Who makes the most reliable motorcycle?

[mika]

A decade ago the average age of U.S. buyers was increasing at 1+ years every year and had been doing so for more than a decade. Publications were publishing articles with calculations of when the motorcycle industry would age into extinction. At that time the average BMW buyer was 7 years older than the industry average.

At the same time BMW announced they would continue to service the touring market but the growth areas were in other market segments. BMW research considered the touring market as fully mature from a growth standpoint, aging and declining in numbers. The F and S lines were developed and expanded and now the G line is coming online. These were efforts to enter different segments.

I don’t have any current numbers for the U.S. as they don’t share them; however, Australia that share demographic trends with us over the same periods is seeing a shift. In a recent article from down under,BMW Motorrad Australia general manager Andreas Lundgren says the average age of their customers is now 46, down from 50 four years ago. As the sub 500cc line expands and the middle weight line is updated I would expect that trend to continue.

I completely agree with Paul that the MOA is not keeping up with BMW.

Price - Motorcycles aren’t cheap to buy. In any of the classes BMW is not the most expensive. In the case of the S, F and G line they have been competitive with the comparable UJM or European models.

Quality - Is subjective.

Reliability - With age what many forget is why we originally joined the MOA. BMWs broke, perhaps not like other bikes, but in their own way. We joined to learn from columnist like Paul, and others, how to fix them. We watched our mailboxes like hawks for ON to arrive. The first place you looked was the Flea Market for parts and what was selling. That is why you joined, admit it. You stayed because while we were figuring out how to keep them flying we met people we liked and hung around.

BMWs may have been better but were never perfect. Other brands caught up. If your glass is half full or empty will help you to decide if things are better or worse. I'm just glad people are still building motorcycles and BMW has a plan for the next 100 years.

If the only tool in your box is a hammer the world is a nail. If they only definition you have for a motorcycle has to have touring in it you, like the MOA, are missing a lot of other Roundel motorcycles and riders.

 

[greenwald]

Everyone here is making points about which level of interest BMW should have in it's known failures, but we are looking in the wrong spot. BMW is a company that makes profit for a living, and they are going to choose the path of least resistance towards making profits. Don't blame them, they are not alone. ALL companies basically perform this same way.

The bottom line here is that we should be looking at ourselves here! BMW isn't going to change their ways unless pressured to do so.....and we don't do that. The quote from earlier in the this thread said, "Eventually our customers will forget about it (failures).....well, that should be a slap in the face of us owners. This thinking goes in direct opposition to all that I've based my own morels on. I've had to learn from early on that when you ignore known issues in your life, that it always ends poorly. Why do we give a pass to this issue?

BMW has created a problem and I don't think they understand the depth of the issues they are facing moving forward. Someone earlier said something about the "age" of BMW owners. I was at a rally recently and there was about 40 riders. 3 of which were under the age 50.....and 2 of those 3 were 49....so basically 50 already. Can't argue with all the grey hair in the room. And it's all of these "older" owners are the only cross section of BMW owners that can turn this tide....the question is, will they? They are mostly long term riders who have liked BMW's for an extended period of time, and the other major factor here is that they have the money to absorb additional costs that come their way. But, if they continue to ignore all these issues and do not hold BMW to a higher standard, then the future of BMW motorcycles will be taking a big hit.

Unless the veteran owners that are leading the way for the rest of us, hold BMW to higher standards, then they are going to find less and less people with a sufficient financial base that can afford to own one....we've hit the tipping point here folks.

All very true. But 'brand loyalty' .............'blind brand loyalty' to a bygone era when the reliability of BMW's was legendary, has kept the motorcycle marquee alive and well for the past 20+ years, and is likely to keep that corporate reality around for another 20 unless owners demand better.

Whether or not that happens within the MOA - no one can say, but everyone can speculate.

 

[pglaves]

All very true. But 'brand loyalty' .............'blind brand loyalty' to a bygone era when the reliability of BMW's was legendary, has kept the motorcycle marquee alive and well for the past 20+ years, and is likely to keep that corporate reality around for another 20 unless owners demand better.

Whether or not that happens within the MOA - no one can say, but everyone can speculate.

