To paint or not to paint, that is ......

the question.

I have been restoring a 1976 R90S for about a year now. As with most projects it started out as a clean up and get it running effort but has turned into a frame up restoration.

I'd like some input on redoing the frame. I am leaning towards powder coating but not sure if I should do that or repaint.

Any ideas?

ExecDir said:

the question.

I have been restoring a 1976 R90S for about a year now. As with most projects it started out as a clean up and get it running effort but has turned into a frame up restoration.

I'd like some input on redoing the frame. I am leaning towards powder coating but not sure if I should do that or repaint.

Any ideas?

Click to expand...

I'm powdercoating the frame on my R100CS. It'll be more durable than paint, but should look right about the same as factory.

I'm going with a semi-gloss black, which is pretty close to factory original. I'm also going to get the centerstand, battery box, swingarm, subframe and a bunch of other litttle bits done at the same time.

I'm redoing my '74 R90 and the frame, subframe and some of the smaller parts will be powdercoated.

I powdercoated the frame of a K100 that I refurbished years ago (see my First Bike article from around a year ago). I went with powdercoat for the frame because it is much less micro-porous than conventional paint and should therefore be more resistant to the elements.
I think the colour was 'satin black' or something like that. In any event, it looked really great, much like stock frame-paint. I can't speak for long-term preformance as I only had the bike another year and a half or two years after that, but the powdercoat seemed to be holding up beautifully for that short time.
Of course I highly recommend asking around for recommendations when choosing a coating-shop. When I did the frame, I took it to a place out in an industrial-park that seemed very no-nonsense and appeared to do a lot of industrial work. Great results. But then the following year I took a small part to a shop that mainly did chrome, with powdercoat as a sideline, for the hot-rod and chopper crowds. The work wasn't nearly as good, with the coating applied unevenly to the point that in one spot it sort of ran during the baking.

There are naysayers who'd never use powdercoat for frames out of fear that it will chip easily, but I think that those fears are unfounded or possibly based on seeing shoddy work.

Well, I am very interested to see the replies and thoughts on this topic, since I am wrestling with the very same question for my '75 Daytona Orange R90S. I am leaning toward paint just to be "original", but no final decision yet.

Powder coating is more durable, and seals better than paint. The main disadvantage with powder coating is that if it does chip you can not do a spot repair on it like you can with paint- everything comes off and you have to redo the pc entirely.
fwiw- i'll be doing a frame up on a R69S, and will have the frame painted. I also chose to have the frame on my '78 R100S painted (Porsche Guard Red- is charp!) for the same reason- ease of repair for minor boo-boos.

So, please enlighten me. What is powder coating?

Paul_F said:

So, please enlighten me. What is powder coating?

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Powder Coating is electro-static painting.
After you sandblast your frame the powder coater will spray on a coating of powder paint, your frame will be electricly charged and the powder will adheer to the frame. It is then baked at about 500 degees F.
The paint is much harder than regular paint!

Darryl

I know I'm going to get jumped on for this but, unless you're doing a concourse restoration or your frame is a complete rust bucket, the simpler paint job you put on it the better. The original factory paint was quite good and, even after 25 to 40 years, doesn't need to be sandblasted off unless it's in really bad shape. For an "in service" restoration on my R75/6 I simply cleaned things up and spot sanded then (heaven forbid) used Rustoleum to spruce things up. Two years later it still looks fine and draws comments from folks. Also, most spots on a frame get hidden by lots of other parts anyway. Most vintage and classic bikes today don't get left out in the rain but are carefully maintained and stored indoors. A decent bit of care and simple painting will do the job and save hundreds of bucks. (Ok, you can start spitting the epithets at me now).

Little Egypt Airheads
1966 R50/2
1976 R75/6
1980 R100RT

"I have achieved my 70 years in the usual way: by sticking strictly to a scheme of life which would kill anyone else." Mark Twain

bikerfish1100 said:

Powder coating is more durable, and seals better than paint. The main disadvantage with powder coating is that if it does chip you can not do a spot repair on it like you can with paint- everything comes off and you have to redo the pc entirely.

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Yes, ease of repair is another reason I am leaning toward paint.

What is a good way to revitalize chrome, short of re-chroming?

I work as a tech specialist in an OEM shop that powder coats springs. Yes, powder coat is good stuff if done properly. But, so are most paints. If you don't properly prepare the steel, by sand blasting and then either phosphate treating or using a reactive primer, the powder coat won't be any better that any other paint. And the quality of the prep work varies widely by shop to shop.Powder coat has become a buzzword for modern technology, but most of the people that espouse its virutues lack the basic understanding of what it takes to get a durable finish.

