2004 R1150 surging/bucking/poor running

[r65_steve]

I have been having an on going issue with my R1150. 55K owned since 2018 (with 27K) It started as a feeling of resistance when riding. On the highway, the twisties, etc it was like you were riding into a headwind. I did plugs, valves, cleaned electrical connections, etc. Still there. I took it to a reputable shop and the fuel filter had developed a pinhole in it. It was replaced along with the little fuel lines (straight from Germany for one of them!). The idle had been high, so that was set to normal, and the throttle bodies balanced.

I immediately noticed that there was now a dead spot when cruising. Anywhere from 3500 to 4500. Pulling the throttle harder wasn't an issue, just a gradual rise would feel like a dead spot. Of course, a yank on the grip and I'd be going faster than I wanted. Sometimes, it'd feel like a bucking sensation. I know this can be a common problem with this engine.

I took it back today and he adjusted the TPS with the GS 911. No better. Swapped in another used TPS that came with the bike. No better. (In fact I never rode it with that unit). A used one from his collection. No better. We've agreed that I'll come back when he has a known good running bike in the shop to test against mine. On the way back from the shop about 40 miles, plus a lot of stop and go traffic, it stalled out 4 times.

In the meantime here's some other facts. It's missing the pink relay for the 02 sensor (I only know this from forum reading, I assume that's what's missing). There are no jumpers in the pins of the missing relay. Bike still has the charcoal cannister. Coils were replaced a couple seasons ago, verified OK by the shop. Bike came installed with a AF-XIED (https://www.beemerboneyard.com/bmwafo2sema.html).

Huh, in creating this post, I see this on the beemerboneyard page: THE AF-XIED REQUIRES A STRONG O2 SIGNAL. IF YOUR O2 SENSOR HAS MORE THAN 50,000 MILES ON IT YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER BUYING A NEW O2 SENSOR WHEN INSTALLING THE AF-XIED. YOU CAN FIND THEM ON THIS PAGE FOR 1100, 1150 & K1200 MODELS
I'm right at that mileage.

While I'm waiting for him to get back to me, what can I check on my own or think about replacing? I like this bike but also want a newer bike. I'm debating on how much money I want to throw at it, but it's also bordering on worthless if it doesn't run nicely.

 

[fbt80]

While waiting...read about removing the charcoal cannister. Not hard, a few breather lines to remove and or plug. Should have plenty of directions on this site. Left alone it will continue to dump granules of charcoal into your fuel system. Remove ASAP and clean out everything down stream of the Cannister. Listen to no one who sez to keep it.
Fun times.

 

[r65_steve]

While waiting...read about removing the charcoal cannister. Not hard, a few breather lines to remove and or plug. Should have plenty of directions on this site. Left alone it will continue to dump granules of charcoal into your fuel system. Remove ASAP and clean out everything down stream of the Cannister. Listen to no one who sez to keep it.
Fun times.

Thanks. I read up on this last night. I will see if I can address this evening. I have to look at the schematic I found as I don't fully understand how it could introduce granules downstream. It appeared that a fuel goes to it, but all other lines FROM it run to ground. Literally, dump on the ground.

 

[riderr1150gsadv]

The canisterectomy is one of the most performed 'surgeries' on the 1150 bikes. I did on both my RT and GSA.
A plugged canister will create a vacuum in the fuel system, starving the bike and making it run rough. As to running rough did you also check the HES sensor and its wiring?

 

[r65_steve]

The canisterectomy is one of the most performed 'surgeries' on the 1150 bikes. I did on both my RT and GSA.
A plugged canister will create a vacuum in the fuel system, starving the bike and making it run rough. As to running rough did you also check the HES sensor and its wiring?

I did not check it, but I forgot to mention that the shop that did the fuel filter put on a new Alt belt, so I assume it got some eyes on it that day.


I found a really nice diagram last night on my home computer of what to re-route for this canisterectomy. I can't find it now, darn it. I kind of get what you're saying, that the vapors are pulled back into the throttle bodies. Right?

This bike is 20 years old and that canister looks a bit dodgy. I'll pull it off and see what's what.

 

[20774]

A video on a canisterectomy:

Also this info:

canisterectomy How?

What's the procedure for removing the canister? Mine is a R850R, assume the same for R1100R.

forums.bmwmoa.org

 

[r65_steve]

A video on a canisterectomy:

Also this info:

canisterectomy How?

What's the procedure for removing the canister? Mine is a R850R, assume the same for R1100R.

forums.bmwmoa.org

Chris' videos are great, thanks. I'll work on this tonight.
In your attached link it mentioned dropping the bike and fouling the canister. I did drop it a few weeks ago, it had started to act up before that, as I recall, but it's pretty bad now.

