This is going to be unpopular

[belquar]

I just can't get over a bunch of MEMBERS crying the blues about spending 30-35 bucks when they ride up on a $10,000 plus machine. Blows my mind. Some people just like to complain about crap. If they do buy a day pass, then they will B&M about having to stand in line for something when they only have limited time to accomplish things.



An option could for the day pass would be to only allow day passes for 1 particular day and then the logistics only have to be satisfied on the one day, but I am sure there is someone out there who would then complain that it has to be Saturday and not Friday or vice versa.

Can't make everyone happy. Pretty sure that the accomplishment of pleasing 7000 or more people though definitely outweighs the 1%s.

 

[Sue]

I support the idea of day passes. I urge the BoD to look at setting up a discount pricing scheme for our senior members. The program should have a variety of metrics built into it that can help determine the impact of future pricing schemes.

And all I would ask is that whoever comes up with the idea also come up with a workable plan ...

One that would not put people in the beer garden and then back on their bikes
One that would not create a safety or a security issue for our attendees
One that would not increase the work load for the already over-burdened volunteers
One that would not hurt the bottom line of the rally, but rather increase it. (And show statistical data to back it up)

I would ask that those who think they have a great plan for ways to implement this concept to volunteer --- I mean REALLY volunteer --- at a national rally. Listen on the radio as activities and events unfold. Spend about 16 hours a day, for four days straight, with Security and gates. Until you have actually walked in these shoes, you cannot truly understand all of the ramifications of your proposal.

I am not saying it can't be done. I am just questioning WHY it needs to be done.

Once more - if I am paying $35 to be there (and work about 90 hours as a volunteer) - why should another club member be able to come in for a fraction of that cost?

If we would add up the value of all of the volunteer hours put into this rally, the cost to attend would be prohibitive. Out of respect for everyone, especially the volunteers, I would still vote to not allow day passes.

This is our club. It's $35 to get in. What's wrong with that?

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[mika]

Can't make everyone happy. Pretty sure that the accomplishment of pleasing 7000 or more people though definitely outweighs the 1%s.

As a member of the 7000+ I was very well served indeed.

 

[knary]

I just can't get over a bunch of MEMBERS crying the blues about spending 30-35 bucks when they ride up on a $10,000 plus machine. Blows my mind.

This isn't the reality for a huge portion of our membership. They bought a used bike. They ride a used bike. They don't have a fleet of bikes. They ride an old K worth $2500 that they bought for $5000. They ride a battered airhead that's gaining value but still cost them less than some people's yearly latte' habit. They might even ride an 1150GS - that they bought for $8500 and won't choose to afford a replacement for many years. And if they bought their bike new, it might well have been a huge leap for them to buy a dream they had to scrimp and save for.

$35 or similar is quite reasonable, IMO, for entry to the rally. I recently told someone that I thought the MOA should consider raising it a little ($40?) so that we might be able to do even more for those that attend.

But please don't dismiss the financial realities of many of our members.


-joke-
Perhaps we could consider a senior discount?
-/joke-

 

[Rod Sheridan]

And all I would ask is that whoever comes up with the idea also come up with a workable plan ...

One that would not put people in the beer garden and then back on their bikes
One that would not create a safety or a security issue for our attendees
One that would not increase the work load for the already over-burdened volunteers
One that would not hurt the bottom line of the rally, but rather increase it. (And show statistical data to back it up)

I would ask that those who think they have a great plan for ways to implement this concept to volunteer --- I mean REALLY volunteer --- at a national rally. Listen on the radio as activities and events unfold. Spend about 16 hours a day, for four days straight, with Security and gates. Until you have actually walked in these shoes, you cannot truly understand all of the ramifications of your proposal.

I am not saying it can't be done. I am just questioning WHY it needs to be done.

Once more - if I am paying $35 to be there (and work about 90 hours as a volunteer) - why should another club member be able to come in for a fraction of that cost?

