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Voltage Issues - 2014 R1200GSA

M

mtodriscoll

New member
Recently, my 2014 R1200GSA displayed a red General Warning with the battery icon. While riding, even at low speeds, the warning would clear - but as soon as I stopped at an intersection, the warning would return. I checked the batter voltage with bike off, and it was a little low (12.3) and I noticed the battery was dated 11/2017 - so I got a new BMW AGM-style battery.
New battery voltage was 13.1v and installed last night fine without issue. While riding, the voltage displays as 14.1v (alternator engaged). I stopped for gas this morning, and as I exited and stopped at a traffic light, the red General Warning displayed with battery icon and voltage was 12.3v. As soon as I started rolling, voltage returned to 14.1v and I completed the ride without the warning light coming on, even at the next couple of short traffic stops.
It seems like the alternator is only engaging when the engine is under load (riding). I'm not sure how motorcycle alternators work (I am a new rider), but I would have thought that if the engine is running - even at idle - then the belt to the alternator is turning as well. It seems to charge fine as long as I'm moving...
Any ideas on what might be wrong with this system?
 
mtodriscoll said:
I'm not sure how motorcycle alternators work (I am a new rider), but I would have thought that if the engine is running - even at idle - then the belt to the alternator is turning as well. It seems to charge fine as long as I'm moving...
Any ideas on what might be wrong with this system?
Click to expand...

I do not think there is a belt to the alternator on that model. I have the same, a 2016 R1200 GSA and I am not up on it like I am on my other BMWs. The R1150 GSA I just sold had an automotive-type 50A-700W alternator driven by a multi V-groove belt.

I also replaced the original but dead BMW-YUASA AGM battery last September and I did not see a battery sensor (as seen on many cars these days), so unless it is elsewhere on the motorcycle, it would not be the issue. Note on my car that does have a battery sensor, I see 14.3V on start-up and idling but once I am underway or in Drive, I've seen from 12.3V to 12.8V on the highway.

Looking at the part catalog, there seems to be a seperate voltage regulator. Not claiming that is the issue though.

Curious as to what the issue is.
 
Last edited:
@mtodriscoll - Your bike does not have an automotive-style alternator. Instead, it has a rotor/stator opposite the clutch and a voltage regulator/rectifier to convert from AC to DC and limit/maintain voltage to below 14.5 - see this article for complete details on what the basic parts are: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/what-is-a-stator

Normally the system would maintain enough voltage at idle, but if there is a problem, there are troubleshooting steps to find out where in the system the problem is. Here is a decent article that covers the steps:
 
Do you have a accessory that is causing the excess draw? Ground to frame clean and tight?, positive to positive post clean and tight just to the right of the battery?
 
TRJeff said:
Do you have a accessory that is causing the excess draw?
Click to expand...
I PM'd him yesterday and asked him that, if he had driving lights, a heated suit, etc I believe the alternator wattage is 510W or 36A, of course at RPM and not idle.

His reply:
Stock heated grips (which are off) and auxiliary lights, which were on, but does it when they’re off as well.
On ride home today, I noticed if I increase the throttle so it idles at ~1800rpm, then it can keep up with the draw. But if I leave the regular 1200rpm idle, it can’t keep up and eventually the low voltage warning hits. If I rev it up to 1800 and hold it, the voltage climbs and the warning clears.
Click to expand...
 
With a 3-phase alternator and if one phase drops out, I wonder if he can still get 14.1V that he claims with a minimal load.

It would be worth checking the phase voltages or the resistance.
 
Well my 2014 RT just had a similar issue - BME has used a STUNT-type voltage regulator which keeps the alternator stator pumping out 100% regardless of the draw asked for from the bike. Take a look at all the different alternator (stator burned) failures. at 70,000 on My RT mine failed -luckily I got home on my battery as I watched the voltage go down.

Since then I have done a lot of reading and research on the subjects. Once the stator gets fried -it's a huge and mucho $$$$ to get it replaced. 3200$ on my RT (fortunately my extended warranty was still within the time and covers all the work and parts.

Stators need to be cooled that is why most external alternators have a fan attached to the shaft -which keeps it cooling. With internal stators we can only rely on the oil for cooling.

There are 2 types of Voltage Regulators - SHUNT and SERIES. I am replacing my voltage once my bike gets a new stator and voltage regulator (fingers crossed that the work gets gone correctly for the dealer). It's a huge job requiring a from off engine and engine work removing the transmission etc. 11 hours of shop time.

Shunt-type drains off the excess power supply in the form of distance (not well for the stator because resistance causes HEAT). A Series type will act like a dimmer switch NOT keeping the alternator at 100% output, but through a much more complicated internal circuit it adjusts the current output to match the needs only. This keeps the stator much cooler and extends its life.

So I'm upgrading my bike as another rider (has already understood) the huge advantage. Now, because the new regulator is slightly bigger I am modifying his install slightly. Because the series type is heavier and slightly bigger I am going to add a thin metal plate between the two screws which hold the regulator up under the rear finder behind the rear shock cover and in front of the rear shock this is all under the ECU rubber mounting plastic area. And, obviously, due to extra weight, I'm using lock-tight on the threads but also lock washers or locking cap nuts. Due to its tight fit under the thin plastic area, it is only possible to use very small round head screws or larger screws with small wide heads (Thin fender type washers) for strength.

Please see his post on his work -search under wetheads - series voltage regulator, or voltage regulator -he did a real service to us all!!.
 
There are a number of threads on this voltage regulator deal- in the “Tag Cloud”. The “Tag Cloud” can be searchable through the forum search function. Click search> look for tag Cloud. On less than a full size computer, you may have to scroll right to see the tag cloud.
OM
 
Catching up on the recent posts - thanks for all the help! I posted in several forums and forgot to update this one.
I ran some diagnostics following these steps: Diagnosis and repair of charging system (R-series, '13 on) V1.0.pdf (ukgser.com)
  • Battery tested OK. I left it off the tender for 3 days, unused, and the voltage only dropped to 13.06v, so there does not appear to be a parasitic draw
  • Section 4.2, Step 11 expects the battery to remain at 14.2-14.4v with the engine idling. I already knew this test would fail as I've seen the voltage dropping while idling. The voltage continuously fell until the warning light comes on (12.3v or less).
  • Step 11 continues with a no-load DC output test at the regulator/rectifier by disconnecting the 2-pin connector at the unit and starting the bike
    • Test states that if the stator were faulty, the voltage across the regulator/rectifier pins would be lower than 13.8v
    • Test states that if the voltage rises to between 14.2v-14.4v at idle speed then there is a possibly faulty regulator/rectifier.
    • with the engine at idle, the output of my regulator/rectifier was 14.92v-14.95v
  • I proceeded as though the 14.95v reading was a fail of the first condition since the voltage rose well past 14.2-14.4v at idle speed
  • Section 4.4 Testing the voltage regulator/rectifier
    • As soon as I disconnected both of the connectors, oil started dripping out of the area for the alternator connector (weird, I've read posts on what may cause this)
    • Test 1: PASS, resistance readings were all within spec: 474 for all three pins (expected value: 460-480)
    • Test 2: PASS, no continuity present
    • Test 3: PASS, no continuity present
    • Test 4: Inconclusive, resistance reading of 100 for all three pins, expected value: 103-105. Probably OK...
  • Section 4.3 Alternator Test
    • Test 6, continuity between all 3 terminals: PASS
    • Test 8, the resistance between all 3 windings was 0.1 for all three, expected value 8 ohms (FAIL?)
      • Tested with 2 different meters. One was 0.1 Ohms, the other was 0.3 Ohms.
    • Test 9, PASS, no continuity between each of the 3 stator pins and Ground.
    • Test 10, FAIL - test for AC voltages between the stators. (Note: I did not have a light bulb test fixture. I just read the AC volts between each of the stators.)
      • Pins 1 and 2: 0v
      • Pins 1 and 3: 13.5v-14.3v, jumps to 20v at 2000 rpm
      • Pins 2 and 3: 13.3v-13.8v, jumps to 20v at 2000 rpm
0V output for one of the stators makes me think this could be a worst-case scenario of stator failure.

Feels like my pet was just diagnosed with cancer or something. I have some friends at work who are willing to help me make the repairs myself, which would save several thousand vs. the dealer doing the work. Parts alone come to $1,700 if I fix it myself, which is doable. But do I pour several thousand dollars into a 10-year-old bike with 64K miles on it? Or do I trade it in for a newer model...
 
Stator failure is common on the older wetheads. It is well documented. It requires pulling the back half of the motor off and removing the transmission to get to the stator.
 
mtodriscoll said:
But do I pour several thousand dollars into a 10-year-old bike with 64K miles on it? Or do I trade it in for a newer model...
Click to expand...

That's a cost/benefit scenario that only you can answer. The trade in value for your bike will most likely be heavily discounted due to the charging/stator issue. If you have the money and would rather just trade up and put the issue behind you, then trading it in for a newer model sounds like the way to go. But, trading up will cost additional money and could cost more than the repair, but that can only be determined once a trade in value is provided and a price available for the newer bike. Fixing the issue for parts only may be the lower cost alternative, but it would probably take several days of working on it. The bike with a new stator will be worth more than comparable 2014 GSAs with their original stators. The other question is what's the condition of the rest of bike? Any other repairs needed should also be considered.
 
88bmwjeff said:
That's a cost/benefit scenario that only you can answer. The trade in value for your bike will most likely be heavily discounted due to the charging/stator issue. If you have the money and would rather just trade up and put the issue behind you, then trading it in for a newer model sounds like the way to go. But, trading up will cost additional money and could cost more than the repair, but that can only be determined once a trade in value is provided and a price available for the newer bike. Fixing the issue for parts only may be the lower cost alternative, but it would probably take several days of working on it. The bike with a new stator will be worth more than comparable 2014 GSAs with their original stators. The other question is what's the condition of the rest of bike? Any other repairs needed should also be considered.
Click to expand...
Thanks for these thought parameters! The more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards doing the repairs myself for the cost of new parts. I have some coworkers who are into this level of repair and work on their own bikes, so I'll have a mentor or two to lean on during the process.
 
The first time you take the bike apart it may be overwhelming as there are so many pieces and parts. But if you organize them meticulously it is not as bad as it looks.
I just redid the suspension on my GSA again and it looks like a bomb went off but if you are organized it isn't really that bad IMHO.
I.E put all the screws back in their original locations where possible, mark the connectors with tape if need be. Most only fit in one location so that is easy. Take lots of pictures or video to remind you of where things went as well.

Much depends on your mechanical skills but with the help of friends and a YouTube video here and there you can do it. Just make sure you use OEM seals and gaskets and the correct torque values on the fasteners. It is a good opportunity to clean the whole bike as well. You'd be amazed the debris you'll find in nooks and crannies.. . Good luck !
 
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