Front Tire Wear Impacting Steering

[smswy]

I did go through several pages of the search on this, then stopped.
I share a photo and my sketch of the impression of the tire cross-section.
I did own an F850 GSA and now own an R1250 GS, an R1250 R and an R nineT Scrambler. Although only back into bikes 2.5 years ago after several decades away, I have now ridden close to 60k miles. But only experiencing the subject line issue of the R with Michelin tires.

2023 R1250R with Michelin Road 5 GT Tires. Currently around 16k miles on the tires and not yet to wear bar, but getting close. I do monitor TPM/TFT and although my pencil pressure gauge, versus my Dewalt portable air compressor, versus the bike TPM all read different by a couple psi, I tend to keep the tire pressure within +/- 1 psi based on TPM/TFT.

You can see the photo of the tire. And my sketch, where I have shown a smooth cross-section profile and the dashed line angled profile. My eye view of the tire profile is more like the dashed line, although the drawing may be exaggerating the degree.

When the tire is cold and I just start to pull away from the house and am turning at a slow speed, the steering seems to want to take control from me and pull in and I have to kinda fight it back out. Has been doing so for quite some time. I wonder if this is a result of the transition from the flat crown to the flat side across the break in curvature? Once the tire warms up and I am riding at speed and going into curves I really don't feel anything.

I also have a Kawasaki KLX 300 that had very odd, notchy, steering when new. On the break in service the technician indicated he had to grease the steering head and that the head bolt was too tight from the factory. When I had the R1250 R in for the 12,000 mile service I asked them to check the steering and they claimed it was fine. I had asked the same at the 6,000 mi service but they did not test ride "because it was raining".

So, what do you think. The flat crown to flat side across the break in curvature is causing it to pull and tuck in harder?

 

[omega man]

I have a lot of tires on the ground and your picture makes me think under inflation.
16K on the tires? You may want to have them bronzed.
OM

 

[GTRider]

At 16k on those tires they don’t owe you a thing and are due for replacement. Most of what you are seeing is differing wear levels between the harder rubber compound at the center, and the softer compound that’s used on the outer thirds of the tire. That’s not unusual, and can sometimes be delayed by running the Michelins at a slightly higher pressure than you’re used to (advice I was given by a Michelin tire engineer). But on ANY sport-touring tire once you’ve hit 10k miles you’ve exceeded the intended design life. Buy new tires and motor on.

Best,
DeVern

 

[smswy]

I have a lot of tires on the ground and your picture makes me think under inflation.
16K on the tires? You may want to have them bronzed.
OM

If under inflated then the TPM is not correct. When I start riding at cold 67deg, the TPM usually shows between 35.5 and 36.5 PSI. And my truck tire pressure gauge I have usually shows about 38 psi as opposed to the spec 36 psi for cold. So I don’t know.

 

[smswy]

At 16k on those tires they don’t owe you a thing and are due for replacement. Most of what you are seeing is differing wear levels between the harder rubber compound at the center, and the softer compound that’s used on the outer thirds of the tire. That’s not unusual, and can sometimes be delayed by running the Michelins at a slightly higher pressure than you’re used to (advice I was given by a Michelin tire engineer). But on ANY sport-touring tire once you’ve hit 10k miles you’ve exceeded the intended design life. Buy new tires and motor on.

Best,
DeVern

Thanks for that advice. So you don’t have an opinion or know if that wear pattern is causing the front wheel to feel like it is pulling in on slow turns? And as I mentioned, it was doing it at 12,000 miles and even at 6,000 miles service.

 

[omega man]

If under inflated then the TPM is not correct. When I start riding at cold 67deg, the TPM usually shows between 35.5 and 36.5 PSI. And my truck tire pressure gauge I have usually shows about 38 psi as opposed to the spec 36 psi for cold. So I don’t know.

What I meant was adjust it to your own best spec. I have to do that on the F800GS to minimize “cupping”.
OM

 

[pauls1150]

A front tire "pulling in" on slow turns is under-inflated; if it "falls in" too easily, it's over-inflated.

If everybody was as anal as I am, they'd all buy several gauges of different types from different manufacturers, have their own compressor to use as a stable source, fill a tire, and compare all of the gauges' measurements - then throw away the outliers.

 

[kbasa]

It wants to "fall in to corners"? Might want to check your rear preload. If the rear is too low, it'll flop into corners. If the rear is too high, it'll feel twitchy.

And holy moly. 16K on one set of tires? I feel lucky if I get 8 out of a pair.

