No more group rides.......

[shortythorne]

Just go see guy. Tell him you are sorry his bike fell over. If you find damage just nicely ask for his insurance info. Take the high road. He was both unhappy and embarrased at the time.

Paul, you are waaaaay nicer than me. I would certainly go see the guy, but by damn would I tell him I am sorry his f-in bike fell over. Screw whether he was unhappy or embarrassed. For me ,all this would have most likely come to a head in the middle of the street when then incident happened whether he wanted to discuss it or not. I never ride with anyone that isn't an experienced motorcyclist. I would ride with you & Voni .

 

[greenwald]

That kind of behavior really pi$$es me off.

I don't do group rides.

Depending on the jurisdictions (and whether or not the LEO's have a pair), anyone other than a sworn officer obstructing traffic to allow anything other than a funeral procession to file thru red lights can get busted for impersonating an officer.

I led the Special Olympics ride from Green Bay, WI to Steven's Point, WI for years as a motor officer. Along with a mounted counterpart from the De Pere PD, we leap-frogged ahead to each and every controlled intersection and stopped traffic to allow the procession to get thru and remain on schedule. The entire group (usually about 100+ bikes) were briefed by me on procedures and specific hand signals I would give them. Never an accident or incident.

When civilians bragged they would also assume such duties, we shut that down by threatening them with arrest.

Pirates in wife-beater tee-shirts and carnival tattoos performing such tasks? Not on my watch.

 

[markaz]

This past spring there was a group ride up in Scottsdale that was sponsored by one of the local big motorcycle dealers. I forget the occasion (if there was one). IIRC, there were several dozen bikes participating. They went thru an intersection and proceeded against the light when a woman in an SUV on the cross street, who had the green, drove into the intersection and hit one of the bikes, killing the rider & his wife. Evidently she didn't see what was going on. There were no LEOs present, the bikers just assumed that they could proceed. There was lots of disagreement afterwards about whether they had the authorization to go thru the intersections. A sad situation for all parties.

 

[36654]

This past spring there was a group ride up in Scottsdale that was sponsored by one of the local big motorcycle dealers. I forget the occasion (if there was one). IIRC, there were several dozen bikes participating. They went thru an intersection and proceeded against the light when a woman in an SUV on the cross street, who had the green, drove into the intersection and hit one of the bikes, killing the rider & his wife. Evidently she didn't see what was going on. There were no LEOs present, the bikers just assumed that they could proceed. There was lots of disagreement afterwards about whether they had the authorization to go thru the intersections. A sad situation for all parties.

Without a LEO present how could there be any question?

 

[Rinty]

Too many type A's, wide range of skillsets and ages quickly dashes most plans....

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[classicvw]

Without a LEO present how could there be any question?

Exactly. discussion and disagreement by parties who don't know the laws. Sad really.

Here in NJ, even any emergency vehicle with lights and siren on, doesn't have an automatic right to go thru a red signal, but "must exercise due caution" when doing so. Which means, you can do it, but a crash will most likely be on you. I know this firsthand, as years ago, while stopped, I was struck in the rear quarter by an ambulance speeding and making a left turn through a red light.

 

[nelliott]

Were you rushing to a hospital? The other side of the coin is you could just have just cut them some slack and not automatically gotten annoyed and kept your blood pressure in check.

You don't say they were doing anything dangerous. They were out for a ride on a nice summer day. We all need to chill and realize we don't have any more right to the road than anyone else.

IMO, a lone individual in a car, on a motorcycle, or as a group of something, if you are impeding traffic, get the Frick out of the way. It is not your role to play police officer to prevent someone from speeding or to hold other people up because you don't want to drive the speed limit.

In North America, that kind of behavior , holding/impeding people up, creates road rage and can have disastrous consequences. Ride your own ride, but why do you feel you have the right to hold others up?

If you were in Europe, for the most part this isn't an issue, because people actually know how to drive and take a lot of training in order to have the privilege of driving. In North America, Canada and the US, we don't train enough, we only focus on giving tickets for the easy things that are going to create revenue for the state or province and/or are less hard to enforce in a court of law. We have a rule in BC, that says stay in the right lane unless you're passing. I've never seen, nor heard, nor witnessed, anyone being pulled over for violating that rule.

We don't train enough, we don't to retrain enough, we don't retest enough, to ensure people can actually drive properly and stay current with the the proper skills. IN BC we have to renew our drivers license every five years, I personally believe people should have to take Progressive skill-based training every year, and be retested before they get their license renewed. Don't pass the test, don't get license renewed.

This would create all kinds of jobs, and make our roads way safer than they currently are. And likely cut down on traffic violations, and/or road rage.

That's my two cents.

 

[classicvw]

I don't see it as impeding traffic I see it as they have the right to the road as much as anyone else. 5 miles under is not impeding, not action that could be cited.

What if it was just heavy commuting traffic and you weren't able to go as fast as the posted speed limit? Would it be OK for you get your knickers in a bunch and get all aggravated that you're being held back?

Tell me, traffic expert, where would you draw the line? 3 friends out for a ride? 5? 7? Before you feel they're causing (LOL) road rage? You're sounding like the old George Carlin routine- Everyone that drives faster than you do is a maniac, and everyone that drives slower than you do is a moron.

 

[36654]

I see it as they have the right to the road as much as anyone else.

If it was a line of Amish buggies or farm tractors, couldn't they make the same claim of ownership?

 

[nelliott]

I don't see it as impeding traffic I see it as they have the right to the road as much as anyone else. 5 miles under is not impeding, not action that could be cited.

What if it was just heavy commuting traffic and you weren't able to go as fast as the posted speed limit? Would it be OK for you get your knickers in a bunch and get all aggravated that you're being held back?

Tell me, traffic expert, where would you draw the line? 3 friends out for a ride? 5? 7? Before you feel they're causing (LOL) road rage? You're sounding like the old George Carlin routine- Everyone that drives faster than you do is a maniac, and everyone that drives slower than you do is a moron.

And so we have differing opinions.

I know if I someone wants to go faster than me, it is obvious; they generally pull up close behind me, flash their lights, or assert aggressive behaviour. I pull over and let them by. That is courteous, IMO. I don't care if they want to keep the cops down the road busy as I sail by, sometimes it save me the ticket; other times not, because I am the slow poke. They aren't maniac's they just want to drive faster than I do.

Someone who impedes the person behind them, and does not pull over to let them by, is IMO being unthoughtful and uncourteous. Why do you think that person, doing the blocking, has the "right" to block the person who wants to drive more quickly?

Your example of the heavy commuting traffic situation is self explanatory - it seems you are desperately trying to make your point; to what end?
I simply don't agree with you, or your approach, on this issue.

If you actually drive as in the examples you are stating, you may likely putting yourself at risk for an accident by someone rear ending you, or running you off the road. Your choice of course.
I find that after an accident, and I am hurt, it doesn't really matter if "I was right". I personally work to reduce my exposure risk and keep myself safe. Sometimes that means I drive faster than others to keep away from them, and sometimes it means I let others by that want to drive faster than me - whether I am in my car or on my motorcycle - same behaviour applies.

 

[markaz]

Without a LEO present how could there be any question?

You'd think that would be the case but some of the other participants claimed that they were told that they could go thru the intersections, assuming, I guess, that there would be police there to direct traffic. The organizers deny that. There's always lots of CYAing and finger pointing after something like this. Then the lawyers get involved. I haven't heard anything about it since it happened so I don't know what, if anything, was resolved. I'd imagine the lawsuits are still in progress.

 

[36654]

You'd think that would be the case but some of the other participants claimed that they were told that they could go thru the intersections, assuming, I guess, that there would be police there to direct traffic. The organizers deny that. There's always lots of CYAing and finger pointing after something like this. Then the lawyers get involved. I haven't heard anything about it since it happened so I don't know what, if anything, was resolved. I'd imagine the lawsuits are still in progress.

I understand, but someone saying ....."I was told I could ignore traffic signals" ........doesn't sound like it will hold-up in court. Unless there's a LEO or emergency personnel (EMT, Fire Police) on site and directing traffic, the traffic signal is the law.

Considering the size of some of these rides, a parade permit might be the best solution. That way the situation can match the desires of the participants.

 

[henzilla]

Considering the size of some of these rides, a parade permit might be the best solution. That way the situation can match the desires of the participants.

Seems to be the norm in organized rides starting in a major town here, but often lose the escort after the city limit sign is reached. A lot of rides starting from dealerships somehow get away with no permit as smaller towns haven't adressed the issue. Even the large charity bicycle rides have traffic control here.The cost has driven the price to ride for a charity up...insurance and LEO pay a big part of the price now.

Have never observed riders in muscle shirts doing "officer impersonations" at signaled intersections...now pulling out of a group stop...well yeah

Worst was the petite but scary woman who jumped in front of our small group at the last possible second in Eureka Springs leaving a bar and held up her palm towards us...yeah, that pissed a lot of folks off.

 

[36654]

Seems to be the norm in organized rides starting in a major town here, but often lose the escort after the city limit sign is reached. A lot of rides starting from dealerships somehow get away with no permit as smaller towns haven't adressed the issue. Even the large charity bicycle rides have traffic control here.The cost has driven the price to ride for a charity up...insurance and LEO pay a big part of the price now.

Have never observed riders in muscle shirts doing "officer impersonations" at signaled intersections...now pulling out of a group stop...well yeah

Worst was the petite but scary woman who jumped in front of our small group at the last possible second in Eureka Springs leaving a bar and held up her palm towards us...yeah, that pissed a lot of folks off.

Bicycle riders, for the most part, get that they're on roads with higher speed vehicles. A local GoldWing club did a nice job providing escort service for a recent bicycle charity ride, flagging the group to prevent entanglement with cars/trucks. But, while the ride was well attended, the riders were fairly well dispersed, allowing faster traffic to easily pass.

 

[nelliott]

Bicycle riders, for the most part, get that they're on roads with higher speed vehicles. A local GoldWing club did a nice job providing escort service for a recent bicycle charity ride, flagging the group to prevent entanglement with cars/trucks. But, while the ride was well attended, the riders were fairly well dispersed, allowing faster traffic to easily pass.

In Vancouver, BC many bicycle riders believe the standard traffic rules don't apply to them.

Blowing through stop signs, crossing via the crosswalk (riding their bikes, not walking them), not using hand signals to inform of their intent before they turn...

In Germany, if you ride a bicycle and commit a traffic violation (and get caught) you get demerit points on your driver's licence.

 

[EUGENE]

The same is true in Portland,OR., with bicycles.

 

[greenwald]

Same here in Wisconsin.

 

[ricochetrider]

Bicycles, like any "vehicle" using the public roadways, are subject to obeying traffic laws. I've heard of bicyclists getting DUIs. I've seen a new breed of spandex nazi: bicyclists who so believe in their "right" to the road that a group will ride in all of the lane and "stand their ground", refusing to let motor vehicles pass. damaging vehicles at traffic lights after

In today's society everybody has a "right".
But no one has a responsibility.

Nobody has a civic responsibility, as in peoples' driving habits are rude and ignorant, folks claiming their ground in the fast lane and their "right" to hold up traffic. I drive over 20,000 miles each year on the Mid Atlantic freeways here in the U.S. I seen lines of cars stacked in the fast lane, and nobody in the right lane. People on their phones, slowing down as they look thru their emails and texts, then speeding back up again when their attention returns to driving... In Pennsyltuckey, there are signs which read, "keep right except to pass" or words to that affect; never once have I ever heard of anyone getting puled over for driving in the fast lane.

Back to group rides on motorcycles:

Each year, some friends of mine hold a group ride for Old British Motorcycles, in May, in the mountains of NC, TN, & VA. Other types of bikes do show up but it is largely attended by guys on 60s, & 70s Brit Bikes. It's the one group ride I might ever attend. It is orderly, and well organized. There used to be a "fast" group & a "slow" group, but last time I was there, everybody rode about the same, the faster guys up front, the slower guys in back, but everyone pretty much together. They hold a safety meeting before the ride, then ride out to the starting point on the BRP and hold another. Everyone has a map of the route. They ride about 200 miles on one day, and everyone is encouraged to ride their own ride. There's a sweep vehicle with a trailer to pick up anyone who has a problem with their bike. They ride rain or shine, weather be damned; and in mid-late May in the Mountains, the weather is bad to horrible more than it has been good over the 14-15 years they've been doing this.

 

[36654]

In today's society everybody has a "right".
But no one has a responsibility.

While you may have the right to be one, it's your choice to be an A-hole.....

 

[globalrider]

Group rides = pure hell.

Motorcycling to me is about freedom and doing my own thing.