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Mobil One Oil Filters for Camheads
- Thread starter 83869
- Start date
Ken F
IBA #44567
J
johnbaker
Guest
Kind of wondering,other than the price,what is special about the BMW filters and oil ?
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
My guess, the filters are well made and have several markups. The oil is formulated for BMW with generous additives for motorcycles by Spectrol and also has several markups.
sedanman
neanderssance man
But is it BETTER than everything else?
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
Spectro that is.
I think the oil is better in some additive ways but probably not needed.
It's hard to rate other filters, but I use about one or two a year on a bike. So an extra 7 bucks or whatever for the BMW one...
marcopolo
Active member
Exactly what I think every time I read one of these sorts of posts. Given that you can order any part online these days and have it delivered in no time, I don't quite get the convenience rationale either, but each to his own. If I had a bike that was still under warranty, I'd be using a BMW oil filter (in fact, I'm well out of warranty, but still use a BMW filter). Not so with oil, since BMW doesn't make oil, or any sort of lubricant.
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
They don't make filters either, but what they specify including oil and sell is probably a good choice...and an easy choice. If not the BMW oil, I would probably use Castrol, Spectro, or maybe that Amsoil motorcycle specified oil.
marcopolo
Active member
True re filters, and many other parts in our bikes, but BMW maintains them in its global inventory, with BMW part numbers etc. This is not the case with oil. Here, I'm talking BMW Motorrad Germany, not BMW U.S. I know they have BMW-branded oil, but that's just a U.S. thing. No such thing as BMW oil in Canada, or most other countries that I'm aware of. That's really what I meant. You're right too in saying that buying BMW-branded oil in the U.S. is an easy choice. Around here, the local dealer uses Spectro, as does the independent tech that services my bike. For things like FD fluid, it's Castrol.
lkchris
Active member
Same reason I didn't get a 'merikun motorcycle.
I do prefer Boeing over Airbus if that helps.
greggsnider
G Spot
If you need the filter wrench, talk to Max BMW or hit their web site. They sell their own branded wrench, and for less than half the cost of the $#@^ expensive BMW OEM unit.
OfficerImpersonator
Seattle-area Rounder
I don't know what your owners manual says, but the owners manual on my 2012 GSA says DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL for the first 12,000 miles of operation.
I use synthetic oil on my 2002 RTP because it's got over 78,000 miles on it. I'm fairly certain it's broken-in by now. But I'll use dinosaur oil on my '12 GSA for at least the first 12k miles - and likely for the first 24k.
I attended a "new owner's orientation" held in my dealer's service department, and they were adamant about not putting synthetic oil in new Hexhead engines.
I use synthetic oil on my 2002 RTP because it's got over 78,000 miles on it. I'm fairly certain it's broken-in by now. But I'll use dinosaur oil on my '12 GSA for at least the first 12k miles - and likely for the first 24k.
I attended a "new owner's orientation" held in my dealer's service department, and they were adamant about not putting synthetic oil in new Hexhead engines.
I ran a filter test lab early in my career and can't get all that excited about filters. Basically, they're a pretty simple device and are either made well enough or not.
There are a limited number of types and sources for the filter papers used, a handful of end cap designs, a few choices for gaskets and container types, a few anti-drainback designs, etc. Essentially they are very well understood commodity items that aren't hard to make.
All a filter need to do to be acceptable is pull out the abrasive particles (size and type) that find their way into oil and keep them trapped, while not plugging up and causing all the oil to through the bypass, if the filter has one, or reduce fluid flow if it doesn't. Labs measure both how much dirt a filter can hold at various conditions as well as measuring its efficiency at removing particles of various sizes and types in single and multiple passes. For pretty much any filter you buy the maker has a set of data curves showing these test results and in practice virtually everything you can find will do a perfectly OK job at dirt removal. Filters will never plug in normal use if changed at recommended intervals- the amount of dirt it takes is pretty large and way more than you can manage to get into motors not run in desert sand conditions constantly so is a complete non-issue for almost all users. Filters plug exponentially- meaning dirt has no appreciable effect on flow until the very end of filter dirt capacity which would be an insane number of miles on most street motors. Filters do differ a bit in efficiency at various sizes of dirt particles but the only particles that really matter are the relatively small number of larger abrasive ones that can hurt motor life. Both by mass and especially by number, they are only a small part of the dirt in a motor. Tiny stuff like microscopic suspended carbon bits of a few microns in size isn't of much concern except to the extent that it contributes to sludge and serves as a surrogate indicator of combustion acids getting into the oil- which is what will limit the life of an oil first in many circumstances (unless you get a lot of fuel or coolant in your oil or have a motor that is shredding itself.)
