Honest assessment, riding like an a**?

[mjfink420]

Pay to play when over the limit. Can't say that I haven't done it. Rule that I have is when you see 25 and 35 posted , time to back off, because you are in a no play zone. Ticket wasn't that bad , could been a lot higher, and you would have been in jail in NH., with mandatory loss of license. Paying the ticket is not the expensive part , it is the premium increase and points for a number of years . In the Northeast the LEO's tend to be more than forgiving , depending on when ,where , time of day , and attitude , but 20 over will always cost you no matter where you are. I'm also with Kbasa on blind corners, can't see, no speed , happens every day , every ride here, the deadly tik tok, gps , instagram , cellphone user , forcing you off the road to score points with their cannibalistic tree and rock friends.. Have fun and safe riding, and also keep a big savings account, you may need it.

When he told me the speed limit was 25, I honestly thought I was going to jail. I knew I was nowhere near 25, didn't know what he was going to tell me get got me on radar at, but let's say I knew it wasn't 29. He told me he could take me to jail for that offense, I'm sure he could have, both the absolute amount over and the whole "2X the speed limit" were probably both "jailable" offenses.

I used to live in NJ, I'd have to disagree the cops up there were "more forgiving". Honestly, in the mountains of NC/SC/GA, I almost never see any police at all, and, if I do, they seem pretty darn chill about motorcycles. I've been riding for years, including a few times where I've passed police and I knew I was going too fast and haven't been pulled over in over a decade. I never do anything beyond the flow of traffic on the highways, I think that has a lot to do with it; that's where I often seem them posted up doing radar checks.

Thank you. This weekend I'm heading to the Fontana Dam area (Tail of the Dragon, Skyway, etc); my wife's anniversary present to me. Excited to go, but still feeling a little tender. I did muster the courage to ride the Moonshiner 28 last weekend (after the ticket), but I was definitely not riding my best. It's a fine line between "cautious and safe" and "scared and dangerous". Need to get back on the right side, ASAP!!

 

[kbasa]

I probably committed a felony when I used a magic marker to add a blue stripe to the flag outside my front door...

US Flag Code, Section 8(g): (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

Let's not mark the flag. I'm an old Boy Scout that treats the flag with the reverence and respect its due. When it's time to retire that flag, which is now, talk to the local American Legion or Boy Scout troop, who will give it a proper decommissioning and "funeral".

You didn't commit a felony, but it's in poor taste, to mark the flag or treat it in ways prohibited by the Flag Code.

All those flags that render it in black and white or add some stripe or picture for some political purpose are no bueno. We're all Americans and the flag should remain neutral and free from other commentary.

Thanks. I may be a commie liberal, but I have family that died for that flag and the nation it represents and I love. Let's treat it with the respect it deserves.

US Flag Code

 

[PGlaves]

Speed limits and safe speeds sometimes have something to do with each other and often they don't. Maybe it is a stretch where a child was hit and died so there was a public outcry, or maybe the slow stretch goes past a County Commissioner's or the Judge's house, or maybe the jurisdiction routinely reduces the legal speed limit based on the speed that might be posted on a yellow warning sign - like Colorado often does.

We are expected to notice the speed limit signs and to act accordingly. In many states (AR and LA for example) even 15 mph over the limit is prima facia reckless driving (riding). In Texas, 20 over will get a person a reckless ticket.

There are lots of places with low speed limits where roadway geometry allows much higher speeds. So be it. Just because we can doesn't mean we should!

 

[kickstandsup]

There are 2 separate issues here, IMHO.

The first issue is cut and dry. I was speeding, got a ticket for it that was completely justified and will pay it. As I said, the officer was entirely professional and while I didn't see the signs, there were plenty of them, the road was well very well posted. In my mind, there's absolutely no question about it, I was wrong and got caught in the wrong. And, to use your words, dumb.

