Clutch Lever won't Pull In/Compress

[back2maiden]

Hello All,
Hoping I can get some help here. Been working on my '17 R1200 GS. With very qualified help, we replaced the stator, which means we had to remove the engine and then the clutch. When removing the clutch plates I made sure they were zip tied in order.

Fast forward. Very qualified help had to return to adulting after getting the engine back in the bike. I was installing clutch plates. The first time, I messed up and over torqued the pressure plate and broke it. Likely the last time I will use a click torque. Many months later, got myself a Wera Safe Torque so I can't over torque it again. Put the clutch plates in correctly (remember, zip ties). Put the pressure plate on with seemingly no issues. Go to pull the clutch lever and it will not budge. There is some very minimal play but I can't pull it in.

1. I checked the clutch reservoir. It was fine, but I add a bit of clutch fluid (Magura/Royal Blood) anyway. It still will not pull in.
2. I checked the clutch cable, it is fine.
3. I remove the starter motor to check the slave cylinder. The outside looks fine. When I try to pull it out I get a little resistance. I can't pull it out all the way.
4. When I push the slave cylinder back in the thrust adapter gets pushed out a bit. When I push the thrust adapter in the slave cylinder get pushed out.

Can someone please tell me what I did wrong and how do I fix it? I have tried all sorts of Google-fu but keep coming up empty. I need to fix my baby so I can start practicing long rides to make my way to Tennessee this summer!

Thanks!

Nikki

 

[pauls1150]

Question back atcha: What clutch cable? If it's a 2017, doesn't that have the hydraulic clutch operation?
(If it's manual, maybe a severe kink in the cable, or one end is not anchored correctly?)
My first thought (WAG) is a blockage in the hydraulics - the hose, a fitting, or the slave cylinder.
Second idea: maybe one of the three pushrods (from the slave cyl. to the clutch basket (why do they call it a "coupling cap"?) is hung up, or has not properly engaged the center of the basket.
Third: wrong clutch basket used for replacement? The MAX fiche shows three of them: the "Gross" (Large) with 3 notches, the "Mittel" (Medium) with 2 notches, and the "Klein" (Small) with 1 notch.
(I don't know where these notches are; maybe on the center shaft hole? Nor do I know the sizing differences.)

More thoughts:
If it is a cabled clutch, did you loosen up the top (lever) adjustment before installing the new clutch pack?
New plates are thicker than used plates, so some freeplay is immediately lost.
By mechanical advantage, two inches up top only moves a couple of millimeters at the plates, so maybe you've started with no (or "negative") freeplay. That might account for your "pushback" too.
Dunno if or how this might apply to hydraulic clutches...

 

[back2maiden]

Question back atcha: What clutch cable? If it's a 2017, doesn't that have the hydraulic clutch operation?
(If it's manual, maybe a severe kink in the cable, or one end is not anchored correctly?)
My first thought (WAG) is a blockage in the hydraulics - the hose, a fitting, or the slave cylinder.
Second idea: maybe one of the three pushrods (from the slave cyl. to the clutch basket (why do they call it a "coupling cap"?) is hung up, or has not properly engaged the center of the basket.
Third: wrong clutch basket used for replacement? The MAX fiche shows three of them: the "Gross" (Large) with 3 notches, the "Mittel" (Medium) with 2 notches, and the "Klein" (Small) with 1 notch.
(I don't know where these notches are; maybe on the center shaft hole? Nor do I know the sizing differences.)

More thoughts:
If it is a cabled clutch, did you loosen up the top (lever) adjustment before installing the new clutch pack?
New plates are thicker than used plates, so some freeplay is immediately lost.
By mechanical advantage, two inches up top only moves a couple of millimeters at the plates, so maybe you've started with no (or "negative") freeplay. That might account for your "pushback" too.
Dunno if or how this might apply to hydraulic clutches...

Thank you for your thoughts!! All help is greatly valued and appreciated. As frustrating this process may be, I am learning so much about my bike.

Sorry for the late response....life be lifing and I had to return to adulting for a bit.

So I found one of the issues! The partial culprit was the last thin dimpled plate. When the manual says put the last three plates on the pressure plate, they actually mean it. Technically you only need to do the last two. Why? Because the inside diameter of the thin dimple plate is so large that if placed with the rest of the plates it sits low. As a result the bottom of the pressure plate will go all the way in but the top will stick out by a few noticeable millimeters. To resolve this the thin dimple plate needs to be kept on the pressure plate along with the last friction plate that needs to be offset. I will admit, keeping the thin dimpled plate on the pressure plate and then getting the springs and bolts in without it moving was not easy and took me a few frustrating tries.

Question back atcha: What clutch cable? If it's a 2017, doesn't that have the hydraulic clutch operation? Yes it does!

Second idea: maybe one of the three pushrods (from the slave cyl. to the clutch basket (why do they call it a "coupling cap"?) is hung up, or has not properly engaged the center of the basket. How can I tell if this is the issue? I was able to push back and forth from the slave cylinder to the thrust adapter coming out of the clutch basket. Pushing one, pushed the other out and vice versa, when the clutch plates were not in properly, as above. But, once i corrected the clutch plates and got the pressure plate on correctly, I can't get the slave cylinder to go in all the way. I can get the clutch lever to pull in/compress almost half way, but then it gets impossible to pull all the way in.

Third: wrong clutch basket used for replacement? The MAX fiche shows three of them: the "Gross" (Large) with 3 notches, the "Mittel" (Medium) with 2 notches, and the "Klein" (Small) with 1 notch. Thankfully I did not replace the clutch basket. I reinstalled the original clutch basket. The only part that was new is the pressure plate since I broke the first one.

New plates are thicker than used plates, so some freeplay is immediately lost. All the plates are original plates. I know, good time to replace them with the bike all broken down but budget limitations came into play because someone bought a 310 to ride while the 1200 is getting fixed.

So now, my problem is clutch lever now moves, but only pulls in/compresses half way and I can't get the slave cylinder to go back in all the way. I would say it hangs out by about 1/2" (half inch).

 

[motorhead1977]

IDK if it's possible like on cars but do you need to bleed the slave cylinder?

 

[pauls1150]

Yes, there is a bleeder screw on the top of the slave cyl to do this. But if there is air in the line, I'd have to think that the lever would pull in more easily than "typical".
But another thought along that line (pun intended, sort of) - If there is air in the line... air does not compress very well (I thinks wrong), so would that cause the inability to seat the slave cylinder?
b2m - Life is good, but sometimes I get fed up with adulting!

 

[PGlaves]

Yes, there is a bleeder screw on the top of the slave cyl to do this. But if there is air in the line, I'd have to think that the lever would pull in more easily than "typical".
But another thought along that line (pun intended, sort of) - If there is air in the line... air does not compress very well (I thinks), so would that cause the inability to seat the slave cylinder?
b2m - Life is good, but sometimes I get fed up with adulting!

Compared to hydraulic fluid air is easily compressed.

 

[pauls1150]

Yeah, I got messed up there... especially considering I have a compressor in the garage! Kick me (again).
Maybe la maiden has too much fluid in the system?

 

[jbinaz]

After I installed the Rekluse clutch in my GS I had the same problem - the lever would not pull in. I assumed it was because of tightening down on the thicker plates (just like when installing new pads and rotors in a vehicle). Fluid level was high. So as I recall, I removed the clutch reservoir cover, covered it with a rag and slowly pumped the lever, to reset the master cylinder piston. May have removed some fluid too. I did not have to bleed it at the slave cylinder, for sure, because it's really hard to get to. Sorry for vague details, been a few years and no longer have the bike.