In Awe of the Greatest Generation

[kantuckid]

Kevin, near the bottom of your OP your wrote " Would someone please remind me how many of today's Hollywood and sports elite put their careers on hold to enlist in Iraq or Afghanistan?

I believe there is presumption there that THEY SHOULD have put their careers on hold to participate in these more recent wars if they physically could do so. I think you are also presuming the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (Vietnam?) are equivalent to WW II as necessary to preserving the freedom of the US and its European allies. (Please correct me if my presumptions are wrong.)

Many young Americans, famous or not, but who now have the choice to serve or not, decided that putting their lives on the line for these wars was a bad idea. That is just a fact. I suspect that any debate here about how right/wrong American presence in these various wars the US was/is in will get this thread killed. No politics on this forum.

I respect the choice that many have made to join the US armed services. They thought the government was right, wanted to serve, and maybe needed the after-service benefits. I deeply regret so many losses of lives, limbs and minds.

I appreciate your candor & attempt to not step on toes here. However-FWIW, & I'm also trying to avoid political statements, controversy here: I can assure you my kids did not join the military in some simple minded "the government is always right" sort of choice. They are complex thinkers that have their own private opinions about wars,politics & many other subjects. "Thought the government is right" is wrong to place on the forehead of those that serve! It's more complicated than that. Try again or stay away from the point as it only gets (more) political from there.
I'm reminded in this thread of the career seminar I set up for my HS students in early 2000's. I was able to included various professionals to include MD's, nurses, engr's,social workers,artists, you name it. Also invited were the Army & Air Force ROTC people from some local university programs. My thinking was (based on personal experience with enlisted & commissioned service) that kids needed to view the non enlisted side of the military which was on display often via military recruiters that come into HS everyday. One of the ladies I worked with from board office got highly ticked off that ANYONE!!! from the military was there! No, some people from Hollywood or even eastern KY do not like the military nor do they respect those who serve even now. It is a volatile subject, to say the least. This will not change anytime soon as we continue our military presence abroad.

 

[greenwald]

Having patiently observed the chaotic and often toxic reactions to my "tip of the hat to the Greatest Generation," the optimist in me perceives a silver lining:

At least, we 'baby-boomers' will never suffer the weight of such a title, nor the burden of defending it (not that our cultural and moral track-record ever could).

Compared to those who saved an entire world from tyranny, we are but a footnote in global history.

 

[GILLY]

I had an uncle who was too old for WW2 but he wanted to do something for the war effort, so he somehow got hired to be trained as a steamfitter and was working at Pearl after the attack. He never really talked about it much, but became pretty abusive of alcohol. What my aunt did learn is that there were still dead soldiers in some of the ships he was working on (some of the ships that were raised), and of course even for soldiers there just was little that was done for them psycologically after the war, much less someone working in a shipyard. After he was done doing that he worked on the Hanford Site in Bremerton WA. They had no idea what they were working on, just that it was for the war effort:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanford_Site
My mom was busy having kids back then, she turned 93 a couple months ago (I am 7th of 8 kids). Funny story; after she had her first kid (my oldedst sister Barbara, born Christmas Day 1941) she was having trouble getting rid of the extra weight. She asked the Dr for advice and he said "have you ever considered taking up smoking, that seems to reduce people appetite". She said she tried it but never liked it so never took it up.
Bu tone thing that really is sad is how she knows how many males of her class of 1938 didn't amke it through WW2, something like 1/4 or 1/3. After that experience, she just seemed to think that we in this time don't really know how terrible war can be in terms of lives lost, it just doesn't compare she says.

