Help Please: Unable to get into 1st gear.

[AnnapolisAirhead]

For some reason, I can't get my transmission into 1st gear anymore.

So, I figured the clutch cable was old and perhaps near the end of its useful life. Last night, I replaced the clutch cable, using Tom Cutter's cable install and adjustment instructions and all other gears work fine (smooth actually) and pull hard. Since he was a trained BMW tech in the day, his instructions have always provided sage advice. Downshifting hasn't been an issue either--which I'd heard was an indication that the splines may be bad.

After looking into the shifter linkage last night more, it seems like it can't actually move the small lever of the linkage far enough forward to engage 1st gear. Although, if I shift to second or highter, everything works as it should.

The only time if seems I can get it into 1st (sometimes) as I am rolling to a stop. This is a new issue and a puzzling one as I ride it almost daily to and from work without any issues. The only thing I did to the bike was replace the diode board, rotor, alternator brushes and voltage regulator--so, um...er...

Any ideas?

 

[R100RS]

When was the last time the splines were lubed? Check that the bolt holding the shift lever is tight.

That's all I got right now.

 

[20774]

The only thing I did to the bike was replace the diode board, rotor, alternator brushes and voltage regulator--so, um...er...

They always say go back to the last thing you were doing and recheck your work. It's obvious that one of the wires on the diode board has come loose...

Serially , The clutch cable's job is to move the lever enough to allow separation of the clutch bits so that the crankshaft is temporarily disconnected from the transmission so that you can shift with no load on the gears. You can shift without clutching if you match input/output speeds on the tranny gears...I've done it before on up-shifting.

What's happening that says it's not going into 1st? Is there grinding or the foot lever just won't move?

If the clutch is separating once the lever is pulled, there should be nothing to prevent going into gear unless there is still some drag on the clutch pieces (spline lube was mentioned) such that the tranny gears aren't meshing properly.

Not sure I have any other ideas...

 

[AnnapolisAirhead]

They always say go back to the last thing you were doing and recheck your work. It's obvious that one of the wires on the diode board has come loose...

I just knew that was the wrong wire to connect! Could also be my muffler bearings or too much antifreeze.

Serially , The clutch cable's job is to move the lever enough to allow separation of the clutch bits so that the crankshaft is temporarily disconnected from the transmission so that you can shift with no load on the gears. You can shift without clutching if you match input/output speeds on the tranny gears...I've done it before on up-shifting.

Ok, so how does it work when the bike is in neutral already and I am trying to get it into 1st gear? At that point, the clutch is already 'open' or is it closed and the actual gear just a neutered one, such that same 'dicsonnection' must happen to engage 1st gear?

What's happening that says it's not going into 1st? Is there grinding or the foot lever just won't move?

I haven't actually done this while running (at least since I put the new clutch cable on late, veerrrrry late last night) so no grinding. I did notice some grinding when riding it home the other night with the old cable--leading me to the conclusion I'd better install the new one. I did.

So, I sat on the garage floor, squeezing the clutch lever with one hand, and cycled through the gears at the foot lever with my other hand. All gears work fine except 1st. It's like the lever can't be pushed down enough---or more likely, maybe the clutch isn't opened enough?? But how could the other gear work?

If the clutch is separating once the lever is pulled, there should be nothing to prevent going into gear unless there is still some drag on the clutch pieces (spline lube was mentioned) such that the tranny gears aren't meshing properly.

Once it is in 1st gear, it pulls like it should. Plenty of torque, steady, etc. And I don't think the other gears are slipping either, so my assumption is that the clutch and transmission are fine (I know what happens when you ASSume... ). IF that is true, that would leave the spline lube like R100RS suggested or the mechanical adjustment as the issue, er, right?

When was the last time the splines were lubed? Check that the bolt holding the shift lever is tight.

That's all I got right now.

Last spline lube, uncertain and its on my list because I've just been reviving this bike from the PO and an 8year coma in a garage. But oddly, this just started happening when I got her back on the road from the new charging components. What are the symptoms of splines needing to be lubed? Hard to downshift into 3rd and 2nd gear I heard, but that works fine.

