2016 R1200RS No Spark, Finally Resolved! BAD DME!

[vwsandman]

Does the mothership know which dealer it was stated (misled you) that they tried to work the mothership?

I believe in the conversations with the second dealer that BMW is aware of the history and the work the first dealer did(didn't do)

 

[vwsandman]

Anything the first dealer bill you, demand a refund, take 'em to small claims court if necessary, for the time and grief they caused you. Then send a letter to BMW covering the whole issue, from beginning to end, and suggest they recoup any warranty billings that the first dealer received for their work. The first dealer needs to figure out how to get better. That's on them, not on you. Paying the $$$ price, will help kickstart them into action, IMHO.

I hear you, fortunately they "only" charged me $209 ( as I recall...) it was winter and while a pain in the arse for me....not worth any further effort in my opinion. I'm not going to name them. They are a dealership in the Chicago area and have only sold BMW motorcycles...... I expected more from them... they seem keen to sell not repair.

If others have better experiences and good results with them, I'm glad that was the case. I'm not going back there anymore, that is enough restitution for me. I don't think I align with their demographics anyway....

 

[jono]

Just spoke with the dealership. They are Moto Union in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. What can I say? Excellent service so far! The good news is that the new DME fixed the issue and the bike starts and runs as normal! Woooo Hoooo! BUT, something is going on with the DME and the mileage. They are working with BMW who will be going live online with the bike overnight to sort the issue and get the DME fully integrated into the motorcycle. They driveshaft has been changed per factory warranty. Hill Start control is ordered and will be installed as soon as the DME is fully sorted. That is a digital software license serial number/FSC code they enter in ISTA+ to install that option. They have over 6 hours back and forth with BMW testing, diagnosing and working hand in hand with BMW to resolve this issue. As he stated once again, it is clear that the first dealer did NONE of these things. I feel vindicated that all of my at home diagnosis lead me to the DME being bad. I am very glad I told the first dealer to stop and let me know when I could go pick the bike up. It is also clear that without direct Dealer support working with BMW that I was not going to be able to fix this myself. I admit that my dealership experiences have been less than stellar to date and I was not super happy with Moto Union during my S1000RR recalls and installing tires I purchased.......but, I am VERY happy with them now and feel that I can fully recommend and endorse them moving forward. I am pretty sure I have never done that before. What did it cost? I didn't dare ask....it will be less than a new motorcycle that much I can be sure of. I will update as soon as I hear back from the dealer!

Back in 2017 I had attempted to buy the Hill Start Control as an upgrade to my 2016 K1600GT. Although the parts department was willing to sell it to me, when service tried to install the license, it got rejected as the bike wasn't originally built with Hill Start Control. The answer from BMW at the time was that the item in the parts catalog was there to replace a previously existing license when a DME was changed, but not available as an add-on. It will be interesting to see if BMW has changed that policy and enabled optional installation.

 

[vwsandman]

Well, Update time.... Sigh. Apparently what happened when the dealer and BMW worked on the used DME I got from eBay to see if that was an option for us to use instead of new when they were doing the diagnosis, the Kombi (instrument cluster) adopted the mileage of the second DME which is substantially more than the mileage on my motorcycle. I have roughly 44K miles while the used DME had 108K!!!! Apparently, doing whatever process they were doing, the Kombi adopts the GREATER of the two mileages stored in the DME and the Kombi. Since the used DME had 108K, the Kombi does now. Since you can ONLY go UP, not down. the two options presented to me were to keep the 108K and code the new DME to that ( it is another ONE and DONE operation) OR I can purchase a new Kombi to code to the DME which has the correct mileage in it from my old DME. After the shock of this wore off and I began to make sense of this, and the fact that a new Kombi is $1,300 my cost, I began to get a bit bothered. Granted the service manager understands my feelings on this. I explained that I was not fond of paying them for an honest mistake made while fixing the original failure. The honest attempt to save me money by re-using the used DME would potentially result in me spending more money.....I sat down, caught my breath and asked nicely where we would be at if I had to purchase a new Kombi plus all of the other work being done. over $5K so far........I'm shaking as I type this out......The service manager said he would have to escalate this above his pay grade. I hope sanity rules the day and while I truly hate for them to have to EAT this mistake, I do not believe it is my responsibility to pay for items they damaged fixing the problem. I hope that they order a new Kombi and get the mileage to what it is and I can move on. I also mentioned that I was very concerned with the mileage not being the actual as this further reduces the resale value and could cause issues with the DMV and selling it later....