So what do I use? Whatever the machine's maker recommends. My BMW bikes use filters sold by BMW or by makers who specifically state their filter meets the BMW spec (as do the ones from BB, for example). No magic and no worries. One thing I wouldn't even consider is those stainless screens masquerading as oil filters- definitely not a good idea.
For oil on a broken in motor, generally I use any high quality brand made with PAO synthetic base stocks that has the proper additive and viscosity spec to meet engine maker requirements. BMWs stuff filled by Spectro is one such oil but there are plenty of others. But I've also got a current VW turbodiesel motor for which the only current approved oil is bottled specifically for VW to their spec number which is clearly stated on the bottles- I think because its intended to deal with the lower lubricity (less sulfur) of current clean diesel fuel. Got no intention of second guessing their engineers and using something else- if they went to the trouble to develop a specific oil, they had to have a good reason- oem guys don't throw away that kind of development money just to sell a few quarts of oil with their brand. The owners manual even has a clear statement that if one needs to top up oil that no more than 500 cc of another diesel engine oil is acceptable to add if VW spec oil is not available. No doubt the well known oil makers will market their own items that meet the latest VW spec soon enough but I carry a qt of the VW oil just in case (made by Castrol).
There are a limited number of types and sources for the filter papers used, a handful of end cap designs, a few choices for gaskets and container types, a few anti-drainback designs, etc. Essentially they are very well understood commodity items that aren't hard to make.
All a filter need to do to be acceptable is pull out the abrasive particles (size and type) that find their way into oil and keep them trapped, while not plugging up and causing all the oil to through the bypass, if the filter has one, or reduce fluid flow if it doesn't. Labs measure both how much dirt a filter can hold at various conditions as well as measuring its efficiency at removing particles of various sizes and types in single and multiple passes. For pretty much any filter you buy the maker has a set of data curves showing these test results and in practice virtually everything you can find will do a perfectly OK job at dirt removal. Filters will never plug in normal use if changed at recommended intervals- the amount of dirt it takes is pretty large and way more than you can manage to get into motors not run in desert sand conditions constantly so is a complete non-issue for almost all users. Filters plug exponentially- meaning dirt has no appreciable effect on flow until the very end of filter dirt capacity which would be an insane number of miles on most street motors. Filters do differ a bit in efficiency at various sizes of dirt particles but the only particles that really matter are the relatively small number of larger abrasive ones that can hurt motor life. Both by mass and especially by number, they are only a small part of the dirt in a motor. Tiny stuff like microscopic suspended carbon bits of a few microns in size isn't of much concern except to the extent that it contributes to sludge and serves as a surrogate indicator of combustion acids getting into the oil- which is what will limit the life of an oil first in many circumstances (unless you get a lot of fuel or coolant in your oil or have a motor that is shredding itself.)
So what do I use? Whatever the machine's maker recommends. My BMW bikes use filters sold by BMW or by makers who specifically state their filter meets the BMW spec (as do the ones from BB, for example). No magic and no worries. One thing I wouldn't even consider is those stainless screens masquerading as oil filters- definitely not a good idea.
For oil on a broken in motor, generally I use any high quality brand made with PAO synthetic base stocks that has the proper additive and viscosity spec to meet engine maker requirements. BMWs stuff filled by Spectro is one such oil but there are plenty of others. But I've also got a current VW turbodiesel motor for which the only current approved oil is bottled specifically for VW to their spec number which is clearly stated on the bottles- I think because its intended to deal with the lower lubricity (less sulfur) of current clean diesel fuel. Got no intention of second guessing their engineers and using something else- if they went to the trouble to develop a specific oil, they had to have a good reason- oem guys don't throw away that kind of development money just to sell a few quarts of oil with their brand. The owners manual even has a clear statement that if one needs to top up oil that no more than 500 cc of another diesel engine oil is acceptable to add if VW spec oil is not available. No doubt the well known oil makers will market their own items that meet the latest VW spec soon enough but I carry a qt of the VW oil just in case (made by Castrol).
