2012 1200RT I need help with engine poor idle and dying

[SatchelHopkins]

I need some help​

I really need some help/advice for an idle issue that I'm having on my 2012 R 1200RT. Sorry for the length of the post.

Background​

I recently purchased this bike used with 49K miles on it. I had thought it idled rough and would die easily when leaving a stop, but I didn't know to question it really. The bike immediately had a leaking main seal and went back to the dealer who fixed it at their cost, but it was away for 3 weeks. Once I got it back I went on my first multi-hour ride. This is when I noticed that it ran fine while moving, but when stopping with the clutch in or while sitting at a stop, it would idle roughly and sometimes die.

Currently after the work that I have done​

1. When cranking the bike, the engine starts, RPMs drop to around 500 and the bike sounds and feels like it is about to die. Then the RPMs climb up to about 1200 and it kind or roughly idles there okay.
2. When blipping the throttle, the RPMs go up and as they come back down the bike will either die or they will drop to about 500 and the bike sounds and feels like it is about to die. Then the RPMs climb up to about 1200 and it kind or roughly idles there okay.
3. When attempting to ride, if you get the bike going you are pretty okay. You can coast as long as the drive is engaged to provide some forward umph to the engine. If you pull the clutch with the throttle closed, like when coming to a stop, then the bike will die every time.

I knew that the dealer had replaced the engine oil and filter, but I didn't know what else had been done to the bike, or when. So I decided to do some maintenance items.

What I've done (related to the issue)​

• Ran half a bottle of Techron through the bike
• Replaced the 4 spark plugs
• Checked all valve clearances (all were in spec)
• Replaced the air filter
• Performed the throttle position sensor calibration that I found online relating to battery, key, throttle, key, start, sequence
• Reset idle actuators using GS911
• Performed throttle body sync with GS911 and The Digi Sync vacuum tool (funny, everything seems to go okay with the sync, then when you are done and click OK, the GS911 unlocks the idle actuators and the bike immediately dies)
• Visually looked for vacuum leaks, capped off vac ports with new stoppers, sprayed starter fluid around everywhere to look for an RPM change, nothing found

Notes​

1. To my perception there was zero free play in the throttle at the hand grip as well as at the throttle bodies. I'm not sure if the valves were fully closed or not. I tried screwing in both sides to gain some slack. It did become a bit looser but there still does not appear to be a couple millimeters of slack or anything. This is probably why it runs worse now. Maybe they were keeping a tiny bit of throttle going to keep it from dying at idle all the time???
2. The little splitter/cruise control box had the cover slightly popped open. So I assume that the tech was in their trying to figure something out previously.
3. Reading the throttle position sensor on the GS911 does show a reading range of 0-100.5 which I assume is working correctly.

Videos of my bike​

Video of the engine running and dying

Video of the throttle cables

Possible issue and solution, but I'm dumb​

I found this post where a fellow was having very similar issues to me, which he corrected by loosening his cruise control cable. I have no idea how any of this cabling works, so I'm at a loss on how to mess with the cruise control. I'm currently trying to investigate further on this.
https://forums.bmwmoa.org/threads/2013-r1200rt-undershooting-idle-rpm-at-throttle-close.106266/

If you have read this far, thank you. Please let me know if you have any ideas.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I know this isn't really much help, but it sounds like the bike's natural idle (with whatever is going on with it) is that low and you are seeing the idle control raise the RPM as a real-time correction. The same happens if you disconnect a fuel injector while the bike is running. When you ride, it forgets about that correction and then has to compensate for it again next time the revs drop too much. So don't be distracted by the fact that the RPM rises slowly; you need to fix the fact that it drops. Ensuring there is slack in the cables, no air leaks, and proper idle calibration is the starting point.

You can probably find the real-time idle correction value in the GS-911 app. If you had another bike to compare values with, you might have something else to work with.

When you start the bike cold and it eases up to idle speed, do both header pipes get hot at the same rate?

