Got pulled over by a LEO...

[bubbagazoo]

My 2 cents (Canadian pennies btw) on this subject -- LEOs are caught in an unenviable position when it comes to traffic safety. Many do not want LEOs to be stopping motorists to check for proper licensing of the operator and registration of the vehicle. It's an inconvenience and is often seen as a "why aren't they out catching real criminals" issue.

On the other hand, an unlicensed operator goes out and kills somebody and the public screams about how could this happen. Why wasn't anybody doing anything about this dangerous individual? How is is possible that Joe Schmo, with 19 DUI convictions and a lifetime ban on operating a motor vehicle was out driving that night? Tell me how the unlicensed and/or dangerous vehicle operator is kept off the road without some sort of pro-active approach to catching them.

So, if I get pulled over for "no apparent good or warranted reason", I don't mind. If it takes 10 or 15 minutes out of my day, so what? If one driver is taken off the road because he/she is unlicensed, impaired or in any other way not competent to be on the road, it's been a successful operation because that's one less danger to me and my loved ones.

 

[ted]

Here is a great treatise on the subject written for the layman (particularly Chapter 2...)

 

[Visian]

The traffic stop is a matter of temporary dentention and has nothing to do with search and seizure..The matter boils down to whether one believes it is reasonable or unreasonable to temporarily detain someone long enough to verify they have the required documents to be doing whatever it is they are doing whether it be driving or moving an oversized load or walking down the street carrying a 50 cal. machine gun..

so, what if it looks like they're doing absolutely nothing other than riding down the road?

my issue is that these stops are a fig leaf for harrassment.

ian

 

[Visian]

Here is a great treatise on the subject written for the layman (particularly Chapter 2...)

man, you sure have to read a lot to be a lawyer.

excellent link.

 

[greenwald]

How did this go from a temporary detention issue to a search and seizure issue?

By definition of law, any detention of an individual is a "temporary and warrantless seizure of their person," subject to the limitations / interpretations of the Fourth Amendment, Terry vs. Ohio, Habeas Corpus, etc.

 

[GHUHN136119]

+1 on the link. Very Interesting!

I miss TOTS (and some of the LEOs that stopped by).

I have all the respect in the world for law enforcement personnel. Someone posted earlier that I could get put on some kind of s**t list for complaining (calling the boss or writing a letter) about being pulled over for nothing but a paperwork check. That sends the wrong signal. Maybe back in my teens or early 20's I really didn't want to get pulled over, but we are not supposed to be fearful of law officers. That my friends would be a police state.
I don't care if I'm stopped for any reason other than nothing! Pull everyone over and I'm cool with that! I've got nothing to hide. It is the principle involved that some don't get. If someone doesn't mind being pulled over just to have their paperwork checked, when running a tag would do, fine for them. Not me.
You know, we gave up a lot of rights a little at a time in the past several years. That can start to add up.

 

[21941]

Illegal Stop

If you are singled out without a reasonable articulable suspicion by a LEO and pulled over to merely satisfy his/her curiosity as to whether you have a motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license in your pocket, it is an illegal stop.

An investigatory stop of a motor vehicle is permitted if, after the police officers have assessed all the circumstances, they have a ÔÇ£particularized suspicion ... that the particular individual being stopped is engaged in wrongdoing.ÔÇØ United States v. Cortez, 449 U.S. 411, 418, 101 S.Ct. 690, 695, 66 L.Ed.2d 621, 629 (1981).

Without bad driving, problem with your license plates, or a checkpoint where everyone is stopped, it should be considered by the Court as an intrusion.

 

[statdawg]

I wonder if my hi viz vest that has block letters POLITE on the back would cause a concern ? It does cause good driving around me.

 

[Rpbump]

I have been stopped while driving my cage 3 times over the last 45 years for license, insurance, safety checks. I have no problem with LEO's performing this task especially if people without insurance or a valid drivers license are removed from the road. The last stop was about 3 years ago and there was a warning sign that cars would be pulled over 1 mile ahead. There were several turn offs before the spot where vehicles were stopped. I asked the LEO why a warning was posted and his reply was that the warning would eliminate the drivers protests about illegal search. He went on to say that many that ignored the warning were DUI, had no drivers license, or had no insurance (many that were stopped were guilty of all three violations). The cost to all of us that drive legally and are insured must be substantial and I have no problem with weeding out those that violate the law. I'm hoping that the FL Legislature will pass a bill outlawing cell phone use by vehicle operators as there have been 5 incidents in the past 18 months where I had to brake hard or take evasive action due to the inattention of cell phone using drivers while riding my bike. There have also been incidents while driving my cage but the cell phone users do see cars most of the time as opposed to seeing bikes. Enough of this rant Ride Safe

 

[sit]

The OP is in Canada, how did this observation, post about a stop there turn into a bunch of mis information about US law, which changes from state to state.

And as for Terry Stops:
Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), was a decision by the United States Supreme Court which held that the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures is not violated when a police officer stops a suspect on the street and searches him without probable cause to arrest, if the police officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime.

As for Oregon and my department, yes, we need probable cause, or it needs to be relayed to us, for us to stop a car, and stop is used in the regular sense, legally it is a traffic detention as it is a temporary, limited intrusion on your time to investigate a violation and is of limited scope. Most Oregon traffic laws are not crimes. So in my state, yes there will be a reason for the stop.

