So much for the 'Klim Gear Protection Guarantee'

[akbeemer]

Do any other motorcycle apparel venders have a replacement warranty similar to Klim’s? I do not know of any. It seems to me that abandoning Klim, which means abandoning even a chance of getting damaged gear replaced, is cutting off one’s nose to spite the face. I resisted buying Klim gear for years because of their prices. I finally did buy a jacket, pants and helmet, and it is very high quality and performs as advertised. Too expensive? Well that’s a personal decision.

When it comes to their replacement policy, it appears they apply the published rules strictly. That is probably the smart way to go. If they get into making exceptions they would run the risk of legal actions when they deny a claim while allowing an exception in another instance in an arguably arbitrary manner.

 

[elementist]

Hard to say it's hurting me if the only outcome is I stop overpaying for gear.

If their replacement policy is nothing but marketing BS they will find any excuse to deny, like a typical insurance company, then they aren't actually providing value just the illusion of it.

I have found other gear as good as my klim gear for cheaper. I can't see any reason to spent any more on them especially now.

 

[bluehole]

Klim has found a clever way not to honor their warranty. Few riders, or motorists in general, are traveling at or below the speed limit. OM mentioned that Aerostich does not offer a warranty. However, they do offer repairs. Klim might want to adopt something similar. Refusing warranty claims because a customer was riding 5 mph over the speed limit, has a faulty brake light or turn signal, etc may be legally and technically correct, but it does not pass the smell test. As elementist said "...they aren't actually providing value just the illusion of it."

 

[omega man]

Klim has found a clever way not to honor their warranty. Few riders, or motorists in general, are traveling at or below the speed limit. OM mentioned that Aerostich does not offer a warranty. However, they do offer repairs. Klim might want to adopt something similar. Refusing warranty claims because a customer was riding 5 mph over the speed limit, has a faulty brake light or turn signal, etc may be legally and technically correct, but it does not pass the smell test. As elementist said "...they aren't actually providing value just the illusion of it."

I’m not sure how Klim, posting a written policy, creates an illusion.

I would like to see how well the Klim gear took the “get off”. Maybe the OP will post a picture of the garment damage?

OM

 

[elementist]

My klim pants did ok in my get off. Could have certainly done better, but that was partially due to size and weight loss on my end.

Was considering reaching out but read something about same size replacement and was going for a tech air gear setup to replace what I had on..

My icon gear did as well or better as my klim gear for 1/3 the price...

 

[kbasa]

I re-read the warranty and nowhere does it say: 'for an accident that occurred below the speed limit' or 'purely based on our judgement we will decide whether to honor this warranty'..

40 in a 35 is being considered the primary contributing factor. That will be covered by both “illegal” and potentially contributing to the incident.

What’d you think they were gonna say, given the very clear warranty policy?

You were hoping they’d let the speed thing slide and they didn’t, if I’m reading this right. They’ve complied with the obligation they expressed in the warranty.

Sorry, but they’re 100% within their expressed warranty. Despite your hope for a good will bit of coverage, they told you the warranty conditions and you don’t meet them.

 

[kbasa]

Hard to say it's hurting me if the only outcome is I stop overpaying for gear.

If their replacement policy is nothing but marketing BS they will find any excuse to deny, like a typical insurance company, then they aren't actually providing value just the illusion of it.

I have found other gear as good as my klim gear for cheaper. I can't see any reason to spent any more on them especially now.

Klim has found a clever way not to honor their warranty. Few riders, or motorists in general, are traveling at or below the speed limit. OM mentioned that Aerostich does not offer a warranty. However, they do offer repairs. Klim might want to adopt something similar. Refusing warranty claims because a customer was riding 5 mph over the speed limit, has a faulty brake light or turn signal, etc may be legally and technically correct, but it does not pass the smell test. As elementist said "...they aren't actually providing value just the illusion of it."

The warranty conditions are clearly spelled out.

He didn’t meet them, did he? Is this the company’s problem or is it someone hoping for an exception to the rule, not getting it and now being all butt hurt on a forum when he didn’t get special consideration he thinks he deserves?

 

[elementist]

Considering the margin of error for both speedometers, radar guns, as well as traffic accident analysis and reconstruction there is no evidence he was actually breaking the law, denying based on that difference is letter of law not spirit. Just an officer's assumption he was probably going a bit faster than posted, likely going off the usual pace of traffic.

They found what they needed in the report to deny the warranty and based on the description it was not a measured value posted to the report so again no evidence the law was broken.

We're not gonna agree here, so you can keep defending the company. I've worked with and for many companies that do more for their customers despite this exact type of situation. They can but they won't.

So I'll spend my money elsewhere. Spend yours how you see fit.

 

[powwow]

For the good or the bad of it, Klim has a specific set of rules regarding its warranty policy. Complaining about a police officers judgement without an interview of the police officer and related training is just hopeful thinking. Apparently 5mph over is still speeding where this happened. If there was a question of the speed, it should have been settled before a warranty claim was submitted.