What shook me about the ticket isn't that I was speeding, it's that I was doing double the limit and it felt totally "fine" to me, I didn't feel at all unsafe or like I was "pushing it". Having had a few experiences in the past with overconfidence, I'd like to try to avoid a repeat.

Within personal limits and safe are much more important to me than "legal". The legal question was answered definitively by the video, "NO!" is the answer. Disobey the law, get a ticket or, really mess up like I did, maybe even go to jail. There's a clear path A-B there. The reason I posted the video was to get an honest assessment, not of the legal/illegal nature (again, asked and answered by the footage), but of the safe/within limits question which, IMHO, is far more ambiguous.

What I was hoping for wasn't sympathy or a "that cop was an a**" (he wasn't, not at all, as I've already said), but for people to say "Yeah, that riding looks like you'll soon be dead if you keep it up" or "You were an idiot for riding that fast on a well posted road, but the riding itself looks like what I do, just on roads with 50MPH speed limits, not 25".

In an effort to not continue making bad life decisions, I've taken the video down. Thank you for the discussion though, still not sure what the end result of this will be, speed bump or turning point, but it's been helpful to see opinions of both sides.

First, dumb is one word...

Here's another: delusional.

What you want, as you've indicated, is empathy, i.e., "yeah, the riding looks like what I do."

Even assuming that's true, so what? Staying within personal limits is obviously the first choice, regardless of the posted limit, but you seem to be looking for some type of "community permission" b/c you consider yourself skilled enough to double the limit while having a self-admitted problem with "overconfidence."

Why not do what's right?

 

[omega man]

US Flag Code, Section 8(g): (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

Let's not mark the flag. I'm an old Boy Scout that treats the flag with the reverence and respect its due. When it's time to retire that flag, which is now, talk to the local American Legion or Boy Scout troop, who will give it a proper decommissioning and "funeral".

You didn't commit a felony, but it's in poor taste, to mark the flag or treat it in ways prohibited by the Flag Code.

All those flags that render it in black and white or add some stripe or picture for some political purpose are no bueno. We're all Americans and the flag should remain neutral and free from other commentary.

Thanks. I may be a commie liberal, but I have family that died for that flag and the nation it represents and I love. Let's treat it with the respect it deserves.

US Flag Code

While it’s a bit off topic, Flag Care and proper disposal reminder-
OM

 

[mjfink420]

Even assuming that's true, so what? Staying within personal limits is obviously the first choice, regardless of the posted limit, but you seem to be looking for some type of "community permission" b/c you consider yourself skilled enough to double the limit while having a self-admitted problem with "overconfidence."

Let me give you two examples of what I thought I might hear. First, allow me to share another video:

When I see people riding like this, I think to myself, "He's going to die soon, just hope he doesn't take anyone with him".

The reason I shared my video wasn't for "permission". I suspect nearly all of us are "skilled enough" to do double the speed limit on a wide open road, the tun heading into where I got pulled over was wide enough and open enough, I have no doubt that there are people here who could do that turn at 75 or even 100 without breaking a sweat. The reason I shared my video was to find out if I look like the video posted above, am I riding "wild" and in a personal blind spot thinking "not a big deal" where others see it and think "he'll be dead soon, perhaps not as soon as the idiot on the GSX-R, but soon".

When I see the video above, regardless of the speed limit, I see someone with a death wish that's soon to be fulfilled. If he was riding like that on the Autobahn (100MPH+ more than the flow of traffic) or on a track, wouldn't matter one bit, it's not the legality of it, it's that he's riding in such a way that no matter how skilled, at some point, someone will cross a lane and, well.. That's the end of that Youtube channel.

So, what I thought I might hear (general themes):

1) You need to watch your speed better, but, if the limit there was 55, I wouldn't have slowed at all for that turn, and, if it was on a track, I would have hit at 100.

2) You're soon to be dead if you keep pushing it like this, I would have taken that turn at 30 and been nervous about it.

