Honest assessment, riding like an a**?

[mjfink420]

I almost always ride solo, and I've been riding for years in rural areas where I just about never see a cop or, alternately, on mountain roads where the cops seem pretty chill. Never been so much as pulled over, but this past weekend, got a monster of a ticket (2X the speed limit) and wondering if it should be a wake up call.

Looking for some honest reviews, feel like we all probably have a blind spot, if you're riding "at the edge" or in a way that other, more experienced people look at and say "You're gonna regret that, way too fast for conditions/etc"; I'm not sure I'd recognize it without someone pointing it out to me.

When I ride twisty roads and there are other motorcycles, I'm usually one of the faster riders, but I honestly chalk a lot of that up to my bike is a lot faster than most of the folks I meet up with. I don't consider myself highly skilled, just reasonably experienced and try to "ride smart" and keep the higher speed stuff to areas where it's not dangerous to others. Kind of wonder if I'm lying to myself.

Anyway, if you'd like to weigh in, here's a video, unedited (nothing cut out; this continuous from the beginning until I get pulled over) and I'd love to get some impressions; do I need to recalibrate my internal speedo because I'm gonna get killed if I keep riding like this? Or, put another way, seeing this, would you ride with me, or do you think "This guy is nuts, no way"?

This video is unlisted because of the monster ticket I have that I'm going to have to fight in court, no reason to give the cops ammo. Appreciate it if you didn't pass the link around.

 

[Paul_F]

Being caught doing double the post speed limit is, in my opinion, an invitation a major headache.

In Ontario, doing double the speed limit is a $10,000 fine and confiscation of the vehicle for ten days (I believe), not to mention a very sharp rise in insurance rates and impound charges. Your fine by comparison is relatively minor to what you would have experienced in my province of Ontario.

My rule for speed on the open road has always been no more than 14km over the limit; ticket but no points. When riding on freeways, I just go with the traffic flow. In towns or cities, I ride the posted speed limit (or a bit less when out of province).

 

[collingsbob]

I used to be a faster rider. I explored wfo on my FJR a couple of times…I took the first 3 levels of rider training at the FAST school at Shannonville racetrack a couple of years ago..then I had an accident - luckily at only 100km/hr. Now I struggle to ride the speed limit.
If you want to ride fast with a reduced chance of injury or death…go to the track.

 

[bigjohnsd]

I rarely ride more than 5-10 over the posted limit.
That said, there have been times in the twisty sections..................

 

[mjfink420]

Being caught doing double the post speed limit is, in my opinion, an invitation a major headache.

In Ontario, doing double the speed limit is a $10,000 fine and confiscation of the vehicle for ten days (I believe), not to mention a very sharp rise in insurance rates and impound charges. Your fine by comparison is relatively minor to what you would have experienced in my province of Ontario.

My rule for speed on the open road has always been no more than 14km over the limit; ticket but no points. When riding on freeways, I just go with the traffic flow. In towns or cities, I ride the posted speed limit (or a bit less when out of province).

The officer told me that I was lucky he wasn't taking me to jail. I'm sure he had the right to do it for double the speed limit.

It really depends for me where I am. If it's a rural country road with good visibility, I'll generally ride most of the time around 10 over (which is a "gimmie" in most areas, you won't get pulled for that) with some bursts when conditions are good; nice turn, good visibility, etc. If it's in town or where there are a lot of driveways, I generally ride the speed limit. Same on highways, I'll typically just get in the left lane and follow traffic.

This was a confluence of factors; I was excited to ride the road (my first time riding it this year) and I only had a short window to ride; the road was clear (it's often busy), visibility was great, but, most of all, I just didn't see the speed limit was 25. Totally my fault, as you can see in the video, it's posted several times, I think I probably did see them but my brain registered it as "recommended" speed (yellow sign) not speed limit.

IDK, pretty bad situation all the way around.

 

[mjfink420]

I rarely ride more than 5-10 over the posted limit.
That said, there have been times in the twisty sections..................

The great thing, at least in most of the areas I ride with twisties is that the speed limit isn't that low.

