In Awe of the Greatest Generation

[kenlavine]

How many on that list had a "career" before enlisting? How many were drafted? I think the list would be whittled down considerably if you eliminated everyone that did not have a career before the war.

I didn't see Ted Williams listed. Here was a guy who was a star player that served in both WW2 and Korea as a fighter pilot.

 

[36654]

No they didn't have to have a physical disqualification. And I'm not sure you can say McCarthy proved much, but he did give birth to "McC'arthyism which is, the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence. It also means "the practice of making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or political criticism." That's what McCarthy proved and he was and still is discredited for it. Perhaps getting too political, but hopefully staying more on the edge of written history.

Dan, as relayed to me, until the draft board was satisfied, age eligible men could be called up for the medical physical. Of course, having a family also could serve as a service exemption.

My reference to McCarthy was relative to McCarthyism and the irony that within 10-yrs of winning the great war, an American was using some of the Nazi propaganda techniques to solidify political power. For reference, review the history of Dachau and it's inmates. Dachau was established in 1933, shortly after the Nazis came to power, and served as an internment camp for their political opponents. But, before they could be interned, they had to be identified as a threat to the nation.

 

[greenwald]

Kevin, near the bottom of your OP your wrote " Would someone please remind me how many of today's Hollywood and sports elite put their careers on hold to enlist in Iraq or Afghanistan?

I believe there is presumption there that THEY SHOULD have put their careers on hold to participate in these more recent wars if they physically could do so. I think you are also presuming the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (Vietnam?) are equivalent to WW II as necessary to preserving the freedom of the US and its European allies. (Please correct me if my presumptions are wrong.)

Many young Americans, famous or not, but who now have the choice to serve or not, decided that putting their lives on the line for these wars was a bad idea. That is just a fact. I suspect that any debate here about how right/wrong American presence in these various wars the US was/is in will get this thread killed. No politics on this forum.

I respect the choice that many have made to join the US armed services. They thought the government was right, wanted to serve, and maybe needed the after-service benefits. I deeply regret so many losses of lives, limbs and minds.

First off, of course your 'presumptions' are not "wrong." After all, they are simply your presumptions, and enjoy an inherent neutrality.

"Presumptions, assumptions, feelings, opinions, guesses, hunches, IMHO, etc." all enjoy a similar DNA - not being 'facts,' they should be immune from prosecution (or persecution, as is usually the case here on this Forum).

The post was simply a "tip of the hat" to the patriotism of a former generation of Americans that I greatly respect - nothing more, nothing less. No hidden agenda.

The fact that it attracted viral political commentary, thou unforeseen, is not entirely unexpected - not in this crowd. Those who see it for what it was intended, I'm sure found interest.

Those who only have a hammer, ..... oh well.

And you're probably right - something as harmlessly patriotic as this could very well be extinquished by the Moderators - nothing on this Forum surprises me. If that happens, the sun will still come up for me tomorrow.

Hope your Canadian winter is tolerable.

 

[36654]

Holy cow Jon, the guy just wanted to say something positive about some people. Don't infer that by doing so he was demeaning those not on his list.

Kevin,

Saying something positive about the actors and athletes that enlisted in WW-II was fine. Correlating that with our current all-volunteer military and a perceived lack of support from the movie industry is where the wheels came off. Honestly, I don't know anyone that isn't supportive of the citizens that volunteer for the armed services or reserves. However, I hear lots of people saying one group, or the other, is non-supportive and, therefore, less than honorable. Classifying folks, or professions, in this manner doesn't help anyone and only makes those folks in the identified nonsupporting groups feel unwelcome.

Under the all-volunteer format, military service is now a career choice. It isn't something someone avoids, it's a choice. Is that a good thing? In my opinion, no. I have no clue how you ask a young man / woman to put their life on the line in some far-off place, because it was a career choice. For the "Greatest Generation" it was a simple request....let's get this done so we can go home and get on with life.

Jon

 

[akbeemer]

My Army career spanned the period of the draft and the start of VOLAR, the all volunteer force. Hands down, the all volunteer approach has created a better military. The last thing I wanted in a unit I commanded was a soldier who did not want to be there. It takes a special sort of young man or woman to make a career choice that will assuredly cause long separations from loved ones, deployments to some of the most God forsaken spots on the face of the earth and occasionally encounters with people who are dead set on making you dead. A common criticism of the volunteer force is that it does not include America's "Best and Brightest". That is code for the children of the wealthy, celebrities or the politically connected. Fortunately, wealth, celebrity and politics have no part in developing people of strong character (perhaps just the opposite). After the Army I worked as a senior administrator on a college campus and dealt regularly with college students. Given the option I would much rather spend my time around a group of soldiers than with a group of self-absorbed college students complaining because their roommate uses their shampoo and the VH1 feed to their TV is out.

