Market hunting deer

[Frostback]

Thanks for all the interesting stories and commentary on that ON deer colision article (I wrote it). As I said on another board - the level of understanding and appreciation of the role of deer in North America is experiencing a sea change. The elimination of the novelty by seeing so many deer daily, the collision rate, agricultural destruction, role in tick-borne Lyme Disease and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, facilitation of predators moving into urban areas, ornamental damage by browsing and a lower percentage of the public that still likes to hunt means that deer will ultimately lose out in the voting booth as regulations for reductions pop up.

In the mean time, do the mental rehearsals on your response to deer appearing in or near your lane of travel, pick your travel times and routes, anticipate the unseen, get good lights, and know that you can sometimes actually ride over or through a deer if avoidance is impossible.

Be careful out there!

Lee Foote

 

[sedanman]

All of my deer collisions were in cars or trucks. I used to run a gauntlet through a heavy deer strike zone in wee morning hours on my bike. I was HYPER VIGILANT through that area. I also found that beeping the horn regularly reduced the numbers of deer eyes I saw reflecting at me from the margins. And a sustained blast actually made one change direction and run back into the woods.

 

[BCKRider]

Thanks for all the interesting stories and commentary on that ON deer colision article (I wrote it). As I said on another board - the level of understanding and appreciation of the role of deer in North America is experiencing a sea change. The elimination of the novelty by seeing so many deer daily, the collision rate, agricultural destruction, role in tick-borne Lyme Disease and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, facilitation of predators moving into urban areas, ornamental damage by browsing and a lower percentage of the public that still likes to hunt means that deer will ultimately lose out in the voting booth as regulations for reductions pop up.

In the mean time, do the mental rehearsals on your response to deer appearing in or near your lane of travel, pick your travel times and routes, anticipate the unseen, get good lights, and know that you can sometimes actually ride over or through a deer if avoidance is impossible.

Be careful out there!

Lee Foote

As the OP, I want to thank you for the article. I believe general public opinion on deer HAS changed, because the huge population has cost us all a lot of dollars, even if some of us don't know that with certainty. Certainly there may be PETA folk and even some deer hunters who actually like having a ton of deer around, but they are in the minority. Similarly, I have seen the attitude toward Canada geese change in my region. When I shot my first two Canada geese, near where I still live in, around 1975 friends (who enjoyed my duck dinners) were just horrified. "They mate for life!" In fact, farmers who had wet land put out wash tubs on stumps to facilitate breeding. Now there are many thousands of Canada geese around. Many do not migrate. Not just a problem for farmers but everyone who wants to spread a blanket on a beach in the summer - which are all covered with goose ****. The daily bag limit has gone up from 5 to 10 - not that I think it makes much difference. How many geese do you want to eat in a year? How many deer do you want to eat in a year?

That is why I suggested market hunting for deer. It might be an ever brighter idea for Canada geese, as they are less likely to carry diseases. All levels of government are strapped for funds. That is why I don't think any sterilization regimen (and love to know how you sterilize a deer, and what it would cost) would work on any large scale. Critics of my "market hunting" idea have brought up many valid criticisms: 1. If some deer carry diseases which could be passed on to humans through consumption of the meat, how do you screen for that? Governments would be rightly worried. 2. How do you judge the quality of the meat? (I don't hunt deer or any big game, but have been gifted with deer steaks. Some were absolutely gourmet food; some tasted like bad liver. Whether that was the bad processing or the time of year the deer was shot, I don't know.) But to develop a grocery store market for deer, you have to have both a certainty of safety and also quality control. They did that in New Zealand by (very expensively) killing ALL the wild deer that had been introduced to the islands, then farming deer behind fences. When I had a motorcycle tour there several years ago, venison was always on every restaurant dinner menu. Have to presume it was a staple in most homes.

I'm confident that support for eliminating deer in cities (a few years ago, as I pulled up on my bike, I saw Four of them sleeping on a small lawn in the city of Cranbrook, BC in front of my friends duplex he was renting) will increase. Later heard a woman and her small dog had been attacked be a deer. Still later heard that there was a deer eradication program in that city, but don't know the details.

My best guess is that lowering deer numbers will come slowly, especially for us riders away from cities, if at all. Yes, you can do all the right things, but deer are likely to become even more of a hazard in the years to come. Wish I wasn't so pessimistic.