After this happened and I got back the nerve to ride again, I went north and rode another great route; super twisty, lots and lots of 20MPH curves. But that road, like most of the twisty roads I ride, the curves are market "20 MPH" with the YELLOW sign, the recommended speed is 20, but the speed limit is often 35 or even 45. Taking a curve marked at a recommended 20 at the speed limit can be a blast! Most of the roads in this area are like that, the road will have a limit, and then there will be yellow "recommended" signs for all the sharp curves. Holding the speed limit the entire road would be a challenge and you'd never have to venture into Johnny Law's territory.

 

[kbasa]

The officer told me that I was lucky he wasn't taking me to jail. I'm sure he had the right to do it for double the speed limit.

It really depends for me where I am. If it's a rural country road with good visibility, I'll generally ride most of the time around 10 over (which is a "gimmie" in most areas, you won't get pulled for that) with some bursts when conditions are good; nice turn, good visibility, etc. If it's in town or where there are a lot of driveways, I generally ride the speed limit. Same on highways, I'll typically just get in the left lane and follow traffic.

This was a confluence of factors; I was excited to ride the road (my first time riding it this year) and I only had a short window to ride; the road was clear (it's often busy), visibility was great, but, most of all, I just didn't see the speed limit was 25. Totally my fault, as you can see in the video, it's posted several times, I think I probably did see them but my brain registered it as "recommended" speed (yellow sign) not speed limit.

IDK, pretty bad situation all the way around.

25 over is Go To Jail territory around here and moves you from misdemeanor speeding toward felony reckless. The road was clearly marked a number of times and you weren't paying attention enough to what was outside of the fog lines to realize it. No offense, but that's a really bad strategy for staying alive, much less ticket free.

Double the speed limit is always no bueno. Around here, 25+ means you're going to lose your license for 30 days minimum, MAYBE with a condition that you can drive to work, but nowhere else. The ticket here would be about like what you got there, but we'd be able to traffic school out of downstream insurance fee escalation if we've been good for a couple years.

Good luck fighting it, but your own video shows you rolling by at least two speed limit signs in regulatory black on white. You should hope and pray that the prosecuting attorney didn't get a note from the issuing officer about your camera and subpoenas it as evidence. Nothing like a little self documentation to ensure our ticket sticks and we indict ourselves.

My advice? If you feel like you have to ride it hard and be out in front, the track is the place for it, not the street. You're in Georgia? If so, you have Road Atlanta and I'm sure you can get some decent track time there or at Barber if you really want to ride quickly.

In the meanwhile? You better be the king of riding the speed limit because if you get another one, based on my experiences in Georgia in the mid 70s, they'll start teeing you up for "habitual offender" status and you'll be walking for a few years. Not joking. It happened to a friend of mine for a series of those kind of tickets in the hills north of Roswell, GA.

Good luck. You really need to lawyer up and get ready to write some big checks.

 

[mjfink420]

I've not had an offense in >15 years, so I'm hoping that I can go down the "traffic school your way out it" route.

As I said, he had me dead to rights. When he wrote the ticket, I thought to myself "glad I have this on video, because I don't think the sign was there". As you pointed out (and I realized watching the video) is was there, very obviously and multiple times (I think it was actually 3 times, 2 that were the speed limit and one that was in yellow with the limit sign inside, that's the one I saw and thought it was a "recommended speed").

I'm actually in SC, was over in GA for a vacation.

Yeah, it's lawyer time. I already kind of resigned myself to that. Going to be an expensive ride, that's for sure, probably would have been cheaper to just "lay her down" when I saw the cop.

As far as the track goes, honestly? I'm a bit afraid of the track. I've been hurt exactly 2 times on a motorcycle, both times on track, and both times because someone else hit me. I realize that makes me a bit of an outlier, and this was riding motocross, not sport bikes, but.... Just have some intrinsic fear of the track both wrecking at an absurd speed but also other riders making a mistake and taking me out. Guess I should be more worried about cars, but, <much knocking on wood>, I've never had what I'd consider a "close call" in ~50K miles on street. Yes, cars do dumb stuff, expect that to happen, often.

