Zddp

[tlangman4]

Hi All-

Hope this isn’t considered a silly question, but I’ll throw it out here anyway..

I am seriously considering a purchase of an ‘02 R1150RT ex-police model with approx 80k on the clock. Engine sounds decent and everything works at it should. Current owner states that both he and the previous owner used Chevron Supreme ASI SP 20w50 motor oil. Online info seems limited, but best I can tell is that the ZDDP for that oil appears to be 880, unless I misunderstood the conversion from percentages. My concern is that the bike may not have been using oil with enough zinc, at least since it was no longer used by law enforcement. I’ve always understood the minimum number for zinc should be 1200 for these types of engines.

Not trying to make this an oil thread by any means, but I am not familiar with Chevron Supreme as an oil for motorcycles, and concerned about engine wear since the bike does have 80k on it already. I’d appreciate feedback from members whether to be concerned or not.

 

[BC1100S]

I’d appreciate feedback from members whether to be concerned or not.

Don't be concerned.

Do a compression test and an oil pressure test to confirm.

 

[20774]

The March 2013 issue of the Owners News has an article on oils with analysis for levels of ZDDP as well as other characteristics. BTW...what does your owners manual say about the oil you should use...what is the API rating?

 

[pauls1150]

Being an '02 and an ex-police bike ... Have the clutch and the trans input splines ever been addressed?
You "might" be able to get a copy of the service history at your friendly dealer.

My understanding is that the ZDDP is especially import for the valve lifters, which you can't inspect without some disassembly. Is there a factory spec for this??? I've seen that Matt's recommendation is for 1000 ppm minimum, and Kurt's article references "Additional online research found at www.LNengineering.com suggests that optimal levels of zinc and phosphorus should be in the 1200–1500 ppm range. This is especially true for older engines that use the flat tappet or cam follower design."

 

[senseamidmadness]

I'm a minority on this forum in that I don't think you should be concerned at all about the use of high-zinc oils, or motorcycle-specific oils, in this bike.

High ZDDP being a necessity is a myth with a convoluted origin story. Its reduction has been offset in modern oils by other anti-wear additives, including molybdenum-based ones, which perform the same function. The newest API oil standards have to meet exactly the same anti-wear requirements as the old ones with more zinc did, including passing an absolutely brutal wear test in a V6 flat tappet engine. Look up the exact procedures under SAE Sequence IIIG if you're curious.

Also, our bikes have a separate transmission casing and a dry clutch, so there is no need for motorcycle-specific oil. Look around the Internet and you can find tons of examples of people running car oils in BMW boxers (dry-clutch ones of course) for decades with no issues. There's even a great thread on Bob Is The Oil Guy of a series of oil lab tests from a 2005 R1200GS running plain old Castrol GTX 20w-50, which is what I use most of the time.

As long as it got changed on time every time, that Chevron Supreme was just fine. You can, of course, test the compression and oil pressure to confirm like BC1100S said.

Paul is, however, right that you should be concerned about the clutch and transmission input splines. These police bikes tend to live hard lives with lots of clutch abuse. If it hasn't gotten an upgraded clutch disc with longer splines by now, it definitely needs one.

 

[jrogers]

Everyone has their own opinion these days.

 

[pglaves]

Everyone has their own opinion these days.

Here is what BMW said in 1998 with the introduction of SJ rated oils.

Bulletin Date: 11/25/98 Main Group: 11 For USA Only
Bulletin #2855 Engine

BMW Motorcycles
Service Bulletin

Service Bulletin: SJ Engine Oil - Not Approved

Specification:

BMW provides specific recommendations for fuel and lubricants in the
Service and Technical Booklet for each model motorcycle, or in the
Riders Manual on older model motorcycles. These recommendations are based
on specific knowledge of the engine requirements and thorough endurance
testing.

Recommendation:

The current recommendation is as follows:

Brand-name HD oil, API classification SF, SG or SH; CD or CE suffixes are
permissible; alternatively, brand-name HD oil, CCMC classification G4 or
G5; suffix PD2 is permissible.

Not Approved:

The API specification SJ is not approved for use in any BMW motorcycle.
This latest API classification does not guaranty the required levels of
wear protective additives such as Calcium, Magnesium, Zinc, etc. as with
most prior API specifications.

Customer Interaction:

We suggest that you council with your customers regarding the oils being
used in their motorcycle. Most oils found in commercial discount and
automotive supply stores are now API SJ classification, which means that
they should not be used.

Very truly yours,

[signed] [signed]
Frank Stevens Pat Raymond
After Sales Manager Service Organization
Motorcycle- Group

 

[jnrugg]

Sounds like I can just crush some vitamins and put them in the crankcase.

 

[rogerc60]

Just not one a day. That would probably be too much.

 

[pauls1150]

or for an older bike, maybe just a mineral supplement....

 

[m_stock10506]

Castrol Go 4T mineral oil is SG/SH rated. It’s fairly widely available. I use it in all three of my bikes, two Airheads and one Oilhead.

 

[pglaves]

Castrol Go 4T mineral oil is SG/SH rated. It’s fairly widely available. I use it in all three of my bikes, two Airheads and one Oilhead.

That is a good choice.

 

[senseamidmadness]

Sounds like I can just crush some vitamins and put them in the crankcase.

Pretty much.

These oil threads agonizing over specific numbers of additives are always a bit too far into the weeds because our bikes are tolerant of a wide range of oils, have a very good internal lubrication system, and oil in general is better than it was back in 1993.

You can run a decent range of viscosity from pretty much any brand that's got certifications, and as long as you change it on schedule your engine will be just fine.

 

[jammess]

Valvoline

I like Valvoline 20w50 motorcycle oil which contains 1120 ppm zinc and 830 ppm phosphorus. Use it in the R1100RSL and in the FJR. FeeJeR transmission shifts great with it and it's available everywhere. I buy at NAPA store.

 

[slowpokepete]

My mechanic likes Spectro MotorGuard 20W-50 for my '84 R80ST.

SPP

 

[BC1100S]

Congrats tlangman4, you started an oil thread.

 

[classicvw]

Being an '02 and an ex-police bike ... Have the clutch and the trans input splines ever been addressed?
You "might" be able to get a copy of the service history at your friendly dealer.

Agree. Very important. A few years ago I bought an ex- Napa California PD RT-P. It included its full service records from both the city and from A&S Cycles. Just prior to it being sold off, A&S did a clutch replacement and billed the city $4100. It only had 29,000 on it, having been assigned to a supervisor who, I'm guessing, spent some time at hqs and not out riding.

When I asked around at BMW NJ, I was told that motor officers that are coming from Harley police bikes to BMWs at first go through clutches because they're used to feathering it all the time.

 

[jnrugg]

Agree. Very important. A few years ago I bought an ex- Venice California PD RT-P. It included its full service records from both the city and from A&S Cycles. Just prior to it being sold off, A&S did a clutch replacement and billed the city $4100. It only had 29,000 on it, having been assigned to a supervisor who, I'm guessing, spent some time at hqs and not out riding.

When I asked around at BMW NJ, I was told that motor officers that are coming from Harley police bikes to BMWs at first go through clutches because they're used to feathering it all the time.

FYI... My '02 RT was not a PD bike, but at 18+k miles I was 3rd owner.
Spline and clutch done at around 28k miles by Max BMW.

 

[classicvw]

Congrats tlangman4, you started an oil thread.

In his defense, it was technically only supposed to be a zinc thread!

 

[slowpokepete]

Snuck in through the back door.

SPP