Now to retailers warranty policy. The one I think of that was brutalized by many was the satisfaction policy of L.L. Bean. They put up with as much as they could and then got in line with a still generous policy because-

“People were going to garage sales and eBay, and buying very old and worn merchandise and returning it to stores for full credit,” Jay Baer, a marketing expert told CNBC’s “On The Money” in a recent interview.

Baer told people were then “taking those items and flipping them on eBay and garage sales and actually making a job out of this.”

From- https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/17/why....L. Bean,condition, even years after purchase.

It sounds like the OP was not hurt too badly and was pleased with the protection that the Klim gear provided.....Sounds like the OP made a good choice in protective gear.

The police are the de facto overseers for many things including accidents in which an insurance company uses to validate claims by the/an insured. Do they get it right or exact all the time- chances are not but they try for accuracy as they realize there is a lot that comes after an accident.

Having enough gear to be alive after a get off is enough in my book. YMMV

OM

The same thing happened with REI and their former no questions asked warranty. People were buying gear on CL and garage sales, then returning it to REI for a full refund.

 

[kbasa]

Considering the margin of error for both speedometers, radar guns, as well as traffic accident analysis and reconstruction there is no evidence he was actually breaking the law, denying based on that difference is letter of law not spirit. Just an officer's assumption he was probably going a bit faster than posted, likely going off the usual pace of traffic.

They found what they needed in the report to deny the warranty and based on the description it was not a measured value posted to the report so again no evidence the law was broken.

We're not gonna agree here, so you can keep defending the company. I've worked with and for many companies that do more for their customers despite this exact type of situation. They can but they won't.

So I'll spend my money elsewhere. Spend yours how you see fit.

I’m not defending the company. The OP isn’t in compliance for the conditions required for a warranty replacement.

The opinion of the officer is generally regarded as a factual statement, so what did they expect would happen? It clearly doesn’t meet the warranty’s conditions, does it?

If they want to challenge the officer’s speed estimate, well good luck with that. “Based in training and experience, I determined the motorcycle was going 40mph.” That’ll stand in court, so it’s as good as a fact in court. It’s hardly an “assumption”, a guess made absent any fact, but more of an informed observation “based on training and experience”, isn’t it.

OP is outta luck.

 

[elementist]

It's not that simple. As OP stated it wasn't measured cop guessed at worst, did accident reconstitution at best.

And an officer's opinion doesn't stand, you don't estimate someone's speed you didn't have any ability to measure and have it stand up in court, I've seen that thrown out and know many stories from my LEO family including my uncle who's career and degrees is in forensics and accident reconstruction where the limits of their authority and estimation abilities are questioned and corrected in court.

But we aren't talking about court it's a companies warranty and they have the ability to interpret and choose to support customers or not.

 

[kbasa]

It's not that simple. As OP stated it wasn't measured cop guessed at worst, did accident reconstitution at best.

And an officer's opinion doesn't stand, you don't estimate someone's speed you didn't have any ability to measure and have it stand up in court, I've seen that thrown out and know many stories from my LEO family including my uncle who's career and degrees is in forensics and accident reconstruction where the limits of their authority and estimation abilities are questioned and corrected in court.

But we aren't talking about court it's a companies warranty and they have the ability to interpret and choose to support customers or not.

How far a bike slid is a great indication of speed at time of dismount. Physics are consistent.

The cop didn’t guess. The cop didn’t assume. I’d bet there’s an scene diagram that shows point of contact with the ground and ending spot for the bike and rider and the calculus they used to assess speed at dismount is factually and scientifically based. “In order to slide this far, the bike weighing this much needs to be going X velocity.” It’s not even complicated physics.

Are you expecting Klim to work outside their written policies? If so, why? Nobody seems to be able to explain that bit that underlies this entire thread.

 

[elementist]

I mentioned accident reconstruction multiple times and already pointed out it's margin of error is often bigger than the reported 5mph.

Its not a field or subject I'm unfamiliar with both the physics and approach of how it works.

My accident had no indicators of my speed at all from the reconstruction. Officer estimated I was within 10% of the speed limit based on my mass and the impact position, but explained how inaccurate that is without a proper force and vector to work from, any estimates compound the error.

 

[omega man]

Perhaps the real title of the thread should be, "I was looking for a little good will consideration" and-

OM

 

[rickdm]

So a couple of points from the discussion. How damaged was the jacket? The stitching along the seam was torn and damaged, it might still be waterproof, but could not withstand another slide. The jacket performed well, but I give 90% of the credit to my Alpinestars Tech 5 airbag. It absolutely saved me. To fly across the road, land on your shoulder and not have any damage or soreness is pretty amazing. I have probably sold at least 3-4 airbags among the riders who were helping me on the side of the road.

