• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

  • Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.

    The Election forum is here: Election Forum

How BMW Canada made an owner an enemy

Frostback

Frostback
BMW Canada has made an enemy

I need to preface this with the following ÔÇô I grew up at a time when companies built reputation on quality product, fair business dealing and sincere service.

In 2007 I shopped around North America for a used BMW F650. As it turns out, the best deal, by almost $1800 was in Bend, Oregon so I bought it, had a nice ride back to my current home in Canada (I am a dual citizen). With one phone call and an ask, BMW Canada was happy to fax me a one pager saying there were no outstanding recalls on the bike and I registered it without a problem.

Fast forward to 2011. I looked around North America, without a country bias, for the best deal on a R1200GS and found one in Cheyenne, Wyoming that was $4300 cheaper than EdmontonÔÇÖs best price. I bought it and had a nice ride home. BMW Canada will not send a free recall letter to the Canadian Government. The original dealer in Wyoming searched the original data base and wrote a nice official letter on letterhead specifying that this US spec. BMW had no outstanding recalls on it. The Import folks would not accept that and said it had to come from a Canadian BMW dealer (who would access the identical data base).

Now the rub. The local BMW shop would have to make the 2 minute phone call but they charged $525.00 for the letter of recall. I asked why and they said it was to force Canadians to buy Canadian motorcycles instead of going south of the border. A $30 service fee would have been fine but not $525. Yes, it is within their rights to do this just as it is within their rights to charge an extra 20% for retail but it is very punitive, very bottom line, not about service or brand loyalty or cultivating a long term relationship. It is also within my rights to put this word out.

It is really none of their business where I buy my bikes unless it is from them. These are used bikes. If I was buying new I would have shopped locally for reasons of warranty, service and dealer loyalty. As it is, I used to spend a lot of money at that dealership on parts. That is over. I am actively avoiding them from now on. I will buy parts on line, from the boneyard or have them shipped inside the US where I will pick them up when on travel.

I like these German bikes quite a lot. I have little use for the Canadian interpretation (This happens at the level of BMW Canada but the local dealers fall right into it too) and marketing of the marquee and materiel.

I vow to actively avoid them to the extent I am able and I will be an advocate against the behaviors I have seen them display. Opportunism, gouging, predatory framing of regulations or non-customer-centered behavior needs to be outed and shown to be unacceptable and the best two ways I know to do this is to not patronize them and encourage others to do likewise.

Ironically, the Canadian dollar was higher than the US but it was still worth $2500 for me to do the deal in the US after all taxes, registrations, and recalls.

Lee
 
If that was the dealer policy, i'd be pissed too. Could it be the Government is somehow recommending or forcing them into such an anti-consumer policy? Hard to see how they could do that.
 
Maybe related , maybe not , but when I bought my new '11 R1200RT I had to sign a paper stating that I was not exporting the bike to Canada. BMW N/A and BMW Canada are separate companies, neither of them manufactures motorcycles, they each buy bikes from BMW and then are responsible for the advertising and warranty costs for the bikes they