 

[36654]

I had an uncle who was too old for WW2 but he wanted to do something for the war effort, so he somehow got hired to be trained as a steamfitter and was working at Pearl after the attack. He never really talked about it much, but became pretty abusive of alcohol. What my aunt did learn is that there were still dead soldiers in some of the ships he was working on (some of the ships that were raised), and of course even for soldiers there just was little that was done for them psycologically after the war, much less someone working in a shipyard. After he was done doing that he worked on the Hanford Site in Bremerton WA. They had no idea what they were working on, just that it was for the war effort:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanford_Site
My mom was busy having kids back then, she turned 93 a couple months ago (I am 7th of 8 kids). Funny story; after she had her first kid (my oldedst sister Barbara, born Christmas Day 1941) she was having trouble getting rid of the extra weight. She asked the Dr for advice and he said "have you ever considered taking up smoking, that seems to reduce people appetite". She said she tried it but never liked it so never took it up.
Bu tone thing that really is sad is how she knows how many males of her class of 1938 didn't amke it through WW2, something like 1/4 or 1/3. After that experience, she just seemed to think that we in this time don't really know how terrible war can be in terms of lives lost, it just doesn't compare she says.

Your geography is a bit off. Bremerton is up near Tacoma, on the peninsula side of the sound. Hanford is in the south central part of WA along the Columbia River. If your Uncle was a steamfitter, he could have worked at either Hanford or the Bremerton (Puget Sound) shipyard.

 

[36654]

Having patiently observed the chaotic and often toxic reactions to my "tip of the hat to the Greatest Generation," the optimist in me perceives a silver lining:

At least, we 'baby-boomers' will never suffer the weight of such a title, nor the burden of defending it (not that our cultural and moral track-record ever could).

Compared to those who saved an entire world from tyranny, we are but a footnote in global history.

Baby boomer: People born between 1946 and 1964.

I'm going to give those folks born before 1952 a pass. IMHO, Vietnam seemed like enough of a test for any generation.

For the rest of us, I guess we'll be the same type of nameless souls that populated the country between the Revolutionary and Civil Wars and then between the Civil War and WW-II.

 

[basketcase]

I think the "greatest generation" is seen as such in hindsight, and in view of the tasks they achieved under duress, with limited resources, and for a cause larger than their selves.

Human nature and need, and courage and the willingness to step up are consistent across all generations. Locally I know of a dozen men my age (myself included) who, in the days after 911, sought to go back into the USMC only to be turned away.

But those who were not turned away were the hundreds and thousands of young men and women between the ages of 18 and 25 that were literally lined up outside the recruiting office doors to enlist.

Their sacrifices are as great, and in some cases more damaging than those faced by their grandfathers. As are the adjustments they face when they return home.

My hat is certainly off to the greatest generation, and to the generations following them who share the warrior ethos and commitment to the common good.

 

[kantuckid]

There are a lot of young kids in Iraq and Afghanistan who live up to the traditions of the "Greatest Generation." BUT, all in all, this generation pretty much sucks.

Somebody needs to do some homework on John Wayne. He did EVERYTHING he could with the studio bosses to keep himself out of the military. John Wayne is a myth. All the big stars were able to get into the military, not necessarily to fight but in many cases just to support the war effort doing rear echelon publicity.

That was my purpose in stirring the pot about Wayne-see my comparison of him to my uncle with 4 kids & drafted @ 38 yrs old!
Touchy business to throw a whole generation under the bus unless they fit into the mold? I have 3 sons, two that served long & hard, the other had two ACL's & they didn't like his physical, plus there was no scholarship money left over for him in ROTC at time he applied-he's a great kid & contributes to society much the same as his own brothers. I'll add that he has some great friends , many of which did not serve, others that did. I respect service to our country greatly but not as the only denominator for what makes a good citizen?

 

[kantuckid]

"This is painfully just not true! However, they DID preserve the world from Socialists who literally mass-murdered over 6 million Jews and many hundreds of thousands of others."

How so ? none of the 'rights' I mentioned were law or even observed in the 30's-40's-50's...etc There was no political correctness,...The generation of those days lived pretty much as i described...

So, your gonna place the wrongs of our society over many years in the USA on the personal backs of everyone that lived during that time? This is ridiculous. I lived then. When I saw these things it was not within my power to change the world overnight, only over time and by effort & personal example.