Doubt he needs my video, I'm sure he was rolling his own. Thing that scares me more than anything, when I look at that video, I don't see "riding like a madman", I see my typical rides up/around the mountains. I'm just worried that my "typical" is nuts to other people and, in this case, other people are going to be the deciding factor. When I see Youtube videos of some of the "stars" of the motorcycle world riding 100+MPH in traffic popping wheelies, I think they're nuts, but is that because I can't/don't ride like that? If I did, would I think that's "normal"?

IDK, some soul searching necessary, for sure. Maybe it's time to sell the bike and get something setup for track. Or sell the bike and do more hiking. Or go back to offroad.. Or get a radar detector. Just not sure, which is why I'm trying to get some outside/impartial opinions.

 

[kbasa]

Track days are generally arranged in classes based on experience. You're going to have track rats usually in the A group, skilled street riders in the B group and n00bs in the C group. They may have different rules about passing for each group that can make it a lot safer for everyone. You may likely be a B group rider, but they may want you to start in C group until you feel comfortable.

I used to go to CLASS because it's a street safety oriented school. If you're riding briskly on the street and haven't been to track school, I'd recommend it. I'd much rather find out how quickly I can maneuver my bike and brake on a track than when some logging truck is taking their half of the road out of the middle as I come around a blind left.

Remember what's "nuts" to the public doesn't matter when the cops show up. It's whether you're obeying the traffic laws or not. As far as a cop is concerned, the only difference between you and the YT "stars" is the size of the violation you've committed.

Good luck. You're in for a very expensive time, I'm sorry to say.

 

[riderr1150gsadv]

We all ride a bit faster then we should from time to time..
However situational awareness is critical for traffic signs and when getting closer to urban settings.
Just get used to 5-10 over and go with the flow of traffic and you should be ok 99% of the time.. YMMV
Good luck with the case!

 

[Omega Man]

May want to see if the lawyer will take the case on a contingency that he can plea it down to 10-over. That way it should only cost what the original ticket would be.

OM

 

[mjfink420]

We all ride a bit faster then we should from time to time..
However situational awareness is critical for traffic signs and when getting closer to urban settings.
Just get used to 5-10 over and go with the flow of traffic and you should be ok 99% of the time.. YMMV
Good luck with the case!

Thank you!

I really do try to keep my "wind in the hair" riding to areas where it's as "safe" as possible. I do like to ride fast, who doesn't right, but if there are houses/driveways/side streets/traffic or I'm on an Interstate, you won't catch me doing much beyond the speed limit. It's the empty mountain roads where I really enjoy riding more quickly. As I said earlier, the "secret" of mountain roads is that many have 35-55MPH speed limits but have turns with "recommendations" that are much, much lower. I like to try to ignore those recommendations. But not by going through a 25MPH turn at 75, going through a 25MPH turn at 40 or 50 can be plenty exciting; in fact, on a lot of the roads I ride, I can't maintain the speed limit into corners; they are too tight/I'm not good enough (If you saw my video of Green River Cove, that's a good example, no way you're coming around any of those corners above the speed limit unless you're on slicks)!

"Urban settings" are what I look for as my cue to slow it down. Where I stopped for the police in the video, another ~1 mile up the road, the town of Sky Valley starts (their small downtown area/lots of residential/etc). No way on earth the cop would have gotten me at 50 there; I always put-put through towns, both for my personal safety and those around me.

This is one of those instances, there was no traffic at all to "pace". The road was wide open (I had 2 lanes on my side, 1 lane going the other way). I did know I was getting close to the town of Sky Valley, but, obviously not in it yet. I'd never been on the road before (which, as you can see, it's beautiful), so I was looking around at the mountains while trying to keep from becoming a statistic. Add in filming, looking at GPS, riding fast (too fast), I guess it was just too much mental load for me to process it all at once.

I'll keep this thread updated when I talk to a lawyer, if for no other purpose than to educate others on "don't be me". I'm sure the cost of that little throttle twist coming out of the corner is going to be in the 1000's. Don't be me. Or, if you're going to ride like this, get a radar detector and an attorney on retainer!

 

[ackme]

I say kudos to you for attempting honest self reflection and seeking feedback here. Kudos also to those offering the advice to go to the track to feed the need for speed.