Right now few of my friends have any prior military service; why did they not serve? I just do not care.

 

[henzilla]

And you're probably right - something as harmlessly patriotic as this could very well be extinquished by the Moderators - nothing on this Forum surprises me. If that happens, the sun will still come up for me tomorrow.

Seriously Kevin
I as a volunteer moderator am as patriotic as others and have no inner circle agenda...just have posting rules that we hold the line on. Patriotism does not mean politics. Your topic is/was interesting and have seen that list before...the political swing things like this take are not so interesting...or tolerable on this site...but everyone knows that right?

I know it's deep Winter for some and the walls are closing in for some as well...how about everyone play nice,eh? I'll take that comment wasn't meant as a slam towards the mod team and will have a great day.

 

[BCKRider]

First off, of course your 'presumptions' are not "wrong." After all, they are simply your presumptions, and enjoy an inherent neutrality.

"Presumptions, assumptions, feelings, opinions, guesses, hunches, IMHO, etc." all enjoy a similar DNA - not being 'facts,' they should be immune from prosecution (or persecution, as is usually the case here on this Forum).

The post was simply a "tip of the hat" to the patriotism of a former generation of Americans that I greatly respect - nothing more, nothing less. No hidden agenda.

The fact that it attracted viral political commentary, thou unforeseen, is not entirely unexpected - not in this crowd. Those who see it for what it was intended, I'm sure found interest.

Those who only have a hammer, ..... oh well.

And you're probably right - something as harmlessly patriotic as this could very well be extinquished by the Moderators - nothing on this Forum surprises me. If that happens, the sun will still come up for me tomorrow.

Hope your Canadian winter is tolerable.

Kevin,

First let me say that I have the greatest respect for you as both an MSF coach and the words you have posted on this forum concerning "riding safely." Always greatly appreciated by me.

I suspect we would differ in our politics, but that is not for this forum (and I don't debate politics on other forums either.) I accept that you were "tipping your hat" your hat to some famous Americans who served in past wars, with no hidden agenda.

The Canadian winter, where I live, has been boring. Only one cold snap, little snow, but ice covers our driveway and parking area. Have fallen twice - with minor damage to the body - trying to get to the car or a shed to retrieve a tire gauge. (And the car tires were just fine.) At least two months until I can ride again. That does make some of us a little surly.

 

[greenwald]

Kevin,

First let me say that I have the greatest respect for you as both an MSF coach and the words you have posted on this forum concerning "riding safely." Always greatly appreciated by me.

I suspect we would differ in our politics, but that is not for this forum (and I don't debate politics on other forums either.) I accept that you were "tipping your hat" your hat to some famous Americans who served in past wars, with no hidden agenda.

The Canadian winter, where I live, has been boring. Only one cold snap, little snow, but ice covers our driveway and parking area. Have fallen twice - with minor damage to the body - trying to get to the car or a shed to retrieve a tire gauge. (And the car tires were just fine.) At least two months until I can ride again. That does make some of us a little surly.

Thanks for the comments Doug - appreciated.

And you're right - while our politics may not mesh, I have no desire to discuss them here. My thread was posted with no political agenda, contrary to what some may think.

I can empathize with you falling this winter - have gone down 2 1/2 times so far on that darn ice (the .5 time was an uncomfortable 'split' but not completely on my keester). Don't bounce as well as I did when younger.

6 below this morning, and an inch of snow forecast for tomorrow. My least favorite season. My son texting me that he rode 175 miles yesterday on his Honda ST1300 in Colorado Springs doesn't help!

 

[motodan]

This is lame, but I started "parking" the snow blower next to the RT...so at least when I go to the garage I walking in the right direction. And remember, Toro has an "rt" in it's spelling. And on the plus side, the Toro doesn't need valve adjustments. But alas, as hard as I try, there's really no comparison. So I just come back to the laptop and try to "start something"! I am the Moderator's winter gift from hell!

 

[junkjohn]

Elvis on that list, or was that a movie he did?

