Will future boxers become extinct in NA?

To address the other concern.. I think the attitude by BMW-Motorad in the US has changed on the "only" BMW dealerships... and perhaps people haven't been paying attention to what's really happening.

NJ used to have 4 dealerships. One was mixed brand - the other three were exclusive BMW.

One of the exclusive dealerships simply couldn't make it on BMWs - and went belly up - closes shop, folded their tent and left the market.

The other two formerly exclusive BMW dealerships are now multi-brand dealerships, and have significantly increased their dealerships - both in the number of bikes in stock and the size of the dealership. NJ no longer has a boutique/exclusive dealership - that's despite one of these dealerships being one of the national sales leaders for several years.

I think the boutique idea is now dead on BMW's table. Canada when through the same thing a few years ago (and then I believe the Canadian BMW general manager moved south for a while and has since moved on again..)

In a very recent visit to several dealers in Quebec Province - there were NO exclusive BMW dealers that I found. NADA. Zilch. And there were several multi-brand BMW dealerships within a reasonable distance of each other (especially considering the population base.)

I think that BMW now believes it has the bikes to compete head to head with other brands on performance, and their bikes are superior on features, suspension and comfort - they no longer shy away from comparisons. I think the 800 series bikes will bring a new - and younger - demographic to BMW, which is vital to their survival as a motorcycle company. The 800's also seem to appeal to many long-time "mature" BMW owners, I know at least 4-5 people who are planning on getting one as soon as they're available. BMW's will remain "pricey" - since BMW hasn't found that to be a detriment to selling their automobiles. They offer features no other bike offers and charge a premium for it. Not a bad marketing strategy IMHO - if it works.

I wouldn't fear for the boxer - BMW has BTDT and stopping making them didn't work. The boxer is the image of BMW motorcycles, so I think there will always be one made and available in the US. With better engine management systems, and the investment they made in the new engine, I don't see these fading away anytime that I'd still be riding.

I don't think the sky is falling - and have to admit - that BMW is bringing out models that might actually appeal to me for the first time in about 10 years.. I think that's a big step forwards for them.

ultracyclist said:

So, therefore, what would the new contemporary airhead look like in terms of displacement, horsepower, weight, etc?

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Exactly what they have in the showrooms today (including the new roadster.. these bikes are the "new contemporary" airhead - they just happen to make use of some additional cooling using oil. It's not realistic to think that BMW is ever bringing back the traditional "airhead" - the design was expensive to build, wouldn't meet any federal or Euro specifications for emissions or noise, and simply isn't what will sell. BMW isn't looking to capture the old-timer marketplace, they have it already. They're looking to do conquest sales to a younger population who might become customers for some time in the future. Us old coots only have so many more bikes to buy.. be silly making one just to make us happy, when we're still riding something with a Roundel anyway.

How would BMW position the new airhead vis' a vis' the new F800 series soon to be at a dealer near you?

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They won't - so it's not a concern. The 800 series is intended to bring NEW BLOOD to the customer base. A company can't survive long term when it's average customer base is aging as quickly as BMW-Motorads is. How many 20 year olds do you see at any BMW rally? Less than 1%? How many well past 60 year olds do you see? 25-50%? The handwriting is on the wall - and BMW was smart enough to read it. They have to appeal to a younger demographic if they're going to continue to sell motorcycles - the same problem the BMW-MOA is trying to address with the youth camps and the MOA Foundation.

Future Boxers

Picking up on the post from "Easy"

I think of the F800 as leaning more toward sport styling. I would like to see an airhead that is a cross between an R69s and an R75/5 with carbs, disk brakes, wide bars and a large windshield, etc. It should have more emphasis on torque than horsepower, run on regular and come with a sidecar that is practical enough to carry either the wife or supplies from the hardware store.

The design is quite possible and just as doable as the Ural.

