take place already?
And, is there a plan to repeat it in 2011?
pmdave

I asked if the Chelan Sidecar Rally was going to repeat as CSR3...

Yes.., CSR'3' is on...
Currently working on the schedule and events, which will be pretty close to last years.
May 19th thru the 22nd. Will be updating...

I'll start a new 'thread' for Rally's...

 

[ENFOMAN]

The weather and time I have had today to get a good 100 miler in for riding. I feel I am getting the hang of it and the rig is getting more in my comfort zone with the riding and practice. The Yellow Book is a good reference and has been pulled more than a few times to ensure my countersteers and turns are correctly being accomplished. I feel much more comfortable on a nice country road around here doing speeds in the forties/fifties than pouncing the potholes and cold patches of the poor city streets. For whatever reason, the wide bars like to move around on such and requires a firmer grip. This gets a bit tiring and I stiffen up a bit too much. In time I am sure this will be second nature and not so noticeable. I think I will really like riding this thing for my first season! I know that it sure does turn any kids head and gives excited chatter or in Mommy's car when I pull up to fill up. Gas Mileage will certainly be less, how much more is still to be determined.

 

[pmdave]

Since sidecar rigs are not symmetrical, uneven pavement, changing surface camber, etc. will impart some directional control. IOW, the outfit will weave and dart a bit from side to side.

The "two wheeler" approach is to immediately control any weaves or darting by immediate countersteering. Actually, a two-wheeler balances itself by constantly steering back into a neutral state, but it's the front CP moving, not the rider, so the rider perceives this as the bike going "straight ahead."

But when the hack pilot reverts to this two-wheeler "instant correction" approach, it takes a LOT of energy, because the whole outfit needs to be steered, not just the CPs.

Eventually, the hack pilot learns to relax and let the outfit move around a bit. It's not necessary to follow an absolutely straight line. So it bounces a bit from side to side. Who cares?

Yes on learning to fly the car, ASAP. The secret is that it's steering, not just speed that controls sidecar balance. No need to press folds into your saddle cover.

pmdave

 

[sdpc2]

exactly what Dave said...

the fact that it moved side-to-side is what bothered me the most. And then i remembered what it was like to drive a car in the 70's (yes, i am that old), and i remember the old car kind of doing the same thing... and for the most part, they stayed on the road.

 

[ENFOMAN]

re...exactly what Dave said

Yes, I am that old too... oh the joy! I remember the days. Of course, there will be some expected excessive wear associated with a hack attached, but If I am driving in a predominating potholed area day to day with this seeking of the wheel to find it's center, should I expect even more wear there in the triple tree and front suspension areas?

 

[grafikfeat]

Yes, I am that old too... oh the joy! I remember the days. Of course, there will be some expected excessive wear associated with a hack attached, but If I am driving in a predominating potholed area day to day with this seeking of the wheel to find it's center, should I expect even more wear there in the triple tree and front suspension areas?

Was the rake changed on that "C"?