mika
Still Wondering
Montoya goes from F1 to NASCAR , seems a bit strange but what the heck. 
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Montoya goes from F1 to NASCAR
- Thread starter mika
- Start date
bubbagazoo
I like TANG!
M1ka said:Montoya goes from F1 to NASCAR , seems a bit strange but what the heck.
Maybe JP likes the idea of a pay cut. You know darn well his paycheck from Chip will not be as high as it is in F1. But, he has driven for Ganassi in the past and I think a lot of the decision to move the Cup racing was based on that relationship.
mika
Still Wondering
This is the silly season in F1. Of all the things I have heard or read, over the years, about F1 drivers and teams during the silly season for some reason this seemed the silliest.
The presure of F1 has done in more than one driver, perhaps the money is not worth it to Juan Pablo anymore. Or perhaps NASCAR is looking to solidify a spanish speaking fan base.
The presure of F1 has done in more than one driver, perhaps the money is not worth it to Juan Pablo anymore. Or perhaps NASCAR is looking to solidify a spanish speaking fan base.
Motorcyclist
New member
Montoya is a talented driver, and I never felt he reached his full potential in F1. I watched him put on an exceptional display of skill when he easily won the Indy 500 driving for Ganassi in CART a few years ago. It goes without saying that I greatly admire his ability, and I enjoy his aggressive style.
All that being said, it is my belief that Montoya is going to have a rough time of it in NASCAR. Totally different vehicle handling characteristics and a totally different strategy. Whereas F1 is all about having a dominant car, getting out front and avoiding directly racing with the other competitors, NASCAR is all about vehicle parity and the give and take of racing in close quarters. It is cliche, but in NASCAR, "rubbin's racing" applies like no other form of motorsports. It will take Montoya a bit of time to adapt to this sort of competitive environment, and he will have a steep learning curve. I just hope he doesn't expect to walk in and be annointed champion. A driver of his background may as well be wearing a target on his bumper!
I hope he succeeds, but it will not be pretty at first. Just my $.02.
George
All that being said, it is my belief that Montoya is going to have a rough time of it in NASCAR. Totally different vehicle handling characteristics and a totally different strategy. Whereas F1 is all about having a dominant car, getting out front and avoiding directly racing with the other competitors, NASCAR is all about vehicle parity and the give and take of racing in close quarters. It is cliche, but in NASCAR, "rubbin's racing" applies like no other form of motorsports. It will take Montoya a bit of time to adapt to this sort of competitive environment, and he will have a steep learning curve. I just hope he doesn't expect to walk in and be annointed champion. A driver of his background may as well be wearing a target on his bumper!
I hope he succeeds, but it will not be pretty at first. Just my $.02.
George
mika
Still Wondering
You are right about the difference in characteristics of the cars. It will be an adjustment in weight, size and HP. In his early days with The BMW team he was not afraid to swap paint with Schumacher when he was the undisputed top dog and everyone else seemed to be looking for a blue flag so they could pull over and get out of his way. I remember a couple of dives into corners in Brazil if memory serves.
So he should not be intimidated by NASCAR bump and run driving or the big names. I donÔÇÖt think he has lost any of his bravado so he could be very interesting to watch him bump draft his way through a field.
So he should not be intimidated by NASCAR bump and run driving or the big names. I donÔÇÖt think he has lost any of his bravado so he could be very interesting to watch him bump draft his way through a field.
Motorcyclist
New member
M1ka said:
I don't think he will be intimidated either. But the art of bumping in NASCAR is a well refined craft and you need to know how the cars (both yours and the bumpees) handle it. There is no substitute for experience, he just needs to get the experience. And getting that experience will take time.
Swapping paint in open wheels is much different than NASCAR. Much less frequent and much more severe consequences in open wheel. We shall see how he handles it, perhaps he will be like AJ, Mario, Mark Donohue and others who showed skill in a variety of cars.
bubbagazoo
I like TANG!
Statdawg said:
NASCAR already races the Busch Series in Mexico City at track they originally built to host the Mexican F1 Grand Prix. Lovely road course they have there. The rumour is that NASCAR will bring the Busch Series to Le Circuit Gilles Villeneuve next year or the year after - another road course for the "cannot turn right" boys
.I think Montoya is going directly to Cup because of who he is. There are other former CART drivers trying to learn the craft of heavy stock car racing. Paul Tracy is scheduled to run a total of 5 races this year (he has already run 2 (maybe 3) so far). Cristian Fitipaldi tried Busch racing and left after 1/2 a year. Michel Jourdain Jr. is learning the ropes in the Craftsman Truck Series for Jack Roush after an appalling year in Busch last season driving for Rick Hendrick.