I will ask that the EWS module (keyless ignition) is not screwed up with this mileage issue as well.....

Sigh....the saga goes on......

 

[r0ckrat]

Since "das mothership" was 100% involved in the attempt to repair using used parts, das mothership should be on the hook for the kombi. IMHO. And I'd wager there's a legal precedent for it if you talked to a lawyer...

They would have been able to tell that the DME had high mileage before plugging the part in. They would have (should have) known that the higher mileage would be forced into the system. They most definitely should have warned you of that (the mileage change) before attempting it.

And yes, the "new" mileage reading is going to require some explanation to the DMV, will trigger a record in vehicle reports, and if not corrected should result in a letter certifying the actual mileage at the time of the change, and why the mileage changed, from das mothership. As well as resulting in a reduction in vehicle value for resale.

 

[omega man]

Well, Update time.... Sigh. Apparently what happened when the dealer and BMW worked on the used DME I got from eBay to see if that was an option for us to use instead of new when they were doing the diagnosis, the Kombi (instrument cluster) adopted the mileage of the second DME which is substantially more than the mileage on my motorcycle. I have roughly 44K miles while the used DME had 108K!!!! Apparently, doing whatever process they were doing, the Kombi adopts the GREATER of the two mileages stored in the DME and the Kombi. Since the used DME had 108K, the Kombi does now. Since you can ONLY go UP, not down. the two options presented to me were to keep the 108K and code the new DME to that ( it is another ONE and DONE operation) OR I can purchase a new Kombi to code to the DME which has the correct mileage in it from my old DME. After the shock of this wore off and I began to make sense of this, and the fact that a new Kombi is $1,300 my cost, I began to get a bit bothered. Granted the service manager understands my feelings on this. I explained that I was not fond of paying them for an honest mistake made while fixing the original failure. The honest attempt to save me money by re-using the used DME would potentially result in me spending more money.....I sat down, caught my breath and asked nicely where we would be at if I had to purchase a new Kombi plus all of the other work being done. over $5K so far........I'm shaking as I type this out......The service manager said he would have to escalate this above his pay grade. I hope sanity rules the day and while I truly hate for them to have to EAT this mistake, I do not believe it is my responsibility to pay for items they damaged fixing the problem. I hope that they order a new Kombi and get the mileage to what it is and I can move on. I also mentioned that I was very concerned with the mileage not being the actual as this further reduces the resale value and could cause issues with the DMV and selling it later....

I will ask that the EWS module (keyless ignition) is not screwed up with this mileage issue as well.....

Sigh....the saga goes on......

Kind of a bummer. You have enough documentation in this thread as to the goings on to “prove” to anyone down the road as to the mileage being off.
OM

 

[vwsandman]

Since "das mothership" was 100% involved in the attempt to repair using used parts, das mothership should be on the hook for the kombi. IMHO. And I'd wager there's a legal precedent for it if you talked to a lawyer...

My hope is that it does not require that level of push back....I'm sure someone, somewhere is knitting there hands over this knowing what it will cost to eat the mistake, but to think that the customer would have to......c'mon..... That would be especially $hitty.... see what happens....

 

[r0ckrat]

While I agree with you, I would prepare for the worst and consult with one to see if you DO have the ace backer.

Saves time if they argue. If they argue, you can drop the ace.

 

[vwsandman]

Kind of a bummer. You have enough documentation in this thread as to the goings on to “prove” to anyone down the road as to the mileage being off.
OM

yes, and every time I looked down at the instrument cluster and saw that number I would die a little inside....not going to happen.

