2000 r1100rt - No spark, check list please?

[RTandGS]

Update

Gentlemen thank you!
A new (used) coil installed and she fired right up. I have only ridden down the block and back to see if she shifts and stops so I don't know what else might crop up from this bike that's been sitting for 8 years, but I will change fluids and adjust the valves (?), I have no history of repair for this bike. I am hoping the local BMW will help me with a VIN check but now that it's running I have hope! It runs pretty nice!

 

[gsaddict]

Gentlemen thank you!
A new (used) coil installed and she fired right up. I have only ridden down the block and back to see if she shifts and stops so I don't know what else might crop up from this bike that's been sitting for 8 years, but I will change fluids and adjust the valves (?), I have no history of repair for this bike. I am hoping the local BMW will help me with a VIN check but now that it's running I have hope! It runs pretty nice!

Make sure you replace the OE rubber brake lines with SS Teflon ones. (if it hasn't been done already)
Your life depends on doing so.
I prefer Spiegler brand - fit first time, every time.

 

[RTandGS]

I spoke too soon?

I went to start the bike and nothing.

GSAddict I need your electrical expertise!

It cranked though not strong or for long, and died pretty quickly and it's a new battery.
I pulled a plug, got it to crank just a few more times and no spark.
So-is there a voltage needed to make a spark or should it spark regardless of voltage? I ran this bike, so the battery should have been topped off right? Starter pulling too much? Alternator not working right? Can you think of why I wouldn't have spark now after getting it running and can you tell me how to chase this down?
Thanks!

 

[gsaddict]

I went to start the bike and nothing.

GSAddict I need your electrical expertise!

It cranked though not strong or for long, and died pretty quickly and it's a new battery.
I pulled a plug, got it to crank just a few more times and no spark.
So-is there a voltage needed to make a spark or should it spark regardless of voltage? I ran this bike, so the battery should have been topped off right? Starter pulling too much? Alternator not working right? Can you think of why I wouldn't have spark now after getting it running and can you tell me how to chase this down?
Thanks!

The Motronic needs at least 9V to function properly.
Unless you rode for a good long time chances are the battery is in a poor state of charge and the system voltage is dropping too low when cranking.
Start by fully charging with a 5-8 amp charger. Then try again.
When running, the alternator should be putting out 13.9 -14.1v @ 2500+rpm

Next you may have a starter magnet failure resulting excessive cranking current drawing the voltage too low.

The thing to remember is it's not like the old days of CDI ignition providing a spark at regardless of cranking voltage/speed.

 

[RTandGS]

Thanks for that. Battery charged I put it back in, cranked, didn't start.
Checked, no spark.
Pulled tank. cleaned coil connector mostly because I didn't know what else to try so i just tried something. Then I made sure side stand was up, neutral light lit, and I got spark.
put tank back on and she fired. I rode to gas and a few miles and back.
I'm not sure what the difference was, I doubt the connector was it.

NOW- when I had it running last Sunday the bike would start and pull away with the sidestand down. So, I figured that was disconnected. But today no spark side stand down, but a spark with the side stand up AND now the neutral light doesn't work. No green light on dash when in neutral. Does this sound like something you've seen? Or is this just old bike wiring gremlins?
Thanks!

 

[pglaves]

Thanks for that. Battery charged I put it back in, cranked, didn't start.
Checked, no spark.
Pulled tank. cleaned coil connector mostly because I didn't know what else to try so i just tried something. Then I made sure side stand was up, neutral light lit, and I got spark.
put tank back on and she fired. I rode to gas and a few miles and back.
I'm not sure what the difference was, I doubt the connector was it.

NOW- when I had it running last Sunday the bike would start and pull away with the sidestand down. So, I figured that was disconnected. But today no spark side stand down, but a spark with the side stand up AND now the neutral light doesn't work. No green light on dash when in neutral. Does this sound like something you've seen? Or is this just old bike wiring gremlins?
Thanks!

It actually sounds "normal". The gear switches tend to get oily and erratic. Sometimes several shifts in and out of neutral will clean the contacts so it knows it is in neutral. But you have to depend on the clutch switch until a new gear switch is installed.

 

[RTandGS]

Ah! Okay. I'll research the gear switch and chase it down.

Yes, the bike won't turn over unless I pull in the clutch, even if I'm in neutral. Is that normal?

 

[m_stock10506]

Ah! Okay. I'll research the gear switch and chase it down.

Yes, the bike won't turn over unless I pull in the clutch, even if I'm in neutral. Is that normal?

Yes, normal. Safety mechanism. Won't start unless the clutch is pulled if the bike is NOT in neutral. But, it isn't monitoring the gear indicator on the RID, it is monitoring the Neutral light. You have a "lazy" neutral switch. Doesn't always engage the lamp even though the gearbox is in neutral. And it's the neutral switch,not the gear indicator switch, which is a different part. Neutral switch can be changed - with great difficulty - without removing the swing arm, but most guys live with it until they do a spline lube or clutch replacement and then access is easy.