 

[SCBuckeye]

+1. Not so sure 36654, many people were not drafted due to their occupation...coal miners by the thousands were not....coal powered our war efforts. It was a different time...too bad but different expectations today. Plus, we don't do near as well when our opponent doesn't wear a uniform. I do believe they are the greatest generation as per the context of Tom Brokaw's book.

My Dad wasn't drafted during WWII because he was a Tool & Die maker working for Ford. I understand folks like him were used to help create machines/planes/weapons, etc. to help out the war effort.

 

[motodan]

Elvis on that list, or was that a movie he did?

Even made rank...think he was 10 years old during WW2..

 

[SCBuckeye]

Kevin,

Thanks, so much, for helping me once again to remember the "Greatest Generation."

As a young boy in the mid-50's, I remember going to the the Armistice day parades and seeing the high school bands, back then still wearing military style uniforms and playing Sousa marches. Even as a small boy, the experience brought pride to me, and made me anxious to serve. I eventually couldn't as I tried to join all 4 branches, but was rejected because of a serious injury I sustained in an accident as a 6 year old.

However, the feeling is still with me, and I tried to raise my 4 kids accordingly. Perhaps one of my greatest joys was to share my feelings with my youngest son as we, last spring, rode our BMW's to Washington DC (and other historical places like Philadelphia's Christ Church where 7 of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence are buried, most famous: Ben Franklin), and both of us were present for the Memorial Day celebration at Arlington, and were literally 4 feet away as we spent several hours at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier watching the "changing of the Guard."

It was a thrill in more than one way! Also, seeing the several war memorials, WWII, and the Viet Nam wall made me tear up. I wasn't worthy to be there!

Thanks for your post.

 

[36654]

to help out the war effort.

Auto production was ceased in February 1942 and all facilities were dedicated to armament production. I think, 1946 was the first year of the return to commercial production.

 

[cehlbeck]

Since this is the MOA forum, here's a little "factoid" about Jimmy Stewart being on the list. He was even the base commander for a while at Dobbins Air Force Base in Marietta, Georgia (which is near to me). Now there's a BMW Motorcycle dealer at the end of the runway.

 

[36654]

Even made rank...think he was 10 years old during WW2..View attachment 43216

Military.com has a running list of famous Veterans.....

http://www.military.com/topics/famous-veterans/page/1

It's a broad spectrum from Steinbrenner to Jimi Hendrix

 

[jgr451]

My son, a Canadian soldier,served two tours in Afghanistan, yes, with the Canadian Army, not under US command. He survived and came home.

I just read a history of the battle for Ortona, fought entirely by the Canadian Army. One survivor said fifty years later,"I lost all my friends there.I have never had friends like that since then."
Battle separates men from the ordinary. The "stars" cited by Kevin probably felt the same way. Some people think differently, that there was an aura of glory about those men who outlived their friends, through sheer chance. They probably all just feel lucky.And sad about their lost friends.

 

[chewbacca]

The Worst Generation

There are a lot of young kids in Iraq and Afghanistan who live up to the traditions of the "Greatest Generation." BUT, all in all, this generation pretty much sucks.

Somebody needs to do some homework on John Wayne. He did EVERYTHING he could with the studio bosses to keep himself out of the military. John Wayne is a myth. All the big stars were able to get into the military, not necessarily to fight but in many cases just to support the war effort doing rear echelon publicity.

 

[greenwald]

My son, a Canadian soldier,served two tours in Afghanistan, yes, with the Canadian Army, not under US command. He survived and came home.

I just read a history of the battle for Ortona, fought entirely by the Canadian Army. One survivor said fifty years later,"I lost all my friends there.I have never had friends like that since then."
Battle separates men from the ordinary. The "stars" cited by Kevin probably felt the same way. Some people think differently, that there was an aura of glory about those men who outlived their friends, through sheer chance. They probably all just feel lucky.And sad about their lost friends.

Amen.

And say "Thanks" to your son from a USA father of a grunt.

 

[barryg]

Had a uncle who flew in the US Air Corps and Air Force WWII, Cold War thru 1960. Flew a secret mission over the Arctic Circle 1952 spying on the USSR. Wrote a short story book on those events. Franz Joseph Islands being the area surveilled. Do a web search on Roy E. Kaden, to find it. Neat read if your into the Cold War,or spy missions. This preceded the U2 Russian over flights and the Gary Powers incident. He was a part of the Greatest Generation.