If we would add up the value of all of the volunteer hours put into this rally, the cost to attend would be prohibitive. Out of respect for everyone, especially the volunteers, I would still vote to not allow day passes.

This is our club. It's $35 to get in. What's wrong with that?

Just my 2 cents worth.

Dear Sue, as someone who has volunteered at every national rally I have attended, I would like to take the time to thank every volunteer who gave so selflessly of their vacation time, to make our vacation more enjoyable.

In my opinion, the purpose of the club is to provide services for the members, not day passes for non members, or members who cannot attend for the entire rally.

Conversely, members should feel an obligation to help the club through volunteer labour, and any volunteer will tell you how rewarding the experience is.

All things must evolve, the rally is no different in that respect, however some principle rules must remain unchanged.

Having worked security at rallies, I cannot even begin to comprehend how the volunteers would inspect 7,000 arm bands, on people who are distributed all over the site, to determine if they have a day pass, and therefore have to leave at night.

I hear that the rally was terrific, I couldn't attend this year however there will be others........

Please pass our thanks on to the volunteers..............Regards, Rod.

 

[BOKRIJDER]

A thought

Hmmm, the beer garden issue, based on my scant knowledge of liquor laws in various states, I would assume a leniet eye is given for some MOA rallies. Wouldn't moving this venue from a technically closed door club venue to an open to the public venue seriously complicate the issue of the beer garden? I'm aware of states employing undercovers to work the crowd at bars and public functions and strictly enforcing laws and often with dire consequences for any and all infractions. How could an individual volunteer be burdened with responsibility of keeping the MOA out of court? I worked the garden last year and we were given a short lecture on the laws of Vermont and our responsibilities in following such but I believe operating a public event would raise the bar and burden of responsibility significantly.

Note -- I'm still in a small rant over an incident lately in New York State. I went for a beer run, but unfortunately had forgotten my photo ID. NO PHOTO ID - NO BEER !! to clerk " I'm 59 do I appear to be impersonating a minor? NO ID-NO BEER. I though this a fluke so went to a couple of other establishments, same deal. I had ID, just no photo document. Can you imagine if we had to enforce such a state policy?

Motard

 

[belquar]

This isn't the reality for a huge portion of our membership. They bought a used bike. They ride a used bike. They don't have a fleet of bikes. They ride an old K worth $2500 that they bought for $5000. They ride a battered airhead that's gaining value but still cost them less than some people's yearly latte' habit. They might even ride an 1150GS - that they bought for $8500 and won't choose to afford a replacement for many years. And if they bought their bike new, it might well have been a huge leap for them to buy a dream they had to scrimp and save for.

$35 or similar is quite reasonable, IMO, for entry to the rally. I recently told someone that I thought the MOA should consider raising it a little ($40?) so that we might be able to do even more for those that attend.

But please don't dismiss the financial realities of many of our members.


-joke-
Perhaps we could consider a senior discount?
-/joke-

I was just aiming for perspective. 35 bucks just isn't a large chunk of money. You have to prioritize your expenses. I don't make a lot of money. My wife and I do ok together and we have two kids. She knows I love my bike so she allows that to be a priority in our lives. I don't get to do much leisure riding, because I have many other priorities (see two kids). I know many folks by old used bikes to achieve the dream of motorcycling within their budget.

However...when it comes down to it....not many people ride a bike exclusively for their only method of transportation and do so because it is cheaper. For almost all of us it is a luxury. Some folks can afford more lavish luxuries than others.

sidebar

People come into my office all the time and want to know if they can post date a check, or they just complain about the cost. (Emergency Vet Clinic) They feel somewhat entitled to have their animal treated even if they can't pay because it has a heartbeat. They B&M about the cost yet they go outside and smoke a cigarette. (Smokes in Jersey run about 6 bucks a pack) If you can afford your cigarettes, then you can afford to take care of your pet otherwise you need to re-prioritize your budget. (BTW....I smoked for 13 years, no more.) I re-prioritized and decided I would rather ride a motorcycle. My motorcycle payment is what I was spending on cigarettes.

