What's wrong with this picture

[RTRyder]

Pretty obvious I think. Header pipes are Ztechnik stainless system for the R 1200 RT, the engine guards are also Ztechnik for the R 1200 RT. Apparently no one at Ztechnik has ever tried installing both of these products on the same cycle because it's pretty clear that there's no way the two can work together, at least not if you plan to have a working O2 sensor on the right side...

 

[DZIMBRIC]

It's not hard to fix if you have a tubing cutter and a tig welder. Just slice out the section making one cut just upstream of the hole for the sensor and the other cut about two inches on the other side of the guard. Flip the section of pipe around and weld it back in. However for what you have to pay, it should not require any engineering on the end users part. Oh and I may be a little picky since I am work ina nuke but that weld would not pass inspeciton at my site.

 

[RTRyder]

It's not hard to fix if you have a tubing cutter and a tig welder. Just slice out the section making one cut just upstream of the hole for the sensor and the other cut about two inches on the other side of the guard. Flip the section of pipe around and weld it back in. However for what you have to pay, it should not require any engineering on the end users part.

Agreed, and exactly what I intended to do after discussion of the problem with Ztechnik. They wouldn't take the guards back without charging a restocking fee, plus I'd have to pay shipping. Their solution? Put the stock header pipe back on and the engine guards will fit. OK, then what do I do with $400 worth of your stainless header pipes, make them into modern art for the garage??? Still, no matter which tubular guards I tried to use, I'd still have the same issue with any that mount to the same place, so I might as well re-engineer what I have

I don't have a TIG, I do have a MIG. Investigated what it would take to set it up for welding stainless steel, besides stainless wire I'd also need a tank of tri-mix gas, too much expense for a single job and I've never welded stainless before. Found a local welding shop that can do the job, suggested the cut, swap direction, weld approach, they came up with a better idea (?). I ordered an O2 sensor bung from Jegs tonight, welding shop is going to open a hole upstream of the existing bung, weld the new one in, then weld a plug in the old one and grind it down for clearance.

You would think a manufacturer would either know that the two things don't work together and state that clearly in the product description or be willing to make it right when their own parts don't fit, that isn't the case here.

 

[RTKOLENDA]

What Ztechnik Gaurds are these?

Pretty obvious I think. Header pipes are Ztechnik stainless system for the R 1200 RT, the engine guards are also Ztechnik for the R 1200 RT. Apparently no one at Ztechnik has ever tried installing both of these products on the same cycle because it's pretty clear that there's no way the two can work together, at least not if you plan to have a working O2 sensor on the right side...

What Ztechnik Gaurds are these, are these the brand new gaurds?

RTKolenda

 

[azgman]

Pretty poor customer service. Sounds like the only thing you can do is stop the future revenue stream to them.

 

[mpmarty]

That's why I deal online with my credit card. In a similar situation to yours I simply called my banker and had the charge reversed. After a week the vendor had a whole new attitude. They took back the original defective part and sent me one that was perfect and I then paid for it. Had they not gotten their act together they would have had to come out and pick up their crap part at their expense.

 

[RTRyder]

That's why I deal online with my credit card. In a similar situation to yours I simply called my banker and had the charge reversed. After a week the vendor had a whole new attitude. They took back the original defective part and sent me one that was perfect and I then paid for it. Had they not gotten their act together they would have had to come out and pick up their crap part at their expense.

I usually purchase online via CC also, however in this rare instance I ordered the engine guards through my favorite local dealer so I was stuck. I wasn't going to involve them in a fight with the manufacturer when they had nothing to do with the situation beyond ordering the part for me. The exhaust system I bought online direct from National Cycle, the Ztechnik distributor, and they are the folks that were less than helpful.

Not too long ago I reversed a charge on something I purchased online but hadn't received after nearly the 30 day limit for disputing a charge. Oddly, I received the merchandise 2 days later and then the day after that card number started getting hit with unauthorized charges which the CC company quickly picked up on and froze the account. The day I received the merchandise I reinstated the payment to the vendor, but apparently they decided to provide my CC number to some less than honest individuals for reversing the charge on them. I can't prove it, but I rarely use that CC and they are the only vendor that I charged anything to that account within a 4 week period, so it's fairly obvious what happened. CC company closed that account and re-issued a new account number, life goes on...

 

[RTRyder]

What Ztechnik Gaurds are these, are these the brand new gaurds?

RTKolenda

These... http://shop.ztechnik.com/cgi-bin/ztech/Z7101.html?search_model=bm-066

just don't try to use them with this... http://shop.ztechnik.com/cgi-bin/ztech/Z4003.html?search_model=bm-066

 

[RTKOLENDA]

These... http://shop.ztechnik.com/cgi-bin/ztech/Z7101.html?search_model=bm-066

just don't try to use them with this... http://shop.ztechnik.com/cgi-bin/ztech/Z4003.html?search_model=bm-066

Thanks for that update!

I guess I'll just have to make sure that I have an agreement for a refund, from any vendor, on any aftermarket exhaust system that may not fit with these Gaurds.

I'm thinking about getting a Remus Exhaust pipe and keeping the stock muffler. Save a little money. The only reason I want a dfifferent Exhaust header pipe is I want to send it out to be Hot-Jet Coated a Sterling Silver Coating. I hate the Crap color of the Rt's stock pipes, all boxers for that matter. I sent out a Remus SS Header for my 2006 GS to be done and it came out super! I received lot's of compliments.