 

[RTandGS]

Yes, normal. Safety mechanism. Won't start unless the clutch is pulled if the bike is NOT in neutral. But, it isn't monitoring the gear indicator on the RID, it is monitoring the Neutral light. You have a "lazy" neutral switch. Doesn't always engage the lamp even though the gearbox is in neutral. And it's the neutral switch,not the gear indicator switch, which is a different part. Neutral switch can be changed - with great difficulty - without removing the swing arm, but most guys live with it until they do a spline lube or clutch replacement and then access is easy.

Alright that sounds correct. I appreciate that clarity.

 

[happy wanderer]

Mine's been doing that for a couple of years. The lazy neutral is a feature problem on the 1100. Two interlocks; side stand and neutral switch and both must be made for the bike to start as per schematic. Good to see you figured it out!

So if this ever happens to you far from home both those switches go to connectors that can be opened and temporarily shorted to complete the circuit and get you home. DAMHIK..

Next time you have the tupperware off make a point of following both those wiring harnesses to the connector so you know where they are if this ever happens. The sidestand is easy; it's under the left hand side cover and the front one can be found by following it down the handlebar. Easy to see when the fairing panels are off.

My Y2K 1100RT neutral light does not really work until the bike has had a good long warmup and even then it can be intermittent. Lots of us old farts had bikes when these indicators did not exist so your left toe (right for Brit bikes) got very good at knowing where neutral was and you mentally kept track of what gear you were in judging by speed and RPM. And RPM was learned by listening and feel. But we got spoiled! Nowadays I shift down and while sitting at a light wonder why the heck my N light is not on...

It'll get fixed at the next spline lube.

 

[BC1100S]

Lots of us old farts had bikes when these indicators did not exist so your left toe (right for Brit bikes) got very good at knowing where neutral was and you mentally kept track of what gear you were in judging by speed and RPM. And RPM was learned by listening and feel. But we got spoiled!!

Spoiled? Absolutely. And it's amazing how quickly it happens. For years (and years) I prided myself on looking at the speedo and tach and automatically knowing which gear I was in. After a very short time with a bike which displays what gear I'm in, I have no clue. Shame on me for falling into the clutches of this technology.

Thankfully, my other bike still forces me to use my brain.

 

[RTandGS]

Mine's been doing that for a couple of years. The lazy neutral is a feature problem on the 1100. Two interlocks; side stand and neutral switch and both must be made for the bike to start as per schematic. Good to see you figured it out!

So if this ever happens to you far from home both those switches go to connectors that can be opened and temporarily shorted to complete the circuit and get you home. DAMHIK..

Next time you have the tupperware off make a point of following both those wiring harnesses to the connector so you know where they are if this ever happens. The sidestand is easy; it's under the left hand side cover and the front one can be found by following it down the handlebar. Easy to see when the fairing panels are off.

My Y2K 1100RT neutral light does not really work until the bike has had a good long warmup and even then it can be intermittent. Lots of us old farts had bikes when these indicators did not exist so your left toe (right for Brit bikes) got very good at knowing where neutral was and you mentally kept track of what gear you were in judging by speed and RPM. And RPM was learned by listening and feel. But we got spoiled! Nowadays I shift down and while sitting at a light wonder why the heck my N light is not on...

It'll get fixed at the next spline lube.

Well I'm not sure I have...
Went to start yesterday, sidestand down, clutch in, it fired and died quickly.
So I twisted the choke on, and it wouldn't fire again. Lifted the side stand, choke off, nothing. Throttle wide open, nothing.
So I'm certainly thinking it's a safety switch issue now, or am I confusing things by introducing the choke?

Is it just me or do some of you also stand over your bike saying " you ran yesterday! what's going on?"

All thoughts are welcomed here...I'm just perplexed...

 

[m_stock10506]

Well I'm not sure I have...
Went to start yesterday, sidestand down, clutch in, it fired and died quickly.
So I twisted the choke on, and it wouldn't fire again. Lifted the side stand, choke off, nothing. Throttle wide open, nothing.
So I'm certainly thinking it's a safety switch issue now, or am I confusing things by introducing the choke?

Is it just me or do some of you also stand over your bike saying " you ran yesterday! what's going on?"

All thoughts are welcomed here...I'm just perplexed...

Well, now I'm confused. Unless modified or a former police bike, the R1100RT will not start, will not even turn over, with the side stand down. The side stand and the kill switch both wire into the ignition power. If either of them is "off" you will not have power indication on the RID - no gear indicator, no fuel level, no temp - only the clock. There is no choke; it's just a fast idle lever. Functions the same as twisting the throttle a few degrees.

Fired and died quickly could be lots of things. I don't remember in the earlier posts whats been checked or replaced. Coil, HES, bad gas. You may have to start troubleshooting all over.