Danica coming to NASCAR. I wish her luck. A female driver who has been more successful in IRL is taking a while to learn the craft - Erin Crocker. Last year she drove ARCA races and tried to run some Busch races but did not have what it took. She is running Ray Evernham's truck and a few Busch races this year with the goal of a full year of Busch next year.
I think the difficulty many open wheel drivers have in switching to stock cars is despite their low tech construction, those stock cars are hard to tune for the track. In an IRL or CART car, you adjust the wing and give lots of power and they usually stick to the road. You just hope you got the right suspension on the car because there is little if any adjustments on them. In NASCAR, it seems like everything is adjustable (with in the rules) and the drivers need to be able to accurately communicate what the car is doing to the crews. This is where I think many of the open wheel drivers get lost in NASCAR. They know the car is not driving well but they cannot seem to get the adjustments sorted out. One exception to this seems to be former IRL series champion, Tony Stewart who is now a 2 time NASCAR Winston/Nextel Cup champion.
Montoya has a much better record in Indy cars than the ones mentioned. He smoked them as soon as he started Indy cars, dominated the 500 & made a decent showing in F1. Paul Tracy may share some of the personality "issues" but lacks the win ratio of Montoya. Christian Fittapaldi & Michael Jordain-not in the same league skill wise. Same for Danica although she would get the most publicity of them all.
I agree he may have a hard time in Cup racing because of his personality. Nobody will cut him any slack there.
I agree he may have a hard time in Cup racing because of his personality. Nobody will cut him any slack there.
S
steviewonder
Guest
F1 is no longer racing. You'll see precious little racing activity in an F1 "race". It's ALL about qualifying, turn 1 and pit stops ... in that order ... with some courses being worse than others (Monaco comes to mind as THE worst course).
The car technology is awesome but the racing action is boring on it's best day.
The car technology is awesome but the racing action is boring on it's best day.
bubbagazoo
I like TANG!
M1ka said:
I watched the entire race yesterday although I was ready to walk away disgusted after the 07 spun my man Mikey near the end of the race. Mikey was running in the mid-20s and ended up 36th. Bowyer finished 14th. And Bowyer wonders why Tony Stewart says he needs to learn to respect his fellow drivers and how to give and take.
I thought the racing was quite entertaining with lots of passing for position going on all around the track. Not necessarily for the lead but definitely for points further back. Kurt Busch, who led a good part of the start of the race and then was penalized for getting his car serviced when the pits were closed (he could have drove through and not stopped to avoid the penalty) was 38th after the penalty and finished the race in 19th - a difference of 57 points.
I felt that there was more racing at the Glen then there will be at MIS on Sunday. The only other places you see that much racing in NASCAR is on the short tracks and the restrictor plate tracks. The mile - 2 mile tracks are usually won by the teams with the most money to spend on developing their cars, not necessarily the best driver or overall team.
The title of NASCAR's Mr. Off-Road 2006 has to go to Boris Said who was in the kitty litter a couple of times and managed to drive out without a tow truck. Runner up goes to Mikey Waltrip's performance in Saturday's Busch Race.
On a slightly different but similar tack, I have always wondered how good some of these drivers actually are. How good is Jeff Gordon, 4 time Cup champion, winner of 75 races? He has only ever driven for Hendrick Motorsports, an acknowledged power team. What kind of results would he have if he were to drive for Morgan-McClure Racing (the #4 car) or BAM Racing (the #49). We all know that Jacques Villeneuve seems to have gone into the tank after winning the F1 championship in 1997. Was it a fluke that he won? Or was he be absolute best driver that year? When Jacques left Williams for BAR, his fortunes seemed to go south in a really big hurry. Did he suddenly forget how to drive an F1 car? Or was the equipment simply junk?
The only driver that I think means more to the team than the equipment is Michael Schumacher (as much as I really don't like him). Before he joined Benetton, the team was crap. He won two F1 championships with them. The team went to crap when he left. Ferrari was not a power team when he joined them. Since he arrived, Ferrari has been the ultimate motoring power team.
Sorry for the slight hi-jack.
Plenty of American talent here waiting for a chance,so GanASSi picks Juan Pabl
h I can see all the people lined up for shirts and crap,NOT.Probably will look like Geoff Bodines trailer used to,Maytag repairs anyone?And how stupid is that "Lucky Dog" rule?Kurt"Pee Wee Herman"Busch comes from 5 laps down and finishes 7th?What a joke,Nascar is no more racin than WWF was wrestlin!(Just my humble unbiased opinion)
h I can see all the people lined up for shirts and crap,NOT.Probably will look like Geoff Bodines trailer used to,Maytag repairs anyone?And how stupid is that "Lucky Dog" rule?Kurt"Pee Wee Herman"Busch comes from 5 laps down and finishes 7th?What a joke,Nascar is no more racin than WWF was wrestlin!(Just my humble unbiased opinion)
mika
Still Wondering
This was not a hijack. With Montoya's move it is part of the thread.