I really could care less about "empathy". I'm autistic, it's a fairy tale emotion to me. What I was hoping for was some guidance, not to the legal aspects of what I did, I know it was wrong, and I know I'm going to have to pay for what I did. A "sorry you got yourself in this situation, hope things turn out well" is fine, but it doesn't help me decide what to do going forward. I'm weighing various options and was trying to get some help to determine, as mentioned earlier, should this be a turning point (sell the bike, go to track riding, back to MX, etc) or a speed bump (keep the bike, pay better attention, get a radar detector, etc).

 

[kickstandsup]

Let me give you two examples of what I thought I might hear. First, allow me to share another video:

When I see people riding like this, I think to myself, "He's going to die soon, just hope he doesn't take anyone with him".

The reason I shared my video wasn't for "permission". I suspect nearly all of us are "skilled enough" to do double the speed limit on a wide open road, the tun heading into where I got pulled over was wide enough and open enough, I have no doubt that there are people here who could do that turn at 75 or even 100 without breaking a sweat. The reason I shared my video was to find out if I look like the video posted above, am I riding "wild" and in a personal blind spot thinking "not a big deal" where others see it and think "he'll be dead soon, perhaps not as soon as the idiot on the GSX-R, but soon".

When I see the video above, regardless of the speed limit, I see someone with a death wish that's soon to be fulfilled. If he was riding like that on the Autobahn (100MPH+ more than the flow of traffic) or on a track, wouldn't matter one bit, it's not the legality of it, it's that he's riding in such a way that no matter how skilled, at some point, someone will cross a lane and, well.. That's the end of that Youtube channel.

So, what I thought I might hear (general themes):

1) You need to watch your speed better, but, if the limit there was 55, I wouldn't have slowed at all for that turn, and, if it was on a track, I would have hit at 100.

2) You're soon to be dead if you keep pushing it like this, I would have taken that turn at 30 and been nervous about it.

I really could care less about "empathy". I'm autistic, it's a fairy tale emotion to me. What I was hoping for was some guidance, not to the legal aspects of what I did, I know it was wrong, and I know I'm going to have to pay for what I did. A "sorry you got yourself in this situation, hope things turn out well" is fine, but it doesn't help me decide what to do going forward. I'm weighing various options and was trying to get some help to determine, as mentioned earlier, should this be a turning point (sell the bike, go to track riding, back to MX, etc) or a speed bump (keep the bike, pay better attention, get a radar detector, etc).

As I understand it, black and white thinking can be a trait associated with autism. It appears you are applying that here, listing choices that don't include the one important choice: slow down on the street and use better judgment.

I will also point out that speed tends to focus the mind, to the exclusion of other things, especially when you're pushing. I'll submit that you "missing" not 1, not 2 but 3 speed limit signs is a demonstration that you needed all your focus to carry your speed in that situation.

Like many, if not most, of us, you're not as good as you think you are...

And that's it...I'm out. Good luck whatever you do.

 

[pauls1150]

I have to seriously doubt that "you didn't see the signs"; more likely, you were having so much fun that your attention was elsewhere - you didn't perceive the signs.
That's why cars turn left in front of us or hit us from behind.

 

[mjfink420]

I have to seriously doubt that "you didn't see the signs"; more likely, you were having so much fun that your attention was elsewhere - you didn't perceive the signs.
That's why cars turn left in front of us or hit us from behind.

I was absolutely floored looking at the video how obvious (and numerous) the signs were. I had to see them, just didn't "register" (perceive) them.

As I mentioned, I had a lot working against me. I love filming rides, but there's certainly a mental load associated with doing it, lots of things to think about if you want to get a good recording and while my setup is good, it's absolutely a distraction. I'd already done 200 miles that day towing our RV up to the spot, so was already a little "road drunk" heading out. The road was super pretty, 0 traffic, curves, open lane(s). A cardinal mistake, said somewhat in jest, but I was hungry and knew I only had a short time to ride before we had to get ready for dinner (it was planned to be a short ride anyway, so I didn't need to worry about that, but it was in the back of my mind heading out).