 

[Scott9999]

It's amazing how many times people on BMW forums believe that the only way to make BMW Motorrad fulfill their obligations is to go to court. I guess the Germans really don't care about their customers. It's like water off the ducks back.

Seems like it, anyhow.

 

[vwsandman]

It's amazing how many times people on BMW forums believe that the only way to make BMW Motorrad fulfill their obligations is to go to court. I guess the Germans really don't care about their customers. It's like water off the ducks back.

Seems like it, anyhow.

My hope is that this is not required as I doubt I have the energy to go that route. I feel somewhat confident from what the service manager and I discussed that the opinion of the people at that level acknowledge that the mistake was made and they understand my feelings on it. Hopefully the facts of the case are enough to sway the upper management to pay for the mistake. I can't see how that would not be the case as it seems pretty clear what happened and that I had nothing to do with it other than to suggest that "Here is a second used DME for your team to play with, if it helps along with a complete wire motor wire harness" That was not an authorization to do what was done.

 

[LFarling]

I am not sure any mechanic would warranty a used part. They would charge your their labor and tell you "at your own risk." I do not mean that in a mean way, but in my 68 years of life and turning a wrench when I can, I think that will be the stance on the used part you supplied. And a lot of electronic parts are non returnable.

I am so sorry to read this as I was rooting for you. I mean all the work you did learning the software and doing the trouble shooting.

I know the mileage would bother me for sure. However at 5 grand I would need to think about how important that was. If the bike functions as normal that is.

I am sure your DOT will give you something for the mileage change, along with proof from BMW. It will only come up on resale and should be able to be explained. I mean at 40K the bike is great on mileage but at 80K it is not going to matter much on price.

Again, I hope the Dealer and BMW work with you on this. I am really rooting for you!

 

[motorhead1977]

@LFarling , I don't believe @vwsandman was asking for the used DME to be warrantied but rather than the dealership and/or "mothership" make whatever corrections/parts replacements are needed to reverse the huge jump in miles shown on the vehicle. His point is that they identify themselves as "experts" and he relied on them as such. They failed to inform him of what they either knew or should have known...that the used DME would overwrite the miles on his bike if the used DME had a higher miles count. They didn't and he has suffered damage. Pretty straight forward.

Now, if you're suggesting that the dealership/mothership has no duty to disclose to the owner of the bike that the operation they are agreeing to undertake (at his request) can (and as we know know assuredly will) result in a higher miles count on the bike based on the miles registered to the used part that is an entirely different kettle of fish.

 

[vwsandman]

Well, just received a text from the dealer. BMW will cover the cost of a New Instrument Cluster (Kombi) provided I pay for the install & programing time, Fair enough I say. I'm not going to get greedy and push things! The only caveat, and there always is, right? The 8 units shown in stock in the USA have been superseded by a new part number that now has to come from Germany in around three weeks. I can wait. They said since it is Germany, no real way to expedite, if it was in the USA, no problem. Hopefully it comes sooner than later. It is a bit of a win in that regard as mine has fogged up since new and was told it was the way I washed the bike? There is a repair kit which I believe addresses the instrument fogging issue, and perhaps this new part actually fixes the fogging issue? I hope so. An added bonus is even though I had a screen protector the originally one was scratched and not great looking. Maybe they will install a TFT? LOL, I wish!

Also, I am told that the Hill Start Control was successfully installed as well. All that should be left now is await new Kombi, install, code, ride home.... Phew! She will be like a new bike! I then will get to test out my new Rabaconda Street tire changer (looks like a real nice bit of kit, wayyy better than my junk Harbor Fright nightmare), I have two Dunlop RoadSmart tires to install (buy the rear, get the front free deal from MOA Rally a year, or more, ago?) and a Chigee AIO 5 lite install to finish and a new Wunderlich bar conversion kit to install before road trip to Sedona, AZ for my Son's destination wedding....tick tock Mr. Wick....

No lawyers needed so far too!