 

[kantuckid]

Elvis was already quite the celebrity and rising fast, and earning a fortune, and could have had his draft selection quashed but he did not ever consider doing that. Those years in Germany cost him a fortune. My brother in law was his replacement in his unit in Germany when Elvis came stateside.

Wish somebody would draft Justin Bieber. He's 19, the age of most troops that served in our wars.

Please don't put him in our military... please...

 

[akbeemer]

Please don't put him in our military... please...

Nope. I think he'd be a better fit in Canada's own Princess Patricia Canadian Light Infantry. I'll wager they will affect an attitude change.

 

[71243]

So, your gonna place the wrongs of our society over many years in the USA on the personal backs of everyone that lived during that time? This is ridiculous. I lived then. When I saw these things it was not within my power to change the world overnight, only over time and by effort & personal example.

I think you mis-read me? In those decades , during that generation what I pointed out was just their way of life. It wasn't [wrong] it just was. And that generation became known as the greatest generation. Now the way they lived , the things they did is suddenly scoffed. Name one thing I pointed out that was wrong , or didn't happen. My point is maybe some things from that generation were correct and we should learn from them....after all they are considered the greatest. How wrong can it be to emulate the greatest?

 

[36654]

I think you mis-read me? In those decades , during that generation what I pointed out was just their way of life. It wasn't [wrong] it just was. And that generation became known as the greatest generation. Now the way they lived , the things they did is suddenly scoffed. Name one thing I pointed out that was wrong , or didn't happen. My point is maybe some things from that generation were correct and we should learn from them....after all they are considered the greatest. How wrong can it be to emulate the greatest?

You are being far too rhetorical. But, it was a point well made.

As a society, we are a work in progress...always have been, always will be.

 

[71243]

You are being far too rhetorical. But, it was a point well made.

As a society, we are a work in progress...always have been, always will be.

"You are being far too rhetorical. "...I'm sorry ?




"But, it was a point well made.".....some missed it?

 

[brewmeister]

My father was a greatest generation member.He graduated from highschool in 1944 and went into the navy.He served on a wooden hull mine sweeper built right here in Wisconsin.When japan surrendered his group of ships cleared mines between japan and austraia,6 months at sea then shore leave again and again.Him and his buddies rented a coal gas fired pick-up truck from a local japanese farmer for 4 Hershey candy bars.The truck started on gas then switched to coal gas.He had a Kodak box camera my grandmother sent him with film.Wow what awesome pictures he took! To bad the military didn't warn service members about radioactive fallout.The photos he took of Nagasaki ground zero became cloudy around the edges.They are in a museum in new York city somewhere.I'm not sure where anymore.most of his buddies passed away from various forms of cancer 20 to 30 years later.I miss him dearly but I was blessed with 27 years at the time of his passing and I didn't pick up my new R100RS in time before he passed away in 1984 on mothers day..He did really like my 77 100/7 like when I had a eagle sidecar on it for 3 years and used to give the whole family rides when we had a family reunion get-together in summer.
Generations change and there is little you can do to change things because change is the only thing we can all look forward to.

 

[EvryDayRide]

Having patiently observed the chaotic and often toxic reactions to my "tip of the hat to the Greatest Generation," the optimist in me perceives a silver lining:

At least, we 'baby-boomers' will never suffer the weight of such a title, nor the burden of defending it (not that our cultural and moral track-record ever could).

Compared to those who saved an entire world from tyranny, we are but a footnote in global history.

Your "tip of the hat" shows great respect to a group of people that well deserve it. Their numbers are dwindling rapidly. If you know a WWII or Korean War vet talk to them now and learn what you can? Before long they will all be gone and so will the stories that changed their lives forever!!!!!

 

[SeabeckS]

Your "tip of the hat" shows great respect to a group of people that well deserve it. Their numbers are dwindling rapidly. If you know a WWII or Korean War vet talk to them now and learn what you can? Before long they will all be gone and so will the stories that changed their lives forever!!!!!

+1, to ALL of that!