As I understand it, black and white thinking can be a trait associated with autism. It appears you are applying that here, listing choices that don't include the one important choice: slow down on the street and use better judgment.

It is, and I often do exactly that. And while I do agree with you, seems that's the easy choice, the thing that scares me the most, I legitimately did not know I was doing something wrong. Now, it's abundantly obvious I SHOULD have known, and was well warned that I was about to be (and then was) doing something wrong, at the time, I was unaware. Pay more attention, or, maybe, just don't ride when you're rushed/tired/burned out from a day of driving/hungry. I think that had a lot to do with it, driving an RV is not "easy", it requires a lot of focus (especially through the mountains) and I just think maybe I pushed it too far (not my speed, that's obvious, just my endurance for paying close attention).

Well, live and learn I guess. Nobody hurt, my license is (was, perhaps) flawless, this is just going to be a financial hit.

And that's it...I'm out. Good luck whatever you do.

Thank you, same to you and others who contributed and provided feedback!

 

[kbasa]

What I was hoping for was some guidance, not to the legal aspects of what I did, I know it was wrong, and I know I'm going to have to pay for what I did. A "sorry you got yourself in this situation, hope things turn out well" is fine, but it doesn't help me decide what to do going forward.

Well, then. Here we go: here's what I think you should do going forward.

I'd say this should be a wake up call to pay attention to your surroundings and the speed laws. It's not complicated. Being situation aware will keep you alive.

You need to throttle back and pay attention. You missed a couple speed limit signs. What else did you miss? What if the speed limit sign had been a kid rolling out of a driveway into the road on their Big Wheel? What if it was a car making a no stop turn into the roadway? What if you came around the corner and there were two people on bicycles riding side by side?

You were pretty obviously riding beyond your sightline and while it's exciting, it's a great way to get hurt or killed, or even worse, hurt or kill someone else.

There's my guidance. Slow down before you hurt someone or yourself.

If you want to go fast, then you need to go to track days and track school and get it out of your system there. At 50K miles, you have a ways to go to 10,000 hours of experience, the commonly accepted standard for what it takes to be an expert. If one averages to 50mph as normal travel productivity, you have 1000 hours. You have much to learn, especially judgement.

You also appear to have your butt welded to the seat and a track day may help you get better at bike control. I suspect you have had little to no high performance street riding training and are getting by on instincts.

I've ridden with people we called a "circus bear". Sure, they're amusing as they haul ass, but riding with them is just like being with a circus bear: amusing but potentially deadly. 50 in a 25? No excuses. Circus bear territory.

What to do going forward?

• Stop riding for your camera.
• Pay your ticket.
• Go to traffic school.
• Go to track days.
• Slow down on the street.
• Pay attention to your surroundings.

Boston translation: Smahten up befaw you kill yawself.

Ride well and good luck.

 

[mjfink420]

Thanks kbasa, constructive advice, appreciate it.

One question for you:

"You also appear to have your butt welded to the seat and a track day may help you get better at bike control. I suspect you have had little to no high performance street riding training and are getting by on instincts."

First off, you suspect right, I've never had high performance street riding training. Cars, yes. Motocross, yes. Street motorcycles, no. Funny story, it's still hard for me, in a tight corner, to not "put a leg out". It's just so ingrained in me from years of racing dirt bikes, you turn, you put your foot out to catch you if you slip. I've managed to break the habit (thankfully not my foot, I do see Supermoto's do it sometimes and I always wonder, seems like a bad idea on the street), but it wasn't easy.