This is a lesson I need to take to heart for myself after picking up a ticket Tuesday for 17 over due to chronic idiocy. My third in 15 years - 5 years between #1 and #2, ten years between #2 and this 3rd one. Really all three for the same rationalization that getting frisky on a low traffic road with good sight lines, no intersection/driveways, in good conditions was okay.

Thanks for the wake up call. Good luck with your situation.

 

[52184]

Uummm, yeah, 2X the limit doesn’t go over well with LEOs, insurance carriers, etc. Was the riding in the vid dangerous? Not by me, but definitely illegal and I’d have been cooling it a bit given the amount of oncoming traffic on that road. There’s a beautiful paved road here in UT—Gooseberry Road—that I love to ravish in spring or late fall, when there is almost no camper or local traffic, but much of it is posted at a ridiculously low 35mph. A fine limit for motorhomes and towed campers, but painfully slow on a bike. So, I understand how you got into your predicament.

A good lawyer will be your friend, more expensive than just paying the ticket but possibly able to help mitigate other impacts. Here in the west, I try to keep three things in mind when really enjoying the bike:
1. “It is better to go in slow and come out fast, than to go in fast and come out dead” (Sterling Moss, F1 champion).
2. Never try to go fast in a slow corner” (Kenny Roberts, needs no explaining).
3. Never speed within 5 miles of a city limit (assorted UT/NV pundits).

Good luck with the ticket,
DeVern

 

[mjfink420]

Really all three for the same rationalization that getting frisky on a low traffic road with good sight lines, no intersection/driveways, in good conditions was okay.

That resonates a bit. Guilty as charged!

Honestly, I must say, most of the time, police do seem pretty "forgiving", at least in this area, on motorcycles. I've seen cops coming the other way before and, unlike this time, then I KNEW I was over, probably by at least 10-15MPH, and.. Nothing. Once I had a cop flash his lights at me "slow down a**hole" on a twisty road, I couldn't fault him, the sight lines were bad and the road was dirty, "slow down" was a good idea. And we have a good number of "lawless" areas near me, defacto road course tracks (The Tail of the Dragon being a good example) where the cops only go to mop up the blood, a job I don't envy them at all.

And, for all my moaning, the officer was professional and courteous, he had me dead to rights and I wasn't trying to make it worse by arguing. I did tell him I didn't see the signs (which was true), but upon reviewing the video, good thing I didn't argue it with him, might have wound up in the back of his car taking a nice drive to see all the signs up close and personal. The road was posted well, I just apparently was looking around like an idiot instead of focusing on what I was doing.

Maybe I'll give the track thing a go. I'm a big math/numbers guy, and I know that statistically, road riding is more dangerous. I just have some prior bad experience (and the scars to go with it) from track riding in my youth. It's the only reason I don't own an MX bike today, I'm too afraid to track it and there's about nowhere to ride them legally (off road only motorcycles) that's not a track.

I will say, while I LOVE my XR, compared to the track version (S1000RR) it's not exactly "handsome". So maybe a track toy and a more modest (slower) road bike would be a good mix.

 

[mjfink420]

A fine limit for motorhomes and towed campers, but painfully slow on a bike. So, I understand how you got into your predicament.

My other car is a F450, typically with a toy hauler attached. From one of the fastest things on the road to one of the slowest. Whenever I get behind a camper going up these roads, I always try not to pressure them; the last thing you need trying to navigate a big 5'er up a mountain road is a motorcycle riding your butt looking for a place to pass. It's a struggle to maintain the speed limit on roads like this towing, let alone get a ticket.

Maybe that should be my excuse? This happened the day we got there, after towing the RV ~200 miles. If you average out my speed in the truck and the motorcycle, I'm WAY under the speed limit officer!

 

[classicvw]

Here, Double the speed limit or 25 over (even a bit less) gets you mandatory court appearance in front of a judge. Most if not all will take your license for 30 days in addition to $$$ fine and points on your license for that much over the limit.