If the goal is truly a "frame up restoration" the answer is an obvious one.
They weren't powdercoated from the factory.

If one wants to refurbish, redo, etc. in making it a durable daily rider, there's
camps arguing both for and against both sides of the paint / powdercoat issue.

While I've not seen a painted frame being a negative issue to a future purchaser,
a powdercoated frame can, both from a "correctness" issue,
and an "I don't like powdercoating" position of the next owner.

R90S's are commanding high enough $$ at resale to make this a concern to some.


Eddie

lbrackr756 said:

I know I'm going to get jumped on for this but, unless you're doing a concourse restoration or your frame is a complete rust bucket, the simpler paint job you put on it the better. The original factory paint was quite good and, even after 25 to 40 years, doesn't need to be sandblasted off unless it's in really bad shape. For an "in service" restoration on my R75/6 I simply cleaned things up and spot sanded then (heaven forbid) used Rustoleum to spruce things up. Two years later it still looks fine and draws comments from folks. Also, most spots on a frame get hidden by lots of other parts anyway. Most vintage and classic bikes today don't get left out in the rain but are carefully maintained and stored indoors. A decent bit of care and simple painting will do the job and save hundreds of bucks. (Ok, you can start spitting the epithets at me now).

Little Egypt Airheads
1966 R50/2
1976 R75/6
1980 R100RT

"I have achieved my 70 years in the usual way: by sticking strictly to a scheme of life which would kill anyone else." Mark Twain

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When using Rustoleum- any preference between spray or brush-on?

Thanks

I have a '77 Triumph on the bench. I had the frame powder coated and it looks nice. I had it done at about an 80% gloss which is a little more shine than orig. I know the powdercoat is tough, but what I have noticed is it does seem to get very fine scratches somewhat easy. They are very fine and not noticable unless one looks very close. It does appear they occur with barely the brush of dust with even a v.soft cloth.
I've used diff. paints, yes even rattle cans, before and never noticed this. Another note is most frames [even among diff. makes] have a somewhat flat finish, so if you are going for real orig. prob.needs to be on the flat side, but the little extra shine really looks nice if you are not worried about a "100 point" restoration.
I just painted some off-road bumpers for a jeep w/Eastwoods "Gloss Chassis Black" p/n 10000Z, and they turned out v.nice, but again a little more shine than orig. BMW frame would be. The instructions said can be used w/out primer[only on clean, bare metal], so thats what I did . We will see how it lasts.
I've also had good results with"Rust-oleum Appliance Epoxy", yes, in a rattle can.
rj

PostalJoe said:

When using Rustoleum- any preference between spray or brush-on?

Thanks

Click to expand...

I should have posed my question a little better. What I'd like to know is- if you are working on a part of the frame where it is not pactical to use spray paint, has anyone had good results using a liquid product like Rustoleum or POR-15, using a small brush. The idea of using a brush to repair paint on a vehicle seems a little dicey to me, and I don't want to end up with a repair that looks worse than the original condition.

Thanks-

paulfinney2 said:

What is a good way to revitalize chrome, short of re-chroming?

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You and the Rustoleum guy should go start a couple threads to find out, because you're just buried in here.

Clean up th chrome

paulfinney2 said:

What is a good way to revitalize chrome, short of re-chroming?

Click to expand...

I have had a lot of luck with brass brushes. Dremel/Sears sells a small rotary brass brush that removes rust on chrome very well. Also, for bigger jobs I have used the brass scrub pads that you buy at the grocery store for cleaning pots and pans.

Of course try the brush in an inconspicuous location first to test it.

Ray, a bike can only be original once. If the body panels are still carrying original paint, then a segmented touch-up would be the best course of action. Otherwise, I'd vote for powder coat. If you choose powder coat, take care to make sure all bolt holes and attachment points are plugged or masked.

My 2 cents...
I am always leaning towards painting, for the simple reason that you can touch things up. With Powder coating that is not possible and I have seen and heard that if it begins to peal, it will go from bad to worse very fast.
Now you do get what you pay for. I have seen some brush on work with the rostoleum that I thought was sprayed. This is of course a much cheaper alternative. Since you are re-doing a 90S, I would recommend painting the frame black by a local paint shop that will do the "smoke" job for the fairing, tank, side panels and fenders. So, there are 2 questions that you need to ask yourself:
1. How much money do you want to spend?
2. Will this be a daily rider, a show bike, how much will you ride it?
Know those two things should give you a good answer. Keep up posted with your decision....