Anyway, the question. I've been told by several people not to hang off the bike in corners. "That's for the track", and "If you have to come off the saddle to get around the corner, you're going way too fast". Because of that, I've gotten "glued" and try to stay as centered as possible in corners. Sounds like your critique indicates that perhaps I should loosen up on that a bit? And no, that doesn't mean "dragging elbow", I'm a little slow, but not THAT slow, but just wondered if you might have some guidance (or, even better, video of someone doing it right on the street" that I could try to absorb?

Thx!

 

[kbasa]

I learned at CLASS, a high performance street riding school, that it's really efficient to steer your BMW with your lower body, like skiing. My wife and I toured on an RT with all our junk on it, so a big heavily loaded bike. Steering it through the bars was tiring over a long day of twisty roads, so this notion stuck with me and has helped greatly.

The idea is to shift your weight to the inside by sliding a butt cheek off the seat, then a bit of counter steering drops the bike right into the corner. Your weight on the inside of the bike is pulling it down into the corner, reducing your effort on the bars. If the corner tightens, you just pull it down a little more with some micro inputs on the bars.

To stand it back up, a bit of counter steering on the outside beer while you slide back up on the seat will stand it back up easily, again, mostly driven through the big muscles around your core, glutes and quads in your lower body. If you're carrying a passenger and they're working with you and staying in sync, you can really move a big bike rapidly.

Look for Lee Parks' Total Control in your area. Here's a little before and after. Note how he positions before the corner and then uses bar inputs to initiate or stand the bike back up.

If you're reluctant to do a track day, attending a Lee Parks session might be helpful as it's all about using your body to help steer the bike. On a long day of twisty roads, you won't believe how much less exhausted you'll be at the end of the day.

Also, if you do start attending track days, you'll have an opportunity to tune this at speed.

People get weird about body position. If you're fully hanging off, trying to get your knee down, well now you're being dramatic and that will certainly catch the cops' attention. But if you're just hanging cheek off to use your bodyweight to steer the bike, the cops probably aren't going to notice that if you're anywhere near the speed limits.

Do I do that at all speeds? Not around the neighborhood, but when the road starts flowing, I'm rotating the center of my body around the gas cap and my body position in a corner has my butt off a little on the inside and generally, my forearm pointing right up toward the apex. Note: I hold the bars like a screwdriver, not like I'm doing a pull-up, which allows me to keep my elbows out and not lock my hands, elbows, arms and shoulders into a rigid box, destroying my ability to steer. It took me a long time to learn to unlock my elbows and keep my arms loose when cornering or riding briskly.

I hope that's helpful.

 

[DavidR8]

Double the speed limit here and you are walking with the possibility of vehicle seizure and forfeiture.

 

[PGlaves]

Double the speed limit here and you are walking with the possibility of vehicle seizure and forfeiture.

Just curious. Where is "here"?

 

[paul_f]

The first thing that I noticed when watching the video was that many (not all) of your entries into curves were in the wrong track for the best view around the curve, which would enable you to see any obstacles. I realize that there were two lanes in the direction that you were travelling, so obviously not a big deal that day. Good cornering entries should always be executed so as to not get into sloppy habits that could be detrimental to your riding in less open roads. If you make a point of entering correctly, you'll always do it and might be able to stop to avoid an animal, or be able to slow for a stopped vehicle or avoid an oil spill or change of road surface.

Good advice about taking the Lee Parks courses; I've taken two of his.

 

[DavidR8]

Just curious. Where is "here"?

British Columbia Canada.
We had a spate of idiots running exotic cars up a coastal highway at high speeds and tickets were not a deterrent so they enacted a law that allows police to seize vehicles caught.
It was effective as it basically stopped the practice.

 

[mjfink420]

We had a spate of idiots running exotic cars up a coastal highway at high speeds and tickets were not a deterrent so they enacted a law that allows police to seize vehicles caught.