 

[SatchelHopkins]

I know this isn't really much help, but it sounds like the bike's natural idle (with whatever is going on with it) is that low and you are seeing the idle control raise the RPM as a real-time correction. The same happens if you disconnect a fuel injector while the bike is running. When you ride, it forgets about that correction and then has to compensate for it again next time the revs drop too much. So don't be distracted by the fact that the RPM rises slowly; you need to fix the fact that it drops. Ensuring there is slack in the cables, no air leaks, and proper idle calibration is the starting point.

You can probably find the real-time idle correction value in the GS-911 app. If you had another bike to compare values with, you might have something else to work with.

When you start the bike cold and it eases up to idle speed, do both header pipes get hot at the same rate?

@AntonLargiader Thank you. That idea about the idle correction is real time is an insightful piece of information. I will try to use that lens when viewing the issue.

I am not familiar with what all the values mean that are available in the GS-911. I just don't have the scientific knowledge to understand what is really happing with the correlation of those numbers. Back to high school stoichiometry I guess. Anyway, I will try to perform a full data logging capture and post a link to the CSV in case it anyone else understands it.

Please tell me if this sounds correct, if you are familiar, to make sure I understand the fundamentals. If I had a properly set up engine with all good parts and I completely disconnected the throttle cables, then the engine should crank and idle at the right level by manipulating the air through the idle actuators (and fuel I suppose). Is that correct? In other words, as far as idle is concerned, the engine is happiest not having any input from the throttle?

I will check on the headers heating question as soon as I can and report back.

 

[Lendog]

at that mileage I do not normally see throttle body bushings/seals worn enough to be the issue, assuming the odometer is correct, after checking the cables for binding and clearances,
Warm the engine then disconnect the battery to erase the previous owners riding style, after 10 minutes reconnect the battery hit the starter and take off without much idling, ride as you ride to create a new memory of your riding style, this is where I would start my diagnosis

 

[SatchelHopkins]

@AntonLargiader I have checked the heating of the headers and they seem to warm up equally.

Also, I ran a data capture on the GS-911 for a few minutes while idling, blipping the throttle, etc. I put it into a spreadsheet and tried to outline some things on it as well as possible.

• I have filtered the Injection time column (B) to only show rows with data. This hides a ton of "blank" rows and makes it easier to read. However it hides a bunch of data toward the righthand end of the spreadsheet as that data does not line up at the same millisecond as that on the lefthand side. Unfilter column B to see that data on the righthand end.
• Columns where the data never changed I shaded in gray.
• I have added some columns and shaded them in blue which calculate the difference between the two previous columns. This is to see if those columns really report independent data or if maybe one sensor reports to two different columns, for example Temp cylinder head 1 and 2 (orange columns) always shows the exact same temp. So they either heat up exactly the same or their is really only one sensor.
• I have shaded rows in yellow where the throttle valve is opened. They can be used to see changes at the same time for things like RPM, engine load %, and other things that I don't understand.

Here is the spreadsheet:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C8R-WBXuPhnrJIeXHLWIEA7r4R7SUUYg/view?usp=sharing

Cables
Additionally, I have been studying the cabling. I think I have a good understanding of how input comes into the splitter from cruise, throttle open, and throttle close, and is then transferred to left and right throttle body valve cables. So I am currently making an effort to adjust these prior to doing anything else. It makes me want to just disconnect everything and see if it works better.

 

[SatchelHopkins]

at that mileage I do not normally see throttle body bushings/seals worn enough to be the issue, assuming the odometer is correct, after checking the cables for binding and clearances,
Warm the engine then disconnect the battery to erase the previous owners riding style, after 10 minutes reconnect the battery hit the starter and take off without much idling, ride as you ride to create a new memory of your riding style, this is where I would start my diagnosis

Hi @Lendog, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it.

It is good to hear that maybe mileage is not an issue. The GS-911 does pull that same mileage from the computer, so I'm hoping/assuming that it is correct.
I am going back through the cables currently.

I will try your procedure as soon as I can. The last time I tried to take a ride (Sunday) I was barely able to limp around my neighborhood, so I don't know how it will go. I could get the bike moving, but anytime I would stop or even shift gears the bike would die, so it didn't make it easy. I did not let the bike warm up or do the battery stuff as you mentioned though, so I will try it out.

Thank you.

 

[SatchelHopkins]

Update regarding lower coils:

I'm still messing with the cables. In the meantime though, on the bottom coil packs, I disconnected them one at a time and both at once. (I disconnected the low voltage plug going to the coil) I then ran the bike in each of those state at idle and while revving, looking for some sort of a difference of behavior. I couldn't really tell any difference in any of those states. It idled the same whether the coils were plugged in or not. It revved up about the same. And when letting off the throttle, it died the same.

I have not tried it with the upper coils.

 

[SatchelHopkins]

Important Update (I think)​

I adjusted all cables for slack. I then reset the throttle position sensor and calibrated the idle actuators.

I went through the synchronization process (which locks the idle actuators). I spent some time on this and got the bike running much better. I could only get the numbers within 2 of each other, but it was much smoother and when blipped the RPMs would settle back down to idle rather than swiftly dropping to zero.

I really thought I had it beat. Then at the end you click Ok on the computer to finish the process and it unlocks the idle actuators. The instant I clicked Ok the bike died and will no long crank and idle or run without giving it some manual throttle.

SOOOO, does this mean that one of the idle actuators could be bad? Something clogged in the throttle body? Someone messed with the "do not mess with these screws" screws in the past? Some other fourth thing?

I would try to take it for a ride, but it's just not feasible right now.

Any thoughts are genuinely appreciated.


p.s. If nothing else, I'm getting a lot more comfortable tearing this thing apart.

 

[AntonLargiader]

You could be right about the stop screws. Are they contacting the stop tab on the cable cam when the throttle is closed? Seems to me the throttles shouldn't be able to close so much that the engine won't run. The idle steppers should only have to fine-adjust.

 

[SatchelHopkins]

Temporary conclusion​

Fingers crossed, I have the bike back to running. I went on a test ride across town with no panels on the bike. I think that it is running a bit better than when I got it. I have no doubt that I probably need to go through a sync process again, but I'm going to hold off for a little while and see how things go.

What happened​

I was getting ready to pull the throttle bodies out to look over everything. Then I remembered running across a forum post from 2015 that said anytime you monkey around with the air and fuel that you need to run the Rest Adaptations function on the GS-911. So, I did this, and bingo, when I cranked it, it just started working. Computers...what're you gonna do?

However​

So, the starter will no longer engage unless the bike's in neutral, regardless of the side stand, clutch, or any of that. Resetting the adaptations does clear the gear indicator sensor voltages and they have to be relearned by the computer, apparently. So, I'm hoping that this issue will clear up on its own.

Thanks​

Thanks for the help everyone. I really appreciate it. It seems like there are about 34 different things that can cause weird idle problems, so every idea may the one that helps somebody out.

 

[AntonLargiader]

So, the starter will no longer engage unless the bike's in neutral, regardless of the side stand, clutch, or any of that.

Hook the scan tool back up and look at the real time values for the clutch and sidestand switches.

 

[SatchelHopkins]

Hook the scan tool back up and look at the real time values for the clutch and sidestand switches.

As info: The clutch switch was going bad intermittently. It finally totally failed, which made it easier to figure out with the GS911. The switch is called the "microphone" switch. It contains two microswitches, one for the clutch all the way in (cranking) and another for a little clutch lever movement to kill the cruise control. Yep $150 microswitch. All good now.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Ah yes, the complete POS “dual microphone switch”. I’ve replaced many. They are built like total junk inside the epoxy.