Also, even though that was a speed trap, (I can’t recall seeing a speed limit drop to 25 unless there were houses or stores of a town limit) I still get the feeling that it’s not sinking in that you’re 100% wrong. When locals are used to vehicles traveling 25-30 in an area, a driver may not be ready for someone traveling 50 and time their entry to the road wrong and then it’s a crash. Especially with the most often reason for causing a crash with a motorcycle being “I never saw him”.

Also, Being a retired LEO, I’m thinking he could easily have given you a small break by writing for less than double over the limit, but I get the feeling he may have felt you needed a wake up call for whatever reason. Maybe he thought you weren’t taking it seriously enough or something. Or maybe he makes overtime for court.

 

[mjfink420]

I still get the feeling that it’s not sinking in that you’re 100% wrong

Absolutely not, it's abundantly clear, after reviewing the video, I was in the wrong. The only thing I'd say to temper that, at the time, I didn't realize I was in the wrong, which, of course, is what EVERYONE says when they get a ticket, but, in this case, it's true. I've had times when I was riding when I thought "You are way over the speed limit, you need to slow down", this was not one of those times. I'm really glad I was shooting video when this happened because it both removes any doubt (yes, I was wrong, and yes, his radar was accurate) but it also lets me see what my speeds were on the rest of the ride. That's really helpful to look back on and see where I was "OK" (around the speed limit) and where I wasn't.

What you can't see in the video (I didn't make it) is that the town is about 3 more turns (~1 mile) up the road from where I was pulled over. Now, for why it's 25 in that area, then goes back to 35 as you go into town, I can't answer that; but there's a legit reason for the speed limit to drop down in that general area. I was aware that I was approaching the town (I'd not ridden that road before, but I did map it out and knew there was a town up there), just didn't feel like I was in it yet given the lack of.. Well, lack of much of anything other than great views!

This is not a defense of what I did, but when I was looking over all the video I shot that day, while I was pulled over (which only took about 10 minutes, gotta credit them for efficiency) a BMW (small, maybe an M3) came in the opposite direction doing at least 60MPH; he was hauling. I was standing with the officer at the time and wasn't looking in that direction, but the officer was and he was PISSED. I'm guessing the reason they set a speed trap up there is because this is a persistent problem and they want to push those looking to ride/drive fast somewhere else. Mission accomplished, I won't be riding that road at any kind of pace again!

 

[kbasa]

At double the speed limit, I'd be less concerned about cops and more concerned about the biggest danger of fast street riding - riding beyond your sightlines.

Imagine coming around a corner at full chat and finding a ladder laying in the road. Or a giant branch. Or a cow. Or a barbecue grill. Or another rider that just got in over their head; both them and their bike in the middle of the road. Or some tourist parked right in the travel lane. Or a gaggle of bicyclists with really bad riding etiquette covering the entire lane. Or someone on a bike or car coming the other way riding just like yourself?

I've seen all those things and had to pull my buddy out from under a guard rail when he rode beyond his sight lines, came around the corner and found a car in his lane getting around a bicyclist. He lost a kidney and a spleen that day and was off the bike for two years. Bright lights and hi viz don't do jack in that kind of situation. You're going to have a very bad day.

So riding aggressively on the street isn't really part of my thing anymore. I'd hate to die here on the cusp of retirement and leave my wife a widow because I though passing some car was the most important thing in the world or ditching that guy behind me and showing him how fast I am was important.

Mission 1 isn't "get around this car" or "scrub my tires to the edge and leave boogers".

It's "get home safely".

 

[mjfink420]

At double the speed limit, I'd be less concerned about cops and more concerned about the biggest danger of fast street riding - riding beyond your sightlines.

Agreed. That's always my biggest fear, especially when I'm on really tight corners and/or the corner is blind. There are a few places I ride where the corners are so tight that I near come to a stop, not because I can't lean the bike or turn fast enough, because cars ALWAYS cross the line and I'd prefer not to wind up someone else's hood ornament.

Mission 1 isn't "get around this car" or "scrub my tires to the edge and leave boogers".

Kbasa has chicken strips!! I do too, unless I take the bike to one of a few roads I know of where I can get a big lean angle, I'll have them when the tire is new and have them when I peel it off!