You are not talking about the adjustment bolt, right? You mean the actual linkage of the foot lever? That is a wee bit loose, and pushing down on it it jsut clips the engine mounting bolt (that also hold the muffler-to-header support). Ah maybe I'll just buy your RS....but this bike has lots o' life left.

 

[R100RS]

Ok, so how does it work when the bike is in neutral already and I am trying to get it into 1st gear? At that point, the clutch is already 'open' or is it closed and the actual gear just a neutered one, such that same 'dicsonnection' must happen to engage 1st gear?

When the gearbox is in neutral, the clutch is full engaged and the transmission (at least the input shaft) is spinning at the same speed as the engine. When in neutral, the gears in the transmission are positioned such that the output shaft is not directly connected to the input shaft. You still need to clutch to get into gear without making a mess.

I haven't actually done this while running (at least since I put the new clutch cable on late, veerrrrry late last night) so no grinding. I did notice some grinding when riding it home the other night with the old cable--leading me to the conclusion I'd better install the new one. I did.

To me, the grinding indicates that the clutch isn't fully releasing. The engine is still turning the transmission and you're trying to shift gears. I dunno why it wouldn't show up in other gears except that first has a lot more load on it (not sure if my terminology is correct there) and may be more noticeable? That would point to either a mis-adjusted clutch cable or a dry spline. Does the bike creep forward if it's running and in first gear with the clutch fully squeezed?

So, I sat on the garage floor, squeezing the clutch lever with one hand, and cycled through the gears at the foot lever with my other hand. All gears work fine except 1st. It's like the lever can't be pushed down enough---or more likely, maybe the clutch isn't opened enough?? But how could the other gear work?

That test really isn't going to tell you anything unless you (or someone else) are also turning the back wheel at the same time the clutch is in. There's no telling where the gears line up inside the transmission. If first gear doesn't mesh when 2-5 do, it probably just has to do with how/where the gears are on the shafts. Without turning the internal shafts, you are always going to have the same gears lined up and not lined up (not sure at all if that made sense). If you spin the rear wheel while it's in gear (and the clutch squeezed, otherwise you'll be working against the engine compression) and then try shifting through the gears, it is a more realistic test. By turning the rear wheel when it's in gear, that turns all the transmission internals so they are at a random place and you're more liekly to find the correct gear mesh.

Once it is in 1st gear, it pulls like it should. Plenty of torque, steady, etc. And I don't think the other gears are slipping either, so my assumption is that the clutch and transmission are fine

It is completely possible and reasonable that the clutch is fully engaging (forming a strong connection and not slipping) yet not full releasing (thereby still turning the transmission when squeezed). In fact, I don't even think it's possible for a mis-adjusted clutch to exhibit both problems at the same time.

IF that is true, that would leave the spline lube like R100RS suggested or the mechanical adjustment as the issue, er, right?

I'm still leaning that way, but there are plenty of people around here that know more than I do.

Last spline lube, uncertain and its on my list because I've just been reviving this bike from the PO and an 8year coma in a garage. But oddly, this just started happening when I got her back on the road from the new charging components. What are the symptoms of splines needing to be lubed? Hard to downshift into 3rd and 2nd gear I heard, but that works fine.

I'm not 100% sure since my splines have never exhibited any problems, but I've heard that any shifting stickiness can be the result of dry splines.

You are not talking about the adjustment bolt, right? You mean the actual linkage of the foot lever? That is a wee bit loose, and pushing down on it it jsut clips the engine mounting bolt (that also hold the muffler-to-header support).

You're correct, I'm refering to the bolt that holds the foot lever on. Just something easy to check that can create problems. Odd that the engine mounting bolt interferes with it, that sounds a bit wonky.

Ah maybe I'll just buy your RS....

Well, my wife, oops, I meant "I", would certainly appreciate that solution.