 

[BCKRider]

All of my deer collisions were in cars or trucks. I used to run a gauntlet through a heavy deer strike zone in wee morning hours on my bike. I was HYPER VIGILANT through that area. I also found that beeping the horn regularly reduced the numbers of deer eyes I saw reflecting at me from the margins. And a sustained blast actually made one change direction and run back into the woods.

Maybe a loud horn is helpful, but I wouldn't count on it to prevent deer from jumping out in front of you. Last year I saw several deer feasting on my neighbor's garden. Got out a 12 gauge shotgun and fired a shot over their heads. They all looked up, then went back to eating. When I hit the closest one in the ass with bird shot, she did run and got the rest of the group running. A friend mentioned missing a deer with a 30.06 twice before he nailed it. It just looked up at the noise as bullets went sailing over its head. If you are not a hunter, know that these guns are loud.

If you see a deer that could possibly enter your path, I suggest you get on the brakes hard and forget the horn.

 

[sedanman]

Brakes, evasive maneuvers and the horn. I wasn't counting on the horn to save me from a deer strike but I do believe it helped my odds. I also think that over time it would be less effective as it would become another environmental noise that the deer would become accustomed to (like some herds are not alarmed by gunfire).

 

[36654]

Through out most of this country, we have made it increasingly more difficult for hunters to hunt. Urban development has spread into our wildlife areas so that hunting with a rifle is no longer an option. Private property is next to impossible to get permission to hunt because of liability issues. Fewer people take their kids out into the woods to teach them how to hunt. In a lot of areas hunting is just socially unacceptable. Deer are a food source for predatory species like cougar and wolves. Most of us live in areas that do not have those natural predators or darn few of them. No hunters+no predators=more deer. I read a report recently that stated we currently have more deer in the USA then we did in the 1950's when one of the first real deer surveys was conducted. Deer populations are out of balance. Make sense that we see more deer collisions......

John

1950?

The White Tail Deer was basically eradicated from PA prior to WW-I. Clear cut logging and non-regulated hunting being major factors. The current PA herd was imported from Michigan prior to WW-I to re-establish the herd for recreational hunting. Today, for a number of reasons, the hunting population has drastically declined.

If you want to see less deer, issue commercial hunting licenses and let the hunters sell the meat to processors (i.e., butchers) for retail sale, in my most humble of opinions..........

 

[Paul_F]

Maybe a loud horn is helpful, but I wouldn't count on it to prevent deer from jumping out in front of you.

I have encountered deer frequently at the side of the road, and once, one jumped on the highway, for a few seconds, directly in front of me. Each time I was riding my trusty old K bike, whose brakes have always squealed. In every instance, once the K's brakes began to squeal, the deer have looked in my direction and fortunately have taken off away from the road. Must be the high pitch frequency that gets their attention. Not looking forward to meeting up with Bambi on my R1100 with its non-squealing brakes.

 

[EvryDayRide]

1950?

The White Tail Deer was basically eradicated from PA prior to WW-I. Clear cut logging and non-regulated hunting being major factors. The current PA herd was imported from Michigan prior to WW-I to re-establish the herd for recreational hunting. Today, for a number of reasons, the hunting population has drastically declined.

If you want to see less deer, issue commercial hunting licenses and let the hunters sell the meat to processors (i.e., butchers) for retail sale, in my most humble of opinions..........

I'm good with that. Balance of the species is important to maintain. As with many folks on here, the pendulum has swung in the direction of too many deer........

 

[weschmann]

A deer strike while on a motorcycle can be most painful for the rider and could easily result in a persons demise. Mine resulted in new hips and here I am five years later, up at midnight, chewing on pain pills. A Bambi burger would be more appealing.

I do like the idea of professional hunting and in my area there are several home owned meat markets that still process meat. Alias, several of my neighbors would object to such slaughter.........Come to think of it, they object to about everything. A story just crossed my mine but I'll save it for Billings if you run into me next year.

Hey Jacko, it that a warning for next year? Guess I'll be one of those who by then will have my interest peaked to get the whole "other side of the story"..... Hey, at least your still out there every year moving around on those two wheels. See you in Montana if not before!!!!!

 

[Frostback]

Market hunting has its own set of problems, especially the very vocal opposition from both the anti hunters and the diehard hunters. The soft middle 70% could vote it though but they are mostly apathetic.