True. But some of us have had a lot fewer problems that other folks have had. We have towed bikes home a few times. One shredded spline. One broken driveshaft. One bad HES bundle. That bike is now over 400K miles, and being ridden tomorrow, and soon all summer, around western US and Canada.

Here is a philisophical question, no answer really required: If a leaking final drive seal qualifies as a final drive failure why don't leaking Airhead crankshaft seals or leaking K bike O rings, or leaking pushrod tube seals qualify as engine failure? It is semantics, isn't it!

 

[BC1100S]

Unless the veteran owners that are leading the way for the rest of us, hold BMW to higher standards, then they are going to find less and less people with a sufficient financial base that can afford to own one....we've hit the tipping point here folks.

Well, no, we haven't. BMW continues to set sales records year after year. If that's indicative of an inferior product then BMW has hit upon a novel way of increasing sales.

I know a number of riders with 100,000+ miles on their 4 year old BMWs. For some reason or other they're totally happy with their decision to buy. And looking forward to their next BMW.

 

[AKsuited]

I considered the wethead GS a better bike than previous models, so I bought one. One reason is that less maintenance is required.

Harry

 

[daboo]

Wait till you go to sell that expensive BMW. I told my wife what one costs, and she freaked out. It costs more than her new car. The point is that people coming behind us don't have the money to buy our leftover BMWs when we give them up for a Miata. And for them, it is a choice of buying a car that can carry their family, or a motorcycle that can one person. You may see some high prices for used BMWs, but the actual price the bike is sold for, is probably much much less.

There's a lot of great things about the boxer model BMWs. Everything I'm seeing says that BMW didn't do anything to fix the final drive failures. They are just out there waiting for enough miles to fail. And like BobbyB26 wrote, we've hit the tipping point.

My concern isn't whether I can pay for a repair, but how much of an issue a repair might cause me stranded out in the middle of nowhere. There are other bikes on the market...and all of them have markedly better reliability than a BMW.

Why do former BMW owners on other forums come up with acronym definitions like "Bring More Wampum" and "Bring More Wallet" when referring to the BMW brand?

Chris

 

[BC1100S]

The point is that people coming behind us don't have the money to buy our leftover BMWs when we give them up for a Miata. And for them, it is a choice of buying a car that can carry their family, or a motorcycle that can one person. You may see some high prices for used BMWs, but the actual price the bike is sold for, is probably much much less.

Not sure what the market is in your neck of the woods but where I'm from there is no shortage of buyers for used BMWs. I could put mine up for sale tomorrow and get my asking price by the end of the week.

And I plan on never giving up a bike for a Miata.

 

[greenwald]

Wait till you go to sell that expensive BMW. I told my wife what one costs, and she freaked out. It costs more than her new car. The point is that people coming behind us don't have the money to buy our leftover BMWs when we give them up for a Miata. And for them, it is a choice of buying a car that can carry their family, or a motorcycle that can one person. You may see some high prices for used BMWs, but the actual price the bike is sold for, is probably much much less.

There's a lot of great things about the boxer model BMWs. Everything I'm seeing says that BMW didn't do anything to fix the final drive failures. They are just out there waiting for enough miles to fail. And like BobbyB26 wrote, we've hit the tipping point.

My concern isn't whether I can pay for a repair, but how much of an issue a repair might cause me stranded out in the middle of nowhere. There are other bikes on the market...and all of them have markedly better reliability than a BMW.

Why do former BMW owners on other forums come up with acronym definitions like "Bring More Wampum" and "Bring More Wallet" when referring to the BMW brand?

Chris

I hear 'ya.

In seven years, I sunk $7k into maintenance and repairs on an R1200RT, which was by no means a 'lemon.'

Granted, there's a robotic legion of Beemer owners out there that would say "So what? At least you're still riding a BMW!"

I've chatted with many a high-mile Beemer owner here at the track, and after you get past the astronomical mileage brag, you find out they've sunk the equivalent of a moderate annuity into 'routine' repairs. I can only hope they're not someone's financial planner.

 

[AKsuited]

In seven years, I sunk $7k into maintenance and repairs on an R1200RT, which was by no means a 'lemon.'

In twelve years, my '03 R1150 RT required nothing other than routine maintenance, most of which I did myself.

Harry

 

[pglaves]

In twelve years, my '03 R1150 RT required nothing other than routine maintenance, most of which I did myself.