What always disappoints me about these type of posts is how many people automatically think the officer is making up the reason for the stop. If you really think the police are that corrupt and dirty, 1) go to another country and see how they are there, 2) maybe try to learn some about what cops do, don't read it on the internet or watch it on Fox, but go on a ride a long. I can guarantee it will be fun and enlightening for you and you will learn something.

 

[Bud]

I posted last year on how my ridding partner and I were waved by the Motorcycle Safety Check Point on the Great River Road north of Alton, IL.

HD's and other cruisers were digging for their paperwork, license, insurance, registrations while we go to the fish place in Grafton ahead of them.

Win some, lose some.

 

[ragtoplvr]

I have been stopped 3X in those check points

Once on the bike

I always thank the officers for keeping the roads safe for me.

On the bike they asked for license and insurance. I told them the insurance card was under the back seat in a waterproof tube, Officer said You do not need to get it, I have never checked a BMW bike without MC endorsement or insurance. Then the officer said thank you, ride safe, have fun.

I am telling you, the officers do appreciate seeing ATGATT, and the bright green Olympia vest.

Rod

 

[Visian]

I posted last year on how my ridding partner and I were waved by the Motorcycle Safety Check Point on the Great River Road north of Alton, IL.

HD's and other cruisers were digging for their paperwork, license, insurance, registrations while we go to the fish place in Grafton ahead of them.

Win some, lose some.

so... riding an HD or a cruiser is a reason to suspect that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime?

What always disappoints me about these type of posts is how many people automatically think the officer is making up the reason for the stop. If you really think the police are that corrupt and dirty, 1) go to another country and see how they are there, 2) maybe try to learn some about what cops do, don't read it on the internet or watch it on Fox, but go on a ride a long. I can guarantee it will be fun and enlightening for you and you will learn something.

i don't think anyone in this thread has accused police officers of being corrupt or dirty. it would be healthier for this disucussion to keep such generalizations to yourself.

and i've got a number of police officer friends that have told me *first hand* that the "reasonable cause" is a fig leaf with broad coverage.

through personal experience i do firmly believe that *some* police officers abuse this power.

ian

 

[redclfco]

( snip).... i do firmly believe that *some* police officers abuse this power.(unsnip)
ian

i do firmly believe that *some* bikers both HD and others have somthing to hide..probably a higher rate with the outlaw HD bikes than with old fart, straight laced BMW operators..higher than average than your cage drivers, IMHO, of course, with NOTHING to back it up, so don't go there.

Just an opinion based on the scooter trash I've known in my life........


Safe checks should be done (once again IMHO) consistantly, across the board with everyone in line..or not done at all. But? Who knows, I'm not the cop or the law maker, I'm just a guy in line here..

 

[robertklee]

Some people just don't like police. These threads always go in the same direction. Why don't you talk about something important like your rear main seal leaking or an aftermarket seat...you know-motorcycle stuff.

 

[redclfco]

Some people just don't like police. These threads always go in the same direction. Why don't you talk about something important like your rear main seal leaking or an aftermarket seat...you know-motorcycle stuff.

That good conversation is usually found up in the gear thread or the tech threads, The campfire sort of attracts in us low lifes wanting answers to the BIG picture..


For the record, I like LEO's, they are the same dude who saves your life in an accident...nobody should forget that!

 

[robertklee]

That good conversation is usually found up in the gear thread or the tech threads, The campfire sort of attracts in us low lifes wanting answers to the BIG picture..


For the record, I like LEO's, they are the same dude who saves your life in an accident...nobody should forget that!

Oh, yeah. Guess you're right. I know your type-A "What's the meaning of life" type of guy. Sorry. I'm more of a "Why are my valves making that funny noise" sort...and I've been a LEO for thirty plus years.

 

[hlothery]

What always disappoints me about these type of posts is how many people automatically think the officer is making up the reason for the stop. .

I certainly do not think that. I served 23 years in the military so do not mind rules and regulations, and I have great respect for law enforcement officials. However, I do not want to be randomly stopped just to see if all is well. If I present probable cause that all is not well, then stop me. Otherwise, I will only agree with this method if all traffic is being stopped, no matter how many wheels. Try that sometime and see how many folks agree with me.

 

[redclfco]

Oh, yeah. Guess you're right. I know your type-A "What's the meaning of life" type of guy. Sorry. I'm more of a "Why are my valves making that funny noise" sort...and I've been a LEO for thirty plus years.

Na, I don't believe that all LEO's type cast people without knowing them..na not all of em anyway. As for me, I like both the macro and micro in life.

Thank you for all your years of public service; from getting the drunks off the road to picking up and saving people who splatter themselves on the road.

I truly believe if more people said thank you al ot more to our men and women in uniform, the world on both sides of the typecasting issue, the world would be a better place.

 

[Visian]

i do firmly believe that *some* bikers both HD and others have somthing to hide..probably a higher rate with the outlaw HD bikes than with old fart, straight laced BMW operators..higher than average than your cage drivers, IMHO, of course, with NOTHING to back it up, so don't go there.

Just an opinion based on the scooter trash I've known in my life........


Safe checks should be done (once again IMHO) consistantly, across the board with everyone in line..or not done at all. But? Who knows, I'm not the cop or the law maker, I'm just a guy in line here..

so, we are in agreement.

just because there are some abusers on both sides of the equation doesn't mean people on the law enforcement side have the right to stop someone who is doing nothing wrong.

and it sure doesn't mean all riders are scooter trash, and all police officers are corrupt or abuse their power.