My frustration with Klim was that this was not a case of going 50 in a 35 zone where the evidence would be clear, this was a fine judgement. 35 or 40? Did it slide an extra 5’, or 6’ to make that judgement? They clearly wanted to be strict about this and not pay a claim. Would they have denied it at an estimated 36 or 37? Probably.

Unfortunately I only had $500 of coverage for gear. I won’t make that mistake again.

 

[omega man]

So a couple of points from the discussion. How damaged was the jacket? The stitching along the seam was torn and damaged, it might still be waterproof, but could not withstand another slide. The jacket performed well, but I give 90% of the credit to my Alpinestars Tech 5 airbag. It absolutely saved me. To fly across the road, land on your shoulder and not have any damage or soreness is pretty amazing. I have probably sold at least 3-4 airbags among the riders who were helping me on the side of the road.

My frustration with Klim was that this was not a case of going 50 in a 35 zone where the evidence would be clear, this was a fine judgement. 35 or 40? Did it slide an extra 5’, or 6’ to make that judgement? They clearly wanted to be strict about this and not pay a claim. Would they have denied it at an estimated 36 or 37? Probably.

Unfortunately I only had $500 of coverage for gear. I won’t make that mistake again.

Thanks for the clarification(s).

OM

 

[98lee]

The stitching along the seam was torn and damaged, it might still be waterproof, but could not withstand another slide.

From Klim’s website:
Also, the thread that holds much of our gear together is sourced out of Texas.

In the pursuit of the absolute highest quality in our gear, KLIM products are only made in the best factories in the world.


So their specially sourced, best in the world thread, performed pretty much like the stuff everybody else uses.

 

[omega man]

Rickdm,
What kind of gloves were you wearing and how did they hold up during that crash?
Hands and knees usually take a lot of the beating.

OM

 

[98lee]

How far a bike slid is a great indication of speed at time of dismount. Physics are consistent.

The cop didn’t guess. The cop didn’t assume. I’d bet there’s an scene diagram that shows point of contact with the ground and ending spot for the bike and rider and the calculus they used to assess speed at dismount is factually and scientifically based. “In order to slide this far, the bike weighing this much needs to be going X velocity.” It’s not even complicated physics.

Are you expecting Klim to work outside their written policies? If so, why? Nobody seems to be able to explain that bit that underlies this entire thread.

Dave,

Bikes slide in a lowside. In a highside, the bike trips and then tumbles. Completely different dynamic. Different distances for each.


Distance of slide is not just weight and speed. It is also affected by friction coefficients of the parts of the bike that are in contact with the road. Steel, aluminum, plastic, rubber, sliders, etc. The square inches of bike in contact with the road. The coefficient of friction of the road surface.The time in contact with the road (remember in a highside, the bike is not in contact with ANYTHING during parts of the tumble). Each time the bike contacts the ground the vector can change vertically, depending on how it hits. It’s NOT a simple calculation like a lowside.

A highside can result in hugely varying distances to the resting spot (when initiated at the same speed) depending on how it impacts the ground with each hit. Watch MotoGP sometime.

If the officer was so sure that the OP was doing something illegal, WAS HE CITED???

If so, then Klim may be correct to deny the claim.

If not, Klim is using a GUESS by someone who wasn’t there that is well withhin the margin of error to the point of being chicken s..t.




If the officer felt there wasn’t enough evidence to cite him, even he felt there wasn’t enough evidence to determine he was doing anything illegal.

Well Rick?




If people are using this replacement policy to justify paying double to triple the price for this gear, they might not count too strongly on this policy when making their purchasing decisions. If you like the way the gear feels, you think you look good in it, all your buddies wear it, great, buy it. But counting on a replacement shouldn't be a strong incentive for paying the extra cost, if the company acts like this.

 

[elementist]

Dave,

Bikes slide in a lowside. In a highside, the bike trips and then tumbles. Completely different dynamic. Different distances for each.


Distance of slide is not just weight and speed. It is also affected by friction coefficients of the parts of the bike that are in contact with the road. Steel, aluminum, plastic, rubber, sliders, etc. The square inches of bike in contact with the road. The time in contact with the road (remember in a highside, the bike is not in contact with ANYTHING during parts of the tumble). Each time the bike contacts the ground the vector can change vertically, depending on how it hits. It’s NOT a simple calculation like a lowside.



If the officer was so sure that the OP was doing something illegal, WAS HE CITED.

If so, then Klim may be correct to deny the claim.

If not, Klim is using a GUESS by someone who wasn’t there that is well withhin the margin of error to the point of being chicken s..t.




If people are using this replacement policy to justify paying double to triple the price for this gear, they might not count too strongly on this policy when making their purchasing decisions. If you like the way the gear feels, you think you look good in it, all your buddies wear it, great, buy it. But counting on a replacement shouldn't be a strong incentive for paying the extra cost, if the company acts like this.

100% this