 

[kantuckid]

I think you mis-read me? In those decades , during that generation what I pointed out was just their way of life. It wasn't [wrong] it just was. And that generation became known as the greatest generation. Now the way they lived , the things they did is suddenly scoffed. Name one thing I pointed out that was wrong , or didn't happen. My point is maybe some things from that generation were correct and we should learn from them....after all they are considered the greatest. How wrong can it be to emulate the greatest?

Your welcome & let's agree that we are (somewhat) on the same page... It's simply not possible to paint generational pictures with a "broad brush".
As to the "learn their stories" comments, r.e., the greatest generation, being of the war baby generation, I came to know lots of those people as they were the adults in my life.All my parents, relatives,teachers,coaches, neighbors,coworkers,various mentors,fellow soldiers, were of this group. A few were even amongst "my residents"(as in convicts) when I worked in a prison. Far too many have carried their "stories" to the grave as not what they wanted to talk about. My Dad was amongst that group & virtually never talked about his 82nd AB combat. he did talk lots about the time he spent in France ,after the war & while living with a French family. They sent him a Christmas card each year for all my childhood & always had a silk handkerchief inside. One uncle, having been drafted & sent to Alaska to build docks @ age 38, in the Navy, loved to talk about it as was, I suppose, a sort of "government forced reprieve" from duties back home as a father of 4 young boys & hard work everyday as a carpenter. Another uncle was a pro boxer prior to Navy enlistment where he continued his other trade as a baker. The Navy moved him throughout the Pacific during WWII, as he was matched against various other boxers in a morale effort. I have a picture of him during a sojourn on Guam ( war time, not after !) living in a beach tent & bare breasted "native women" in their midst. His war was far removed from the war my Father experienced. Many of my school friends lost their father.

 

[71243]

Your welcome & let's agree that we are (somewhat) on the same page... It's simply not possible to paint generational pictures with a "broad brush".

Well...can't agree to the "broad brush" comment. As what I pointed to was just the way it was in those decades, and linked together those decades create the generation. It wasn't until the early 60's that 'noticeable' change started.

Think about the wars...In WWll the Germans were known as "Krauts" the Japanese were known as "Nips" and the Koreans were known as "Gooks"......if you use that sort of language in public today...people look at you like you like you are an Ax murderer. ....Just words, that in the 40's & 50's were the norm....the language of the Greatest Generation. The generation that literally changed the world....perhaps saved it?

My point being,..the warm & fuzzy approach is perhaps not always the best.

 

[akbeemer]

We seem to be limiting our discussion of the "Greatest Generation" to their involvement in WWII. Given that the bulk of the load in WWII was carried by those that were 18-30 years of age, that means that these same people were in their 50s and 60s in the 1960-70s. That is when they would be at the peak of their power and influence in their chosen professions. These were the people who were our leaders at the height of the civil rights movement, gave us the voting rights act, put man on the moon and many other achievements. Many of their accomplishments advanced our society, some were tragic, after all they gave us fast food (it is hard to get into the reletive merits of many of their actions without getting overly political). It is always easy to pick out the flaws of those in the past. I wonder what people will think of my generation fifty years from now. Well there is the iPhone.

 

[36654]

We seem to be limiting our discussion of the "Greatest Generation" to their involvement in WWII. Given that the bulk of the load in WWII was carried by those that were 18-30 years of age, that means that these same people were in their 50s and 60s in the 1960-70s. That is when they would be at the peak of their power and influence in their chosen professions. These were the people who were our leaders at the height of the civil rights movement, gave us the voting rights act, put man on the moon and many other achievements. Many of their accomplishments advanced our society, some were tragic, after all they gave us fast food (it is hard to get into the reletive merits of many of their actions without getting overly political). It is always easy to pick out the flaws of those in the past. I wonder what people will think of my generation fifty years from now. Well there is the iPhone.

History is a series of boring periods punctuated by spasms of activity. The "greatest" generation coincided with one of those active periods. When the greatest generation were children, the prior greatest generation would have been what?