I was unable to attend this particular rally. My priorities were here at home this time. We had just had a baby and my wife returned to work in July. Just wasn't worth the trouble for me this year to ride halfway across the country to attend. I wish I could have. But....I had to re-evaluate the situation. When I learned about the rally location I was all set. Planned to go. Was going to ride there via Thunder Bay. But it wasn't in the stars for me.

I plan on going to WY. I would also pay someones admission for them if the only limiting factor for them was money. I am sure there are others who would do the same. But....I doubt that is the case for the one's who want a day pass option. Like I said before...if it wasn't this it would be something else.

Brian

 

[MADDOG]

Beer Garden Issues

There is no question that opening the rally to the public would raise our concerns regarding the legal age of drinking.

But we handle that with different colored wristbands for under 21 yo. The big deal in my estimation is policing the "day passes" and stopping people from participating who have not paid. { Both in seminars and all other activities}

It is interesting that STEVIE folded his tent without addressing how we were going to get enough volunteers, { or PAY for security, cutting into the revenue of ONLY 100 additional rally-goes, thus cutting into the profit margin} to man the gates at all of the seminars x3 days.

Also never really addressed my concerns in the beer garden. We have enough trouble staffing it on a few shifts as it is. Do YOU want to be there at 1AM to close it down? I"m there.

PS: Hi to the MARS group. Hope to get to Shiloh.

Jim Faucher
beer garden co-chair

 

[mika]

Sue we are not as far apart in our views as, at first blush, it may seem.

Are day passes doable? ÔÇô Yes

Should they be done? ÔÇô Not as described so far in this thread for the reasons you bring up and more.

Are there people who, as a club, we should consider offering discounts to? ÔÇô My intent was to suggest yes there is. The group I quickly identified was retired members working on a fix income. There may be others.

Here is a suggestion for the skeleton of a plan.

Develop criteria:
This may include things such as years of membership and past service as a volunteer for rallies or other national BMW MOA tasks.

Gate Keepers:
The roll of initial approval or gate keeper for recommending a discount may be a role for the Ambassadors. They are familiar with the membership and cross many levels of the organization.

Implementation:
Make it available only to pre-registrants. They would pre-register either on a form supplied by the Ambassador or with a coupon supplied by the Ambassador. Once they have been approved, applied and paid for attendance they would look like any other rally attendee. They would have the same arm bands, benefits and restrictions as anyone else.
This respects their dignity and eliminates the need to manage a special class of attendees.

Phase the idea in over a period of years on a trial basis.
In the planning for a rally budget a predetermined number of discounts. Once that has been reached the offer is over. This allows the organization to control to some extent the financial impact on a given rally. Allow for adjustments to this number based on region and location of a rally. The phase in period would be until rallies have cycled through the regions (is it six regions?). At the end of that, keep or drop the idea.


I totally agree with your comment ÔÇô ÔÇ£It's $35 to get in. What's wrong with that?ÔÇØ There is nothing wrong with that in the vast main stream. I am suggesting there may be portions of our membership that may warrant being including in another way of pricing.

 

[osbornk]

A motorcycle rally is an event much like a football, baseball or basketball game or a race. What answer would you get if you asked to pay only for a quarter, a half, an inning or for a hundred laps because you didn't have time to attend the entire event. If you let people pay for only a portion of an event, you can't accurately predict the revenue and you can't accurately plan for the number of attendees for a particular day.

If you have day passes, you must plan for a number of them on a particular day. What happens if the weather is bad and they don't show up? You have expended a great deal of time and money for the day passers and you don't get paid for it.

 

[sjbmw]

The day you let local day passes in the beer tent, is the day we turn volunteer security wrist band checkers into involuntary club bouncers.

Because all it would take is one local crowd to suck up 9-10 hours of cheap beer (vs. local tavern prices) and all the "arguments" for day passes go up in a (as in turned over tables) puff of smoke.