 

[omega man]

Great news!

FWIW-


In BMW terminology, "Kombi" refers to the instrument cluster, the dashboard display that shows important vehicle information like speed, RPM, and other gauges.

OM

 

[motorhead1977]

Excellent resolution @vwsandman !

 

[vwsandman]

Status Update: The dealership (Moto Union in Milwaukee) sent a text yesterday to confirm that the Kombi (instrument cluster) is shipping from Germany and expected on or around April 21st. I thanked them for the information and emphasized that if there was anything they can do to expedite the repair that it would be most appreciated. I have been assured that they will do everything they can to get it back to me in time for my road trip from Wisconsin to Sedona AZ for my Son's destination wedding on Cinco De Mayo! No better way to test a major electronics repair, two new tires, a chigee nav 5 replacement and some new handlebars than a big roadtrip right? I mean really, what could go wrong? I'm definitely bringing my Mr. Happy Puppet from Aerostich so he can remind me on the side of the road why this was such a great idea instead of flying with my wife and her Mom and Dad...

 

[vwsandman]

Status Update: Texted back and forth with the dealership around 4:30 yesterday afternoon. The new Kombi (instrument cluster) from Germany arrived about one hour before I texted them! Their goal is to get to this and complete it before the weekend. I sure hope so as I have a lot of things to do and bike prep before the journey to Sedona! I hope to have good news and a final resolution to report in a day or so. It has been a long journey to get to this point!

 

[vwsandman]

Status Update: More texts with the dealer today, New Kombi is installed and they will be setting the bike up for BMW Germany to remote in overnight and code the Kombi (Instrument cluster) to the correct mileage to match the DME (Engine ECU) and the EWS (Keyless Ride) so everything is happy again. Fingers crossed the operation tonight is a success and the bike is ready to pick up later in the day or Saturday. Got lots to do before the trip! FWIW, I am a nervous wreck! prep work for the trip, the trip, and then the wedding and then the trip back home (the long way via Utah) and all the stuff going on at work, plant expansion and new equipment....argh! I am sure it will be all ok, positive thoughts....positive thoughts...

 

[vwsandman]

Status Update: I sent a text late this afternoon and did not get a response from the dealer. So, not being able to contain myself anymore, I called them on my way home from work. Unfortunately, BMW is not able to restore the original mileage on the new Kombi. The remoted in last night at around 11pm and worked on it well into this morning. Then after the Dealer opened, they then worked with BMW on it for the rest of the day on and off to no avail. So I am stuck with the mileage in the DME.

The mileage now? 4 miles. It was 0, as in Zero miles. After the dealer test rode the bike it now has 4 miles. It's a NEW Motorcycle now! LOL. Actually this is all fully documented within BMW, and will be recorded in the owner's manual and signed by the dealership. It will follow the VIN number at any dealer forever that the mileage is what it reads now plus the 40K ish it was when it went to the dealer. This is far better to me then 108,000 some odd miles that got jammed in the Kombi from the used DME from eBay. As the Service Manager said, that was all done under the guidance of BMW, that is why I did not have to pay for the new Kombi. Not sure what all transpired with all of it, but it is what it is now. I now have a brand new, hopefully never to fog up again, instrument cluster, a brand new DME, A NEW driveshaft and it now has Hill Start Control added....I can totally live with this outcome! Still cheaper than a new one! I expected the work to cost over $5K. I was surprised to learn it was "ONLY" $3700. I go tomorrow with my wife to the dealer at 10am to be dropped off to ride her home! I have a few treats in store for the service techs to pick up on the way as I very much appreciate getting a resolution to this issue!

What a weight off my mind! I'll work on giving it some new shoes this weekend and finishing off the Chigee Wireless CarPlay unit, the Chigee 100W USB outlet that is also a way to jump start the battery if every needed and install the new Wunderlich handlebars.

So excited to pick it up! So excited to take the big trip!

Phew! What. A. Relief!

Oh yeah, one more thing:

MOTO UNION of Milwaukee, WI, THANK YOU!