Easy
Kerrville, Texas
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
Douglas Adams (1952-2001)

Will future boxers become extinct in NA? continued

It's great to see that the passion for the Boxer is still alive and kicking in NA. But after reading some of the threads, it appears that BMW NA and BMW Motorad have a different agenda for the BMW market in the US. The Boxer has been the cornerstone for their motorcycles. Whenever I think of a BMW motorcycle, the first picture that comes to my mind is an airhead from the mid 70's that a coworker of mine road to work. BMW has to know that if their parts and/or service become to inaccessable, it will drive even the the most loyal Boxer lover away from a new purchase or replacement of their aging machine.
The Boxer is an opposed twin, half brother to an Offenhauser, a racing opposed 4 and a winning design. They are the most mechanically balanced engines built. One side always balancing out the other.
Okay, back to BMW NA, at what point in time will the dealers only be in the big cities? If that happens, what if your traveling cross country and a mishap or mechanical part fails and service is unavailable (even with a shipped to you part, you can't fix it yourself)? Your stuck, trip over, time to ship her home and find yourself another way home. That's just wrong! Will BMW motorcycles go from 2% of BMW's market as mentioned in an early thread, to even less than that? I hope not.

(Boxer's never die, they just go to 'Boxer Heaven', where the curves never stop and the roads never end.)

r69

Picking up on Easy's post..

I was at the University of WI from '70-'74. Some of my friends had motorcycles-mostly Hondas and Kawa's, with a few brits thrown in.
I wish I had a dollar for everytime I heard "I really want an R69, but I can't afford it. They ride so smoothly."

Now that most of us can afford it, we cannot get it.



Maybe we should start a new movement with all the appropiate demonstrations (without the tear gas, thank you)called the "Bring back the R69!"

This has turned into an interesting thread with some well considered responses (kbasa, easy, eilenberger, et al) and some blathering rants (mine - but hey, I was just trying to kindle the conversational fire).

Recognizing the effort and $$$ BMW has put into developing the current boxer line I also anticipate that they'll continue to build them for a while - but not a looong while.

When the original Ks were introduced and the twins phased out, the boxer had been the only engine BMW aficionados had ever known (along with the half-boxer singles). It was too much too soon. Now, over 20 years later we're all accustomed to the fours, the triples, water cooling, and soon, the parallel twins. And I think we all recognize that the non boxer designs have their strong points. Add to that the fact that younger riders may not neccessarily conjure an image of a classic boxer when they hear the name "BMW" - they might be seeing F650s or K bikes.

My take: As long as the boxers continue to be strong sellers BMW will build them. But as soon as their sales start to taper off BMW will be happy to drop them, and by that point we might be ready to accept it as inevitable.

(I'll probably still be riding my R1100RT, sputtering away and arguing against the need to move into the nursing home)

How many single name, free standing auto sales agencies are left?

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In my observation, this is the way that some automotive brands are going- and guess what, it's the German ones. In the last few years, every Porsche, BMW, Audi, and yes, even VW dealer upon which I've laid my eyes has been just like BMW Motorrad- gotta be in it's own building, preferably it's own business. And except for VW, they seem to be selling better than ever. Mercedes hasn't gone that exclusive yet oddly enough, but how long could it take?

But I agree, this strategy seems doomed. And I agree that the Boxer will be with us for a while. So what if it's not the latest in technology- as long as it continues to deliver the right performance for the right price, it is viable.

Catman said:

The sad news is that North America may be reaching third world status with respect to the motorcycle industry. BMW, along with the Japanese big four, may be focusing on the potentially larger markets of the EU and Asia. This may also be a factor in why a number of really cool models are only sold elsewhere and are not even available in the US.

It's obvious what sells in America: large displacement, lumbering V-Twins with lots of chrome, fringe, and conchos. Oh yeah, with a little image and mystique thrown in just to justify the outrageous prices.

Could it be that from the perspective of the major maufacturers, sales in North America just aren't that significant anymore?

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Don't agree. The Japanese sell more than "large displacement, lumbering V-Twins with lots of chrome, fringe, and conchos" in America. You must have them confused with HD.


They sell a complete range of bikes from small dirt bikes, dirt bikes, sports bikes, dual purpose bikes, cruisers, tourers, sport tourers etc.

And they seem to be making a pot full of money for many, many dealers.

The problem with BMW dealers is that BMW sells less than 2% of all bikes sold in the US. Their piece of the pie is just too small to support mega-million dollar sales outlets.