 

[kbasa]

Valves are set right and all, yes? Just checking basics.

 

[MOONDOG59]

I have been having an on going issue with my R1150. 55K owned since 2018 (with 27K) It started as a feeling of resistance when riding. On the highway, the twisties, etc it was like you were riding into a headwind. I did plugs, valves, cleaned electrical connections, etc. Still there. I took it to a reputable shop and the fuel filter had developed a pinhole in it. It was replaced along with the little fuel lines (straight from Germany for one of them!). The idle had been high, so that was set to normal, and the throttle bodies balanced.

I immediately noticed that there was now a dead spot when cruising. Anywhere from 3500 to 4500. Pulling the throttle harder wasn't an issue, just a gradual rise would feel like a dead spot. Of course, a yank on the grip and I'd be going faster than I wanted. Sometimes, it'd feel like a bucking sensation. I know this can be a common problem with this engine.

I took it back today and he adjusted the TPS with the GS 911. No better. Swapped in another used TPS that came with the bike. No better. (In fact I never rode it with that unit). A used one from his collection. No better. We've agreed that I'll come back when he has a known good running bike in the shop to test against mine. On the way back from the shop about 40 miles, plus a lot of stop and go traffic, it stalled out 4 times.

In the meantime here's some other facts. It's missing the pink relay for the 02 sensor (I only know this from forum reading, I assume that's what's missing). There are no jumpers in the pins of the missing relay. Bike still has the charcoal cannister. Coils were replaced a couple seasons ago, verified OK by the shop. Bike came installed with a AF-XIED (https://www.beemerboneyard.com/bmwafo2sema.html).

Huh, in creating this post, I see this on the beemerboneyard page: THE AF-XIED REQUIRES A STRONG O2 SIGNAL. IF YOUR O2 SENSOR HAS MORE THAN 50,000 MILES ON IT YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER BUYING A NEW O2 SENSOR WHEN INSTALLING THE AF-XIED. YOU CAN FIND THEM ON THIS PAGE FOR 1100, 1150 & K1200 MODELS
I'm right at that mileage.

While I'm waiting for him to get back to me, what can I check on my own or think about replacing? I like this bike but also want a newer bike. I'm debating on how much money I want to throw at it, but it's also bordering on worthless if it doesn't run nicely.

My '04 R1150RS with 48k had issue last year just like the ones you describe. I did all kinds of repairs and it would not start or run well. Took it to Paul's Garage in Atlanta GA and he found the fix in less than a week (I had been working on it over a year). He found submerged fuel lines in the tank that were split.
During start, it would take time for fuel to get to the fuel injectors. It would idle ok after starting but then after riding a short distance it would start to buck and surge. At this point I think the fuel was getting pump back into the tank by the split line instead of getting to the injectors. There was enough fuel flow/pressure at idle but once the demand increased. My theory.

I had changed the filter, so all that nonsense in the tank looked "ok" to me. A split line may not have been visible. I didn't have a fuel pressure gauge to check pressures. On my to-do-list.

 

[r65_steve]

Valves are set right and all, yes? Just checking basics.

Yup!

 

[r65_steve]

My '04 R1150RS with 48k had issue last year just like the ones you describe. I did all kinds of repairs and it would not start or run well. Took it to Paul's Garage in Atlanta GA and he found the fix in less than a week (I had been working on it over a year). He found submerged fuel lines in the tank that were split.
During start, it would take time for fuel to get to the fuel injectors. It would idle ok after starting but then after riding a short distance it would start to buck and surge. At this point I think the fuel was getting pump back into the tank by the split line instead of getting to the injectors. There was enough fuel flow/pressure at idle but once the demand increased. My theory.

I had changed the filter, so all that nonsense in the tank looked "ok" to me. A split line may not have been visible. I didn't have a fuel pressure gauge to check pressures. On my to-do-list.

I found your posts about it (when I did a search, n00b!!) and I'm ruling that out because they shop replaced both little hoses in the tank. Rockster/Roadster bikes need two hoses (maybe they all do), the U is common, but the other hose had to come from Germany! (Can't say when it came off the shelf in Munich it wasn't 20 year old NOS and immediately failed....but....)

 

[fbt80]

Chris' videos are great, thanks. I'll work on this tonight.
In your attached link it mentioned dropping the bike and fouling the canister. I did drop it a few weeks ago, it had started to act up before that, as I recall, but it's pretty bad now.