I'm not worried about the engine cases cracking or getting damaged, especially in a tip over. If it's a main accident, it would most likely be totalled anyhow.

RTKolenda

 

[marchyman]

These... http://shop.ztechnik.com/cgi-bin/ztech/Z7101.html?search_model=bm-066

just don't try to use them with this... http://shop.ztechnik.com/cgi-bin/ztech/Z4003.html?search_model=bm-066

My guess, and it is only a guess, is those headers would not work with just about any crash bars as it places the O2 sensor where it will block access to the threaded hole in the case where many (most? all?) crash bars connect to. I wonder if you got a bad header or if they are all that way?

 

[RTKOLENDA]

My guess, and it is only a guess, is those headers would not work with just about any crash bars as it places the O2 sensor where it will block access to the threaded hole in the case where many (most? all?) crash bars connect to. I wonder if you got a bad header or if they are all that way?

I went out to the garage and got underneath my RT and looked real close and even the stock headers O2 sensors are very, very close. You would think that all the after market headers would have the O2 sensors in the exact same place as the stock ones or maybe even a 1/2" forward.

RTKolenda

 

[bob1100rtc]

Thanks for the heads up. I won't be buying any Ztechnik products for my RT. They should definately stand behind their products.

 

[RTRyder]

My guess, and it is only a guess, is those headers would not work with just about any crash bars as it places the O2 sensor where it will block access to the threaded hole in the case where many (most? all?) crash bars connect to. I wonder if you got a bad header or if they are all that way?

To make a long story short, I have another header pipe for the right side (currently at the welding shop, and yes, I had to pay for it), it has the O2 fitting in exactly the same spot, I'd have to say they're all like that. I was told the pipes are custom made in Italy, so whoever made the jig they're using didn't measure all that well, or did a really bad job translating English measure to Metric.

The fact that just about any set of guards will need to use that mount point is what prompted this adventure into re-engineering the pipe to move the sensor 1 inch further forward. That and I flat out refuse to pay the $40 or so dollars it would cost to return the Ztechnik engine guards, and I'd still have to fix the pipe to use any other vendor's part. I will say the Ztechnik stuff is for the most part well made, I've got a lot of it on the RT, which PO's me all the more for the amount of $ I've spent with them.

 

[RTRyder]

The fix...

Got the modified pipe back this morning and swapped it out as soon as I got home. Everything fits now, shouldn't have had to go through what I did, I'm just happy it's all together the way I want it...

 

[RTRyder]

Here it is installed, compare this to what it originally looked like in my first post...

 

[WEZUL]

Oooh, custom mount.

 

[RTKOLENDA]

Here it is installed, compare this to what it originally looked like in my first post...

Was the O2sensor and wire long enough, or did you have to lengthen it?

RTKolenda

 

[JTW105050]

Fairness is a 2-Way Street (from ZTechnik)

I've read all of the posts on this topic with an open mind. In order to avoid this type of confusion in the future, we will post a note on our website in the product description that the Z7101 Engine Guards will not fit on RT's with aftermarket headers, ZTechnik or otherwise. The ZTechik headers were designed long before the Engine Guards, and are no longer manufactured, so we will not revise the headers in stock to work with the Engine Guards. The mounting point in question is the only one available in that area, so we cannot modify the Engine Guard design.

That said, we agreed to take the Engine Guards back on several occasions when the buyer had aftermarket headers that would not allow the Guards to be installed.

 

[RTRyder]

I've read all of the posts on this topic with an open mind. In order to avoid this type of confusion in the future, we will post a note on our website in the product description that the Z7101 Engine Guards will not fit on RT's with aftermarket headers, ZTechnik or otherwise. The ZTechik headers were designed long before the Engine Guards, and are no longer manufactured, so we will not revise the headers in stock to work with the Engine Guards. The mounting point in question is the only one available in that area, so we cannot modify the Engine Guard design.

That said, we agreed to take the Engine Guards back on several occasions when the buyer had aftermarket headers that would not allow the Guards to be installed.

I really don't want to get into a P*****g contest over this, but this is precisely the way you wanted to resolve the matter, this is a direct quote from one of your emails...

"The issue is that you installed the guards on one side. We will take them back for inspection. If they can be returned to stock and sold as new, we will accept them with a $25 restock fee. If they have been marred, then we will not be able to provide a total refund."

"The other option would be to splice a set of stock headers into the ZTechnik headers after the O2 sensor. Stock headers for these bikes are available on beemerboneyard.com at very reasonable prices. "

So, how on earth would I have known they didn't fit, if I hadn't installed them???

I am not about to pay a fee to return something that quite obviously doesn't fit when both products in question are from the same manufacturer. If it had been someone else's headers, then yes, I would have been receptive to paying a re-stock since it would have been incumbent on me to make sure the parts were compatible. This was not my fault and there should have been no argument about taking them back, period, but that wasn't the way you approached it. I also wasn't going to start hacking pipes together on an $18,000 motorcycle as was suggested, that IMO is pretty lame product support.

This is my last post on this subject.

 

[sellis]

RTRyder, I agree completely with you, the problem was THEIRS, you should not have to pay restocking fee or anything else for that matter, they should have picked up the freight for THEIR lack of research in product development.

They only responded to this board after they were afraid their reputation had been damaged, and then tried to place the blame on you for not sending the units back without any of the details.

Pretty much knocks Z-tech off my list of places to do business with.

Steve