They'd have a field day on the Dragon. Was there this past weekend and it was.. Well, like nowhere else I've ever been that's not a race track, let's put it that way. I did a few runs, grabbed one on video that came out OK, I'll post it once I get finished with the edits, but.. My goodness, wait till you see the video we took standing on one of the turns, it was insane up there this past weekend! I'm getting "double" would have been slow, there had to be cars/bikes there doing triple or maybe even quadruple the limit (it's 30, IIRC, for most of the Dragon; every sign the entire roadway was painted over to "80" this past weekend, funny, but I doubt that's going to get you far in court). There were a few cops up there, but there's just too much volume; everyone is warning everyone else, cars flashing, bikers pounding their helmet. That is a crazy place, it's fun, but honestly, it's also scary, the speed differentials are so high and there's always at least one car or bike who crosses the center line every time I do it. Amazing more people don't die/get hurt up there honestly.

Thank you for the advice on courses and also technique. I started doing a little "butt sliding" this trip trying to get a feel for it. Honestly, feels a little strange doing it, but, I feel like I hit a few corners with "one cheek off" what I came out thinking "well, that felt really good/easy". Most, however, did not, they felt like I was doing a poor impersonation of a racer. I'll keep at it, try to make it more "normal" to shift more weight inside in corners to see if I can get used to it.

 

[kbasa]

They'd have a field day on the Dragon. Was there this past weekend and it was.. Well, like nowhere else I've ever been that's not a race track, let's put it that way. I did a few runs, grabbed one on video that came out OK, I'll post it once I get finished with the edits, but.. My goodness, wait till you see the video we took standing on one of the turns, it was insane up there this past weekend! I'm getting "double" would have been slow, there had to be cars/bikes there doing triple or maybe even quadruple the limit (it's 30, IIRC, for most of the Dragon; every sign the entire roadway was painted over to "80" this past weekend, funny, but I doubt that's going to get you far in court). There were a few cops up there, but there's just too much volume; everyone is warning everyone else, cars flashing, bikers pounding their helmet. That is a crazy place, it's fun, but honestly, it's also scary, the speed differentials are so high and there's always at least one car or bike who crosses the center line every time I do it. Amazing more people don't die/get hurt up there honestly.

Thank you for the advice on courses and also technique. I started doing a little "butt sliding" this trip trying to get a feel for it. Honestly, feels a little strange doing it, but, I feel like I hit a few corners with "one cheek off" what I came out thinking "well, that felt really good/easy". Most, however, did not, they felt like I was doing a poor impersonation of a racer. I'll keep at it, try to make it more "normal" to shift more weight inside in corners to see if I can get used to it.

Awesome. See if you can find the Lee Parks course being run near you. https://www.totalcontroltraining.net/schedule

Mostly here in CA, but there are some IL and PA sessions.

 

[mjfink420]

Awesome. See if you can find the Lee Parks course being run near you. https://www.totalcontroltraining.net/schedule

Mostly here in CA, but there are some IL and PA sessions.

Don't see any in my area (SC/NC/GA). What do you think of ChampSchool? "ChampStreet" was what I was first drawn to, but it seems that may be mostly low speed work? They do some events in my area, I've always thought of them more as "racing" than street, but I've looked at them a few times. Man is it expensive to do the 2 day school, nearly 3K! I actually have a guy I know who's an instructor up in the Millville, NJ area (for Champ and others, IIRC). I may reach out to him and see if he has some recommendations.

Watching bikes and cars fly by this past weekend on the dragon. I, of course, rode it a few times too, once with cameras, so hopefully I got some good footage to share from the cockpit. Definitely not going as fast as some of these guys/girls though!!

 

[CaptCF]

IMHO, YCRS and CSS are excellent. If you want to test the waters and do a virtual course first you could do ChampU which is one of YCRS's online educational offerings. They cover all the stuff they do in the school but obviously you can't replicate the hands on component with an online course. It's free to MOA members through a reimbursement/grant from the MOA. Link - https://bmwmoaf.org/uncategorized/b...champu-partnership-for-online-rider-training/