That video will show how the charcoal gets into the fuel supply. Replace the HES, it's under $200 bucks, get from EME. The "wiring" mentioned will not be seen much at all during the Alt belt switch, anywhere down the wire hidden by sheathing could be the break. At the connection pull it, zoom into my shot and look at the insulation. BMW installed poor wiring that degrades with heat and time...bad things happen after that. New parts have good wire with silicon sheathing. Member gsaddict rewires old ones if you want a spare.

 

[r65_steve]

The canisterectomy is one of the most performed 'surgeries' on the 1150 bikes. I did on both my RT and GSA.
A plugged canister will create a vacuum in the fuel system, starving the bike and making it run rough. As to running rough did you also check the HES sensor and its wiring?

Here's the link I was speaking of: https://ibmwr.org/index.php/1997/07/10/carbon-canister-removal/

When I went to take it off, the middle hose (from the tank) was off the nipple. As I'm taking it off, it's crumbling in my hand and leaking charcoal all over the bike and garage floor. The line to the solenoid was jam packed with charcoal. I shook it all out the direction it entered and none seemed to come out the other side (towards) the throttle bodies.

It's amazingly hot here, so gonna wait till things cool off to test ride it.

 

[r65_steve]

 

[r65_steve]

That video will show how the charcoal gets into the fuel supply. Replace the HES, it's under $200 bucks, get from EME. The "wiring" mentioned will not be seen much at all during the Alt belt switch, anywhere down the wire hidden by sheathing could be the break. At the connection pull it, zoom into my shot and look at the insulation. BMW installed poor wiring that degrades with heat and time...bad things happen after that. New parts have good wire with silicon sheathing. Member gsaddict rewires old ones if you want a spare.

Ok thanks. $200 here, $200 there adds up, but I'm not opposed to do it as good PM.

 

[r65_steve]

The road test/More data... left the house and bike pulled strong and normal from my street up until the 2nd light two miles away where it died. Backroad cruise too about 10 min of riding for the problem to come back with a vengeance. It would buck/surge and be unpredictable. At light where I needed to turn, I just didn't trust it with a smooth roll on of the throttle. Yikes. I punished myself riding it around for another 10 minutes. Died again at the light into my neighborhood.


It's all hot now, tomorrow, I will pull the tank and test with the O2 and AF-XIED disconnected.

It all seems heat related.

Would/could a hot HES create trouble like this?

 

[riderr1150gsadv]

You’re likely on the right track as it does seem heat related. Coils, HES, O2 sensor and spark plugs come to mind. Hope it helps..

 

[r65_steve]

That video will show how the charcoal gets into the fuel supply. Replace the HES, it's under $200 bucks, get from EME. The "wiring" mentioned will not be seen much at all during the Alt belt switch, anywhere down the wire hidden by sheathing could be the break. At the connection pull it, zoom into my shot and look at the insulation. BMW installed poor wiring that degrades with heat and time...bad things happen after that. New parts have good wire with silicon sheathing. Member gsaddict rewires old ones if you want a spare.

I called Beemerboneyard to discuss the 02 sensor and he said that what I was describing didn't sound like a dying 02 sensor...he said that was more gradual. I described the experience I'm having and he said it sounded like the HES. Said as it gets hot, it starts arcing and creating problems until one day it fails and you walk home. I thought with the HES it was a yes or no as to whether you were riding that time. I'm in the maybe zone.

Since it's good insurance, I ordered one. I'm still going to experiment with unplugging the 02/AF-XIED and seeing what happens, but this should be here on Monday. I'll inspect the wiring in the meantime.

I'm glad this is a naked bike, it's pretty easy to remove the tank over and over again.

 

[kbasa]

I called Beemerboneyard to discuss the 02 sensor and he said that what I was describing didn't sound like a dying 02 sensor...he said that was more gradual. I described the experience I'm having and he said it sounded like the HES. Said as it gets hot, it starts arcing and creating problems until one day it fails and you walk home. I thought with the HES it was a yes or no as to whether you were riding that time. I'm in the maybe zone.

Since it's good insurance, I ordered one. I'm still going to experiment with unplugging the 02/AF-XIED and seeing what happens, but this should be here on Monday. I'll inspect the wiring in the meantime.

I'm glad this is a naked bike, it's pretty easy to remove the tank over and over again.

That's what I'd do to diagnose: return it to completely stock and see what happens. A friend had one of those enrichener things on his 1200GS and his bike started acting weird at altitude. He's all flummoxed, so the first thing I did was get him to take it off and everything returned to normal.

That might be illustrative for you as you diagnose it.

 

[r65_steve]

Hey @fbt80 is this the right plug for the HES? I watched a video and he highlighted the plug laying atop the motronic. Mine has completely different colors than yours. I traced this and it disappears behind the alternator. And yeah, you can't see any wiring if you take off the cover.