DROOT153718
New member
Thank you racer 7. I have cut apart many filters and I agree.
Changing the oil and filter at regular intervals is the best thing to do. I think its far more important than what brand goes in as long as it meets OEM specs.
To the guy that does not put enough miles on his bike, change the oil and filter before you put the bike up for the winter. Acid and moisture build up in the oil and can be harmful when left sitting. The other option is start and warm up the bike completely once a month.
I change my oil too often....
R1100 RT 137,000 miles.
David
Changing the oil and filter at regular intervals is the best thing to do. I think its far more important than what brand goes in as long as it meets OEM specs.
To the guy that does not put enough miles on his bike, change the oil and filter before you put the bike up for the winter. Acid and moisture build up in the oil and can be harmful when left sitting. The other option is start and warm up the bike completely once a month.
I change my oil too often....
R1100 RT 137,000 miles.
David
classicvw
Active member
No, never re-use the same oil. You're supposed to change the oil before winter lay-up and after. The oil that's in the crankcase during the winter may have zero miles on it, but living where we do in the Northeast, we are subject to many freeze-thaw cycles. Each freeze-thaw can create a teaspoon of water to collect in the oil. Only running the motorcycle for an extended time at operating temperature - not staring it for 5 minutes every couple of weeks like some people do, that can do more damage than good- can boil off some water, but you can never be sure if it all (or any) disappears.
FWIW, simple storage (without frequent starts of a motor that never really comes to operating temp) doesn't have to be any kind of concern and water accumulation in oil or a fuel tank is easily kept to an insignificant value simply by preventing a lot of air exchange through the the crankcase or gas tank.
The same way that a full fuel tank won't accumulate water and rust its headspace (in the old days of real metal fuel tanks), the intake and major vents of a motor can be covered or plugged, limiting water vapor condensation by preventing or slowing the intro of new damp air that holds more water. Though I would also point out a fact well known to folks living in freezing climates- namely that cold air contains little water to condense anyway.
Combustion of course creates both water vapor and carbon dioxide from fuel being consumed and that water can become a significant issue if not removed eventually. The water can also become part of combustion related acids which will not get removed by heat- they need to be neutralized by the oil (see the base number spec for your lube).
The amount of water created by combustion is very large compared to what little is in air that might get into the crankcase and condense- folks in cold climates know about water tha drips out of cold tailpipes and the clouds of water vapor that occur when motors are started in the cold and have cold tail pipes- that eventually get hot enough that the combustion created water vapor stays invisible. All motors allow combustion gases into oil through leakage past rings, crankcase air vent/recirc systems, etc.
The same way that a full fuel tank won't accumulate water and rust its headspace (in the old days of real metal fuel tanks), the intake and major vents of a motor can be covered or plugged, limiting water vapor condensation by preventing or slowing the intro of new damp air that holds more water. Though I would also point out a fact well known to folks living in freezing climates- namely that cold air contains little water to condense anyway.
Combustion of course creates both water vapor and carbon dioxide from fuel being consumed and that water can become a significant issue if not removed eventually. The water can also become part of combustion related acids which will not get removed by heat- they need to be neutralized by the oil (see the base number spec for your lube).
The amount of water created by combustion is very large compared to what little is in air that might get into the crankcase and condense- folks in cold climates know about water tha drips out of cold tailpipes and the clouds of water vapor that occur when motors are started in the cold and have cold tail pipes- that eventually get hot enough that the combustion created water vapor stays invisible. All motors allow combustion gases into oil through leakage past rings, crankcase air vent/recirc systems, etc.
187132
RAINEY
This is absolutely correct in regards to the acid more so than the water. You should always start with fresh oil at the beginning of the season after setting all Winter. If you're really only going to change once a year then the 1st of the season it is. Oil is still cheap in these bikes whether you pay $4.99/qt or $12.00/qt so to change before storage and when bringing out really shouldn't be that big of a challenge.