 

[jforgo]

What about

the locknut on the ass end of the transmission, which controls the position of the lever back there in relation to the shaft thru the transmission? is that loose / where it needs to be? Is the screw/pin thru the ears back there in place? are the ear holes worn? is the needle bearing back in there trashed? Etc?

Suggest you clean/check/service the entire throwout mechanism

Also, what about the cable routing? is the cable binding somewhere as you turn the bars?

 

[AnnapolisAirhead]

the locknut on the ass end of the transmission, which controls the position of the lever back there in relation to the shaft thru the transmission? is that loose / where it needs to be? Is the screw/pin thru the ears back there in place? are the ear holes worn? is the needle bearing back in there trashed? Etc?

The lock nut and adjustment pin are in good shape, and that's the second part of adjusting the new cable (first being the threaded nut at the handle bars according to the instructions I had).

Suggest you clean/check/service the entire throwout mechanism

Good suggestion, I haven't been through that part yet. Would it exhibit different behavior for other gears?

Also, what about the cable routing? is the cable binding somewhere as you turn the bars?

No binding, I triple checked that last night.

 

[AnnapolisAirhead]

Does the bike creep forward if it's running and in first gear with the clutch fully squeezed?

No, not at all. **Update: Actually, I have not tried that since the new cable installation--since I can't get it into first gear. I'll ride it tonight or tomorrow am, didn't want to chance a breakdown on the DC beltway riding to work today. I'm hoping I can get it into 1st gear, if so then that would point more to a cable adjustment than a bad clutch, or spline? Hmm...I have Molly, a spline lube DVD, Clymer's and just watched a guy do one at the last MD tech day. I just need one of those ground down swingarm sockets...and a little more courage.

That test really isn't going to tell you anything unless you (or someone else) are also turning the back wheel at the same time the clutch is in. ...snip...

It is completely possible and reasonable that the clutch is fully engaging (forming a strong connection and not slipping) yet not full releasing (thereby still turning the transmission when squeezed). In fact, I don't even think it's possible for a mis-adjusted clutch to exhibit both problems at the same time.

I'm still leaning that way, but there are plenty of people around here that know more than I do.

Yeah, lots to learn from the folks here, for sure.

Odd that the engine mounting bolt interferes with it, that sounds a bit wonky.

I think so too. So, I released the foot peg assembly to raise it so that I'd have more 'travel' to get into first gear, still nothing. So I put it back to where it was.

 

[jforgo]

re:

Good suggestion, I haven't been through that part yet. Would it exhibit different behavior for other gears?

Not sure if it would or not - if that rod is getting bent, or something is binding, could cause similar problenm as lack of spline lube. and i see you are doing that anyway.

But now for the really ugly question - how's the tranny fluid/drain plug magnet look?
if tranny needs to be pulled, well, with the spline lube job you are 3/4 there

 

[NEALART]

This thread talks about first gear problem and shifter bushing:

http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?t=17480&highlight=gear

 

[AnnapolisAirhead]

But now for the really ugly question - how's the tranny fluid/drain plug magnet look?
if tranny needs to be pulled, well, with the spline lube job you are 3/4 there

I hadn't considered draining the transmission fluid, since I just changed it 4 or 5 weeks back. That's a good tell tale sign, so I might as well try that first and check for critters, gobblin and well, metal <eeek> on the plug.

 

[AnnapolisAirhead]

This thread talks about first gear problem and shifter bushing:

http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?t=17480&highlight=gear

Interesting, in my earlier post I mentioned that sloppy shifter lever. I evern unbolted the foot peg (it is all attached) to change the position to allow for more travel in the shifter lever Didn't work, but I've been concerned about the sloppiness of the shifter lever.

I'll grab a bushing at Bob'$ BMW tomorrow and change the fluid too to check for serious damage.

Many, many thanks for the link. I did a search but didn't see that post, had better look closer next time.

 

[AnnapolisAirhead]

Resolved

I tightened up the shift lever and let the fine tune adjustment at the handle bar out. Seems I didn't have it adjusted out enough to fully release the clutch. Glad I didn't go too far and burn it up.

Shifting with 5 again. Thanks for everyone's help.