Nature hates a vacuum almost as badly as does a house cat. There is some threshold of deer density where the combination of reduction of the highest nutrition plants, parasite load, and disease (density dependent factors) will correct the overabundance through a big die off once a serious winter (density independent factor) hits. Getting to that point means we will be dodging a lot of deer on the roads for a while though.

The other wildlife that rides on the coattails of high deer densities adds another layer of problems. Where I live in Edmonton (a city region area of a million people) we have many many coyotes in town, a pack of 15 wolves within 25 km of the provincial capital building here, the occasional mountain lion and fawn-killing black bears. They thrive and increase in a deer-rich environment.

Yesterday I stopped to view a massive road-killed non-typical buck. This is the borealis subspecies which is the largest white-tailed deer subspecies on earth. Teeth suggested he was > 5 years old, 250-300 lbs, 8 points on one side, 7 on the other, forked brow tines, small palmations between the tines, antler bases over 8 inches around, split main beams with 11 inch interior tines, 20-inch inside spread. The kind of big mature animal that only gets that big in agricultural fringe areas in a bowhunting-only zone (my kind of trophy is 125 lbs raised near grain). A truck had crushed his pelvis and he still made it 200 yards into a field before expiring. I shudder to think what he would have done to a motorcycle but nobody rides bikes on snow at -10 around here.

Lee

 

[36654]

The soft middle 70% could vote it though but they are mostly apathetic.

Nature hates a vacuum almost as badly as does a house cat. There is some threshold of deer density where the combination of reduction of the highest nutrition plants, parasite load, and disease (density dependent factors) will correct the overabundance through a big die off once a serious winter (density independent factor) hits. Getting to that point means we will be dodging a lot of deer on the roads for a while though.

The other wildlife that rides on the coattails of high deer densities adds another layer of problems. Where I live in Edmonton (a city region area of a million people) we have many many coyotes in town, a pack of 15 wolves within 25 km of the provincial capital building here, the occasional mountain lion and fawn-killing black bears. They thrive and increase in a deer-rich environment.

In my area, we have new diseases appearing in the deer heard and the coyote population is expanding. Accordingly, the Game Commission is attempting to find ways to prevent the spread of the diseases and coyote hunts are regularly organized to protect the deer hear.

More money to fight Mother Nature..........

 

[Omega Man]

For your consideration, I have had reported to me by a Physician, concerns about eating meat possibly containing Lyme Disease.
I have seen these for the application of tick treatment but the effectiveness hasn't been determined-

I don't know what can actually be done to improve the disease aspect of the deer population but I do know that the reports I have from hunters that I know, of the coat of the deer "undulating" from the amount of ticks makes me want to pass on eating venison.

Some interesting reading HERE

OM

 

[henzilla]

I just about had the trashbag knocked out of my hands a few minutes ago by one that was hanging out on my drive. No flashlight as I have that walk to the shop down to habit...I think I p'd a little

We do have coyotes making a comeback out here, but the ranchers cull them for taking out goats and other livestock and the deer keep on coming.

You would think the states ag dept's would be knee deep in the donated meat chain of control.

 

[mika]

We do have coyotes making a comeback out here, but the ranchers cull them for taking out goats and other livestock and the deer keep on coming.

You would think the states ag dept's would be knee deep in the donated meat chain of control.

I am not aware of a state that has organized processing chain for this. The funding isn't there for butchering, inspection and all the practical matters related to processing meat and disposing of waste. This may vary at the county and or city level where there may be a group willing to pick up the tab. Ag or DNR departments are fully budgeted for other things.

 

[BCKRider]

I am not aware of a state that has organized processing chain for this. The funding isn't there for butchering, inspection and all the practical matters related to processing meat and disposing of waste. This may vary at the county and or city level where there may be a group willing to pick up the tab. Ag or DNR departments are fully budgeted for other things.

Mika, I believe you are absolutely right, and there is no way wild deer will ever be for sale at your local grocery store. Where I live (B.C. Canada) many small livestock producers are out of business because they cannot butcher and sell domestic animals - though there is not a single case of anyone becoming sick because they purchased "farm gate" meat. No chance of market hunting deer happening in this province - or probably anywhere in Canada or the US.