Now someplace like GrassRoots south of St. Louis can make it because their overhead is pretty low. And, they are great people to deal with. Herb and Reno understand customer service.

picking up from the veg

Yes, you are right. In Milwaukee the same family owns freestanding dealerships to all the German cars. Mostly concentrated in the N. E. burbs. Therefore one business has several makes under one umbrella but at different locations.

My point was was that it is hard for one business to have only one make at one site. I did not articulate that very well.

My fault.

Oooops.

"
I think many of us forget that BMWs have always been expensive motorcycles. When a Honda VFR was $4000, a K75 was $7000. In 1998, I bought my VFR and paid $8200 for it, brand new. An R11S, the most comparable to the VFR, was nearly $6K more expensive. Go back to the early 70s and the pricing was about the same, when compared to the Japanese. In 1980, my dad was able to sell his 1977 R75/7 for almost exactly what he spent on his brand new GS1000G down at the Suzuki store."

True... Hence the 2%.

Having owned a few airheads, there was a greater need to have dealerships all over the place, for maintenace. While they didn't break as often as English bikes - they did break (remember points?).

I think BMW (as well as carmakers) are moving toward a maintenance "freer" vehicle. Less dealerships mean less marketing points. Living in CA, their are BMW dealers all over the place. The motos could be served within that distribution network.

However I really don't know about the rest of the BMW car dealership network in the US. Are BMW car dealerships all over in the mid west?

The motorcycles will be around as long as they can be profitable and as long as BMW is controlled by the Quandt family.

As far as the dealerships go, it's not that unusual for there to be cyclical shakeups with the dealer network. Every time there is a change in management or corporate culture the new bosses try to tinker with things that they think they know about. My other quirkly vehicle, SAAB, has seen the same thing about 2 times in the past 10 or 12 years.

boxerhead said:

The Boxer is an opposed twin, half brother to an Offenhauser, a racing opposed 4 and a winning design.

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Much as I admire the boxer configuration (having enjoyed 3 BMWs and 3 GoldWings), the Offy was an inline 4, not an opposed 4.

Tom

TomfromMD said:

Much as I admire the boxer configuration (having enjoyed 3 BMWs and 3 GoldWings), the Offy was an inline 4, not an opposed 4.

Tom

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the boxers in these cars weren't slouches either

boxerhead said:

I applaud MOA for their continued support of issues relating to BMW NA and the loss of BMW dealerships in North America, in the 'rider to rider' section of the ON. Can anyone explain to me why BMW wants to drive BMW NA out of business, except in large cities where the money is? Will my next purchase of a boxer, R1200RT, go the way of the Sabertooth, extinct in NA, but protected and thriving in Europe? I am at a loss. Maybe some infomation cannot be discussed in the ON that can be discussed here.

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Hmmm the boxer... it'll be around... it is a good dependable motor

Dealers... another story... during my 8 years living in Europe I noticed that all BMW motorcycle dealerships were attached to a car dealership so one supported the other. I have heard that BMW of Atlanta is similar so maybe it will move that way here.

Oh, no, (big groan...followed by nausea, chest pains, and fluttering pulse)

Picking up on the post from MEWAYBRIGHT...
If the local BMW car dealerships also have the rads, then we are cooked!

The local BMW car dealerships are tough to work with, they charge an arm and a leg for everything, they do not discount parts over the counter the way the local rad dealership does, and they will not negotiate price the way normal dealers do. Milwaukee market is captive, just big enough to support 2 bmw car dealers, but too small to give the big buying discounts like in other larger cities because the local dealers do not have the same buying power.
I have a client in the car business, and he is always talking about the "small Milwaukee Market".

If BMWNA forced people both to buy and get their rads serviced at the local BMW car dealership, then two things would happen: 1) the number of DIY'ers would increase a bit, and 2.) those who could not do their own wrenching, would trade their bikes to a different brand.

I love my oilhead, but I need a dealer for the work.

On the other hand, maybe I could just keep providing ManicMechanic dark beers, and we could work a deal that way!

If life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

torags said:

My read...because

My 04 doesn't run well (or as well as my 88 or 92 K75s) and it vibrates. We seem to laughingly accept these shortcomings because of loyalty.



my .02

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my 04 1150RT runs perfect. Yeah some vibs, but it runs great