 

[pauls1150]

˄˄˄˄˄ Also true! I was just focusing on the front...

 

[zer0netgain]

You don’t just have a flat spot in the center, you have it on the 2/5 and 4/5 portion of the tread. I’d need more photos, but you are probably down to the tire wear indicators on the portions I just listed based on what I see. I always have to look at the 2/5 and 4/5 sections when judging wear on the front tire.

 

[omega man]

As we are going deep-

What Do Your Tire’s Wear Patterns Indicate?​

Posted May 1, 2024 in Tire Maintenance

Tire wear patterns can tell you a lot about the condition of your vehicle and if there are any issues that need attention. Here are some common tire wear patterns and what they might indicate:

1. Center Wear: If the center of your tire is wearing faster than the edges, it’s often a sign of over-inflation. Check your tire pressure and adjust accordingly. Over-inflation causes the center of the tire to carry most of the weight, leading to faster wear.
2. Edge Wear: Conversely, if the edges of your tires are wearing faster than the center, it’s usually a sign of under-inflation. Again, check your tire pressure and inflate to the recommended level. Under-inflation causes the edges to bear more weight, resulting in premature wear.
3. One-Sided Wear: If one side of the tire is wearing faster than the other, it could indicate an alignment issue. Misaligned wheels can cause uneven wear, affecting handling and fuel efficiency. Get your alignment checked and adjusted if necessary.
4. Cupping or Scalloped Wear: This type of wear appears as a series of dips or cups around the tire circumference. It’s often caused by worn-out suspension components or improper wheel balance. Have your suspension system inspected and ensure your wheels are properly balanced.
5. Feathering: Feathering occurs when the tread ribs on one side of the tire are smooth while the other side has sharp edges. It’s usually a sign of toe misalignment, where the tires are pointing slightly inward or outward. Correcting the alignment can prevent further damage and improve tire life.
6. Patchy Wear: Patchy wear refers to irregular wear patterns across the tire surface. It can be caused by a variety of factors, including aggressive driving, improper tire rotation, or suspension problems. Address the underlying cause and consider rotating your tires regularly to promote even wear.
7. Tread Wear Indicators: Most modern tires have tread wear indicators, small rubber bars located within the grooves of the tire tread. When these bars become level with the surrounding tread, it’s a sign that the tire has reached the end of its usable life and should be replaced.

What Do Your Tire's Wear Patterns Indicate? | Cincinnati, OH | Northgate Tire

Tire wear patterns can tell you a lot about the condition of your vehicle and if there are any issues that need attention. Here are some common tire wear patterns and what they might indicate: Center Wear: If the center of your tire is wearing faster than the edges, it’s often a sign of...

www.ngtire.com

OM

 

[smswy]

A front tire "pulling in" on slow turns is under-inflated; if it "falls in" too easily, it's over-inflated.

If everybody was as anal as I am, they'd all buy several gauges of different types from different manufacturers, have their own compressor to use as a stable source, fill a tire, and compare all of the gauges' measurements - then throw away the outliers.

Thanks, I am anal on most things, had just not gotten to there on this issue yet. It tends to fall or drop in, even though I used the expression “pull”. I have been assuming that once I start to turn a bit and the tire patch changes from the flat crown, to that angled side, that is where it occurs and causes the feeling. I think I need to go ahead and buy one of those $100 MotionPro water filled gauges and buy new tires.

 

[smswy]

It wants to "fall in to corners"? Might want to check your rear preload. If the rear is too low, it'll flop into corners. If the rear is too high, it'll feel twitchy.

And holy moly. 16K on one set of tires? I feel lucky if I get 8 out of a pair.

Thanks for insight. I got 21k on my first set of Dunlop Trailmax Mission 60/40 tires on my R1250 GS.

 

[kbasa]

Thanks, I am anal on most things, had just not gotten to there on this issue yet. It tends to fall or drop in, even though I used the expression “pull”. I have been assuming that once I start to turn a bit and the tire patch changes from the flat crown, to that angled side, that is where it occurs and causes the feeling. I think I need to go ahead and buy one of those $100 MotionPro water filled gauges and buy new tires.

I wouldn't worry too much. Between cold and hot temps, your tires are probably going to gain about 10% psi as temps rise. Get it close enough.

If you haven't spent any time adjusting your suspension, I'd start there. I've usually used "fall in" and "stand up" as ways to describe how it wants to turn in.

 

[r0ckrat]

I'm also going to add that the Road GT series of tire is major overkill for the R12**R, and that in itself will affect the handling and wear pattern.