So who is volunteering for the first shift?

 

[BOKRIJDER]

The day you let local day passes in the beer tent, is the day we turn volunteer security wrist band checkers into involuntary club bouncers.

Because all it would take is one local crowd to suck up 9-10 hours of cheap beer (vs. local tavern prices) and all the "arguments" for day passes go up in a (as in turned over tables) puff of smoke.

So who is volunteering for the first shift?

Ah, the thought of bouncers at the beer tent makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!!
Now I feel at home, just like a being at the local watering hole.

Motard

 

[sjbmw]

Ah, the thought of bouncers at the beer tent makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!!
Now I feel at home, just like a being at the local watering hole.

Motard

LOL!!!

Given the average age of the membership, we may have to hire Mr. Myagi.
Wax on, wax off... Motardsan, show me paint the fence....

 

[belquar]

A motorcycle rally is an event much like a football, baseball or basketball game or a race. What answer would you get if you asked to pay only for a quarter, a half, an inning or for a hundred laps because you didn't have time to attend the entire event. If you let people pay for only a portion of an event, you can't accurately predict the revenue and you can't accurately plan for the number of attendees for a particular day.

If you have day passes, you must plan for a number of them on a particular day. What happens if the weather is bad and they don't show up? You have expended a great deal of time and money for the day passers and you don't get paid for it.

 

[belquar]

The day you let local day passes in the beer tent, is the day we turn volunteer security wrist band checkers into involuntary club bouncers.

Because all it would take is one local crowd to suck up 9-10 hours of cheap beer (vs. local tavern prices) and all the "arguments" for day passes go up in a (as in turned over tables) puff of smoke.

So who is volunteering for the first shift?

 

[BOKRIJDER]

LOL!!!

Given the average age of the membership, we may have to hire Mr. Myagi.
Wax on, wax off... Motardsan, show me paint the fence....

Hmm, I guess they don't build them as tough in Jersey. Never seen a fossil of an Eastern Shore Waterman herded out on the end of a nightstick, I assume?? We are not Waterman but don't paint us as dead.

Motard

 

[ahpd1992]

The record continues!

15 pages...I dont think Il ever set a record like this again. I would like to thank the little people who helped me along the way. I want to thank my mom and dad for "hooking up" even though they already had 3 kids. My wife, for putting up with this nonsense. Mostly Id like to thank the memebers of the MOA for takin a chance on an unknown

Tom

 

[Rinty]

this is going to be unpopular

Tom:

I haven't read all of the posts above, but in your first post you say you prefer not to camp, prefer not to sign a liability waiver, and are there basically to see the BMW specific vendors. We will assume that neither the seminars or the other events hold any interest for you. So it's costing you $70 plus the cost of travel to the site just to see the vendors. At the general motorcycle show which is held in your area every year, you can probably get in for under $25 for both of you, plus your cost of travelling to the show, but the vendors won't all be BMW specific.

So the choice you had to make at this year's National was whether to spend, roughly, $45 more than the annual show, plus the cost of travelling any extra distance between the show and the National site, in order to be able to see the specialty vendors. In making that choice you would have had to consider the cost of travelling to the BMW specific vendors who are of interest to you, at their retail sites throughout the country. The total cost of this travel would be significantly more than the cost of going to the National.

For me, considering those costs, and considering the convenience of having all these vendors in one place, paying $35 to go in would be a more than reasonable deal. Many of us don't like shopping, and here is an opportunity to shop for stuff that we are really interested in.

Rinty

 

[belquar]

15 pages...I dont think Il ever set a record like this again. I would like to thank the little people who helped me along the way. I want to thank my mom and dad for "hooking up" even though they already had 3 kids. My wife, for putting up with this nonsense. Mostly Id like to thank the memebers of the MOA for takin a chance on an unknown

Tom

 

[usafchickie]

I can't wait for Gillette! But first, Moto Guzzi in Money Creek, BMW in the Dells... at least there are a few to tide me over 'til Gillette.