Harry

Some folks are just naturally harder on bikes than other folks are.

 

[mika]

We do our own maintenance and have some coming up based on recommended mileage.

I agree with Kevin that two final drive failures on the same bike is outrageous. I have no idea how he rides but it still seems out of line.

$7,000 for seven years tells us nothing other than he had that much money to spend on his bikes. We have no idea of miles in that time or who did the work. For example, I can spoon a pair of tires on for $20 more than my dealer will charge me for one if I bring the wheel in. For another twenty an acquaintance will mount them with his machine and give me a beer to drink while I wait. I never bothered to find out how much it would cost to bring the Roadster in and have them do everything.

I joined the MOA because I anticipated my BMWs would break. I stayed for other reasons.

 

[pglaves]

I agree with Kevin that two final drive failures on the same bike is outrageous. I have no idea how he rides but it still seems out of line.

Yes indeed if it is two different drives or if the original repair was done perfectly. But if the original repair was not done properly then the second failure was just bound to happen.

 

[mika]

Yes indeed if it is two different drives or if the original repair was done perfectly. But if the original repair was not done properly then the second failure was just bound to happen.

I thought of the same questions when I was five miles down the road.

 

[179212]

Off topic

You have a 1977 R100/7 your buddy has 2017 R1200GS say you have many more breakdowns than he. Your on the way to the middle of nowhere and at last gas stop you both get a tank of crap gas and both bikes are dead in the middle of nowhere who than has the more reliable bike?

 

[pglaves]

You have a 1977 R100/7 your buddy has 2017 R1200GS say you have many more breakdowns than he. Your on the way to the middle of nowhere and at last gas stop you both get a tank of crap gas and both bikes are dead in the middle of nowhere who than has the more reliable bike?

Maybe not a lot of difference. Disconnect a hose and get the bad gas out. Send for a can of good gas, some Heet, and some carb/injector cleaner.

Or get out your Roadside assistance card and make a phone call. Works for either bike.

 

[daboo]

The GS will be loaded down with the kitchen sink, the R100 will just have a sleeping bag on the back. Much easier to push and not leave behind.

A Ural rider will probably pass by and offer to pick both of you up. You can decide amongst yourselves who gets the sidecar, and who sits pillion.

Chris

 

[daboo]

Maybe not a lot of difference. Disconnect a hose and get the bad gas out. Send for a can of good gas, some Heet, and some carb/injector cleaner.

Or get out your Roadside assistance card and make a phone call. Works for either bike.

Hmmm...who are you going to send for the can of good gas?

And if you're out in the middle of nowhere...do you have cell coverage??? (rider walks down road muttering "Can you hear me now???")

Chris

 

[pglaves]

Hmmm...who are you going to send for the can of good gas?

And if you're out in the middle of nowhere...do you have cell coverage??? (rider walks down road muttering "Can you hear me now???")

Chris

I live in the middle of nowhere without cell coverage. But cars do go by occasionally.

So, just for fun: no way to call; nobody comes by; walking distance is the same. So just exactly how is the antique a better option?

 

[179212]

Fun

I live in the middle of nowhere without cell coverage. But cars do go by occasionally.

So, just for fun: no way to call; nobody comes by; walking distance is the same. So just exactly how is the antique a better option?

Because with the old bike when you get the good gas it's a much easier fix. I had this problem on my R100 I video sewers so have tv truck go to many different locations to work when I move truck to different job I haul bike with me and than ride bike home. So I went to one town to pick up truck on r100 left bike went home picked up 1994 1100RS and off to next town worked for a couple of months than back to 1st town park truck uncover bike and it won't start take float bowel off gas looks like water take other off same. I put one bowel back on put clear plastic container under other bowel turned petcock to reserve ran out water and gas until it looked like just gas did same on other side dumped gas off top of mix back into gas can dumped water turned on gas bike started and I rode home about 125 miles if it had been the R1100 would have driven tv truck home to get other truck and trailer and make 250 mile round trip to get bike back

 

[blacque jacque shellacque]

Very interesting thread. BMW is one of the top ten most valuable brand names in the world. That ranking has little to do with product reliability. I would suggest most purchases are decided on how the product looks, and the image one want to exhibit. Lets face it. We are all in love with the BMW lifestyle.