I am a bird hunter (now mostly ducks) and part of the ethic of being a hunter is that you treat the dead creature in a way that it becomes food. Good food. Then you eat it. The idea of people shooting deer and not using the meat pains me. I suspect that if the information about deer being severely infected by ticks gets out, and if that in any way compromises the meat, even fewer deer will be shot by regular hunters.

I believe too large deer heards will eventually be decimated in two ways - starvation and disease. Probably not our choice, even for those riders who have hit a deer, but there is not the money or will to turn these animals into great food for many people. Expect many deer in your path for many years to come.

Glad I started the discussion. I've learned a lot.

 

[36654]

I am not aware of a state that has organized processing chain for this. The funding isn't there for butchering, inspection and all the practical matters related to processing meat and disposing of waste. This may vary at the county and or city level where there may be a group willing to pick up the tab. Ag or DNR departments are fully budgeted for other things.

I can't speak for fly-over land, but here in PA we have deer farms and they're regulated by the Dept of Ag.

http://extension.psu.edu/business/ag-alternatives/livestock/exotic-livestock/red-deer-production

http://www.agmrc.org/commodities__products/livestock/deer-venison-ranching/

Deer are an edible animal, venison is available to the market thru the small producers. Check-out your local farmers market.

Safeway, FoodLion, etc. will have all the Beef, Chicken, Pork we'll ever need; produced in the manner we all love. Massive amounts of drugs, confined feeding and processed by folks without documents........But, I guess that's the benefits of being inspected.

 

[AKsuited]

Brakes, evasive maneuvers and the horn. I wasn't counting on the horn to save me from a deer strike but I do believe it helped my odds.

Agreed. What the heck, it can't hurt. It has been my experience that laying on the horn does help turn deer around and encourages them to depart the roadway. I'm not counting on the horn to save me; rather, I consider the horn a tool I would be foolish not to use.

Yesterday, on my way home from Thanksgiving dinner at my daughter's, on I-390 in New York, I spotted a deer on my left, headed for the pavement. I spiked the brakes and laid on the horn. The deer turned around and retreated.

Harry

 

[brewmeister]

Now I carry a gutting knife in my glove box and a plastic bag in the trunk with surgical gloves. I see a deer fresh hit and I'll cut out the prime cuts on the side of the road. Ticks have no Bering on the meat as long as it is cooked properly and thoroughly.My friend from works folks retired in northern wis. near the mich. border. They put up a prefab house and put 2 25 cubic ft freezers up in the attic before the roof was closed up. They keep the freezer full and only eat deer year round. the entrance is hidden in the back of a closet to get up there. Deer eat my arborvitae bushes and I have to replace them occasionally. Just like the wolfs killing domestic animals the shoot m and don't tell is prevalent in wis. I have to toot my horn to get the deer out of my way to get into my garage. A cross bow is very stealth for no BANG noise. As far as hitting deer, It's the luck of the draw. I've hit plenty ,just try to be vigilant. You can call the sheriff when you hit a deer and they allow you to take it home. Venison is a better quality meat than beef IMHO." Free is your friend"

 

[mika]

I can't speak for fly-over land, but here in PA we have deer farms and they're regulated by the Dept of Ag.

http://extension.psu.edu/business/ag-alternatives/livestock/exotic-livestock/red-deer-production

http://www.agmrc.org/commodities__products/livestock/deer-venison-ranching/

Deer are an edible animal, venison is available to the market thru the small producers. Check-out your local farmers market.

Safeway, FoodLion, etc. will have all the Beef, Chicken, Pork we'll ever need; produced in the manner we all love. Massive amounts of drugs, confined feeding and processed by folks without documents........But, I guess that's the benefits of being inspected.

Yes deer farms are available as commercial farming process. They are not what I was responding to. Never mind.

 

[bob_m]

Around Griffith Park, right in the heart of LA a mountain lion, creativly named P-22, has lived for about 4 years. He is strong, seemingly not interested with people or pets as he has an ample supply of deer which he dispatches with regularity and ease. It is impressive that he has had to cross two freeways to reach this island of nature in the middle of the urban sea. He is monitored and collared and has not been a threat. My sister saw him in her back yard in the hills above Burbank. Although this naturally occuring introduction into the neighborhood of a deer killing predator has thus far been a successful experiment, I doubt that many communities want mountain lions introduced into their neighborhoods.

I think easy and cheap doe tags would help diminish the problem of deer overpopulation.