 

[smswy]

I'm also going to add that the Road GT series of tire is major overkill for the R12**R, and that in itself will affect the handling and wear pattern.

Yes, I agree. I suppose BMW got a sweetheart deal to use those OEM. If I replace with Michelin Road 6 they will be the straight version, not GT.

 

[drneo66]

I ran a whole bunch of those GT's (both 4 and 5's) while competing seriously in the mileage contest for several years. Every front, no matter the inflation strategy, would cup like that. They sure would get decent milage though. I'd have to look at my notes, but I believe I pushed one if not several well in to the 20k range.

 

[dduelin]

As we are going deep-

What Do Your Tire’s Wear Patterns Indicate?​

Posted May 1, 2024 in Tire Maintenance

Tire wear patterns can tell you a lot about the condition of your vehicle and if there are any issues that need attention. Here are some common tire wear patterns and what they might indicate:

1. Center Wear: If the center of your tire is wearing faster than the edges, it’s often a sign of over-inflation. Check your tire pressure and adjust accordingly. Over-inflation causes the center of the tire to carry most of the weight, leading to faster wear.
2. Edge Wear: Conversely, if the edges of your tires are wearing faster than the center, it’s usually a sign of under-inflation. Again, check your tire pressure and inflate to the recommended level. Under-inflation causes the edges to bear more weight, resulting in premature wear.
3. One-Sided Wear: If one side of the tire is wearing faster than the other, it could indicate an alignment issue. Misaligned wheels can cause uneven wear, affecting handling and fuel efficiency. Get your alignment checked and adjusted if necessary.
4. Cupping or Scalloped Wear: This type of wear appears as a series of dips or cups around the tire circumference. It’s often caused by worn-out suspension components or improper wheel balance. Have your suspension system inspected and ensure your wheels are properly balanced.
5. Feathering: Feathering occurs when the tread ribs on one side of the tire are smooth while the other side has sharp edges. It’s usually a sign of toe misalignment, where the tires are pointing slightly inward or outward. Correcting the alignment can prevent further damage and improve tire life.
6. Patchy Wear: Patchy wear refers to irregular wear patterns across the tire surface. It can be caused by a variety of factors, including aggressive driving, improper tire rotation, or suspension problems. Address the underlying cause and consider rotating your tires regularly to promote even wear.
7. Tread Wear Indicators: Most modern tires have tread wear indicators, small rubber bars located within the grooves of the tire tread. When these bars become level with the surrounding tread, it’s a sign that the tire has reached the end of its usable life and should be replaced.

What Do Your Tire's Wear Patterns Indicate? | Cincinnati, OH | Northgate Tire

Tire wear patterns can tell you a lot about the condition of your vehicle and if there are any issues that need attention. Here are some common tire wear patterns and what they might indicate: Center Wear: If the center of your tire is wearing faster than the edges, it’s often a sign of...

www.ngtire.com

OM

Not sure that automobile tire wear guides have a lot to do motorcycle tire wear patterns. There are no toe and camber adjustments on a mono track vehicle but the broad guidelines about under and over inflation and suspension wear can apply.

To the original poster I agree you got your money's worth out of that tire. I have run Road 5 non GTs the last 72,000 miles on my R1200RT and that is pretty much how mine wear. I run R5s on my NC700X - same result. The squarish wear patterns from Michelin's choice of soft/ hard compounds are inevitable and while technically there is rubber left the tire has given its best. A new one makes life well again. I'm don't exactly doddle along and still get 12-13,000 miles out of R5s on the front of my RT.

 

[smswy]

Not sure that automobile tire wear guides have a lot to do motorcycle tire wear patterns. There are no toe and camber adjustments on a mono track vehicle but the broad guidelines about under and over inflation and suspension wear can apply.

To the original poster I agree you got your money's worth out of that tire. I have run Road 5 non GTs the last 72,000 miles on my R1200RT and that is pretty much how mine wear. I run R5s on my NC700X - same result. The squarish wear patterns from Michelin's choice of soft/ hard compounds are inevitable and while technically there is rubber left the tire has given its best. A new one makes life well again. I'm don't exactly doddle along and still get 12-13,000 miles out of R5s on the front of my RT.

Thanks for your data points.

 

[lee]

I always had to run 2 PSI extra on front Pilot Road front tires to lessen the uneven wear.
Same thing for my wife.
I finally gave up and switched to Dunlop Road Smart tires.
We don't have the strange front tire wear with the Dunlops.