 

[happy wanderer]

If it's a no spark condition again I'd bet the wiring (connectors) for the side stand switch or clutch lever switch are flaky.

But before assuming... can you hear the fuel pump run briefly when you turn on the key? It pressurizes the fuel rail when the key is turned on and all safety interlocks are OK of course.

Is the RID display on when you turn on the key?

If both those things are OK then you should check for spark again.

By the way, where are you located? Filling in your profile with bikes you own and where you are is helpful in finding you help sometimes.

 

[roger 04 rt]

Well I'm not sure I have...
Went to start yesterday, sidestand down, clutch in, it fired and died quickly.
So I twisted the choke on, and it wouldn't fire again. Lifted the side stand, choke off, nothing. Throttle wide open, nothing.
So I'm certainly thinking it's a safety switch issue now, or am I confusing things by introducing the choke?

Is it just me or do some of you also stand over your bike saying " you ran yesterday! what's going on?"

All thoughts are welcomed here...I'm just perplexed...

The choke (fast idle lever) is not affecting your problem.

Here is a schematic which shows how the starting interlocks interact: https://www.mac-pac.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/R1100RT-Elec-Diagram-V2_2.pdf

The best way to work through this is with a DVM, making measurements at key points. The key is going step by step to rule things out.

One set of interlocks (kill and sidestand) affects power going to the fuel pump and Motronic relay. The other pair (clutch and neutral switches) affect ground going to the starter relay. If the starter motor turns over, it isn’t the latter. If it turns over and doesn’t have spark, it’s something to do with kill, sidestand, fuel pump or Motronic switches, wiring, relays or fuses.

Do you have a DVM?

 

[RTandGS]

DVM? I’m not sure what that is so I dont think I have one.

Yes the RID gives me gas level and gears and engine temp when I turn on. ABS is blinking too.

Yes I can hear the fuel pump cycle.

Not a former police bike as far as I know, it has the dual seat, and it came from Florida.

I have not checked again for spark because I figure the issue is spark and it’s a relay or something that is giving me this intermittent spark issue. I can smell fuel when I pull the plugs.

So... I’m thinking I will fine the sidestand switch and a we what shape it’s in. Is there a bypass technique to test it with? Can I just jump the two sides together and check for spark?

I’m grateful for the help.

 

[K7GLE]

DVM? I’m not sure what that is so I dont think I have one.

Digital volt meter. dirt cheap at Harbor Freight. Handy for checking wire continuity as well.

Personally I prefer an old analog type meter for counting pulses on my R1100RT's diagnostic socket...easier to get the sense from a swinging meter needle than from rapidly scrolling numbers.

 

[dieselyoda]

DVOM-Digital/Volt/Ohm/Meter

You are testing this bike on the centre stand with the side stand up and getting the RID to show the fuel level, temp level and the gear indicator in Neutral?

If you think you have fuel but no spark, you are 1/3 on the way to figuring out what is wrong.

You need spark and fuel at the right time.

Start with pulling every fuse and looking at them and putting them back in. Pull every relay and put them back in.

Let's start with some basics. A no start on these bikes is pretty easy. Takes longer to pull the Tupperware than it does to diagnose a no-start.

 

[RTandGS]

Oh! Ha! Yes, I have a DVM. So what should I be getting in the DVM from the switches? How do I run those tests?

I will pull all fuses and relays and shoot with contact cleaner and reinstall.

 

[happy wanderer]

Oh! Ha! Yes, I have a DVM. So what should I be getting in the DVM from the switches? How do I run those tests?

I will pull all fuses and relays and shoot with contact cleaner and reinstall.

You should see 12VDC.
The kill switch will have 12V at the Grn/vio *(that's a green wire with a Violet stripe) when it's closed.
The sidestand switch will have 12V at the Grn/yel (yellow stripe) when it's closed.
These two are wired in series to the starter switch which will have 12V at the Blk/yel when it's closed.
Then the starter switch 12V goes to the starter relay which will in turn energize the starter solenoid but only if the clutch switch is closed.

I apologize for a mistake I made way back in the thread and I gave you an incorrect link for schematics which one really needs to understand what is going on. A basic knowledge of the bike's electrical system and ability to read schematics is helpful of course.

Doug Raymond did such a great job of simplifying these wonderful schematics, including the wire colours and lots of other stuff to make it easier. D

Download them here: https://tinyurl.com/ydan4onx

I'm really starting to think you have a flaky side stand switch and you would not be the first. It sees a lot of dirt and it gets neglected since it hides behind the left side foot peg panel. The wiring harness for it goes up the frame and the connector is zip tied to the left frame just below the side cover. You can just beep test it at the connector for continuity. Same goes for the clutch switch. Follow the wires from just under the clutch lever where the switch is up the handle bars to the connector and test it there.