I can enjoy NASCAR on an oval, but have never been a big fan of the races they have on road course. There were a lot of passes. But so many seemed to be bash and crash passes that I am not accustomed to in road racing.
I see your point. I guess my prejudices were showing.
I can enjoy NASCAR on an oval, but have never been a big fan of the races they have on road course. There were a lot of passes. But so many seemed to be bash and crash passes that I am not accustomed to in road racing.
I see your point. I guess my prejudices were showing.
bubbagazoo
I like TANG!
mcar said:Plenty of American talent here waiting for a chance,so GanASSi picks Juan Pabl
First, Juan Pablo phoned Chip and enquired about the ride, not the other way around. Chip and JP have worked together in the past, won CART championships and the Indy 500 together. I don't seem to recall any criticism towards Ganassi or any of the other teams for using non-Americans. And I have never heard any one complain about DEI or Calvin Wells putting Ron Fellows into their car for road races. Guess what, guys, Fellows is not American. He is Canadian.
Second, NASCAR is a business that is trying to expand into non-American markets (Latin America and Canada). What better way to do that than to sign an extremely talented and accomplished driver like Montoya. I don't know how much success he will have. There are not that many open wheel stars that have successfully made the transition from IRL/CART/F1 to heavy stock cars.
Third, I agree that the free pass/lucky dog rule needs to be fixed. Jeff Gordon at Indy made up 4 laps, 2 from competition yellows. Shrub makes up 5. My fix would be no free pass on competition yellows (cautions thrown so everybody can make adjustments on their cars because of an unplanned change in the racing situation before the race starts - unknown tire wear issues at Indy for example). The free pass was introduced to make up for the change a few years back where the cars no longer raced back to the start/finish line as a result of an on track incident. Because the competition cautions are not the result of any on track incident and because they are scheduled, I believe there should be no free pass.
I also believe that the number of consecutive free passes available to a driver should be none. If you are the first car one or more laps down and the caution flag comes out, you get one free pass. If you are still the first car one or more laps down when the NEXT caution comes out, you get no free pass. But on the upside to that, you get to start on the inside of the leaders rather than at the end of the longest line. You would not get another free pass until somebody else has gotten one. If you get a lap back and are back on the lead lap, then go down a lap again and are in that position, you are stuck.
Just my humble, very biased opinion. OK, I need a drink now.
bubbagazoo
I like TANG!
M1ka said:
I think the reason for the bashing and crashing in the NASCAR road races comes from 2 factors. The first is that they have twice as many cars on the track as F1 (22) and Champ Car (18ish). The second factor is that the cars seem to be more equal. By that, I mean the first through tenth place cars are usually on par with each other, the eleventh through twenty fifth, and so on.
Morgan Shepherd (all 64 years old of him) continues to try and qualify for Cup races. He has not been successful this year. He knows that if he does make a race, his car is not the equal of the Hendrick or Roush or Childress cars. He doesn't even try to race these guys. He knows that his is a 35th to 43rd place car and those are the guys he races when he gets into the field.
So, if you have five fairly equal cars running together, fighting for a position, you are going to get bashing and crashing. I just wish the open wheel cars were that equal. No, I don't want to see them bashing and crashing. But I would like to see the racing be better.
mika
Still Wondering
I see what you are saying. It strikes me that attitude and culture plays a part in it also.
NASCAR has bump drafting and bumping in all other forms as a way of life. I donÔÇÖt see how you turn that off once you get to a road race setting.
Parity is a hard thing to come by. Even if you control as many things as you can from chassis, engine and fuel it is hard to come by. Money draws skilled drivers, pit crews and mechanics together; then the field separates again.
To the thread topic. Montoya was a bash and crash kind of guy in F1. He should have the backing for car, crew and mechanics. Even with that rep and backing I wonder if he is really up to bump drafting and mixing it up in general?
NASCAR has bump drafting and bumping in all other forms as a way of life. I donÔÇÖt see how you turn that off once you get to a road race setting.
Parity is a hard thing to come by. Even if you control as many things as you can from chassis, engine and fuel it is hard to come by. Money draws skilled drivers, pit crews and mechanics together; then the field separates again.
To the thread topic. Montoya was a bash and crash kind of guy in F1. He should have the backing for car, crew and mechanics. Even with that rep and backing I wonder if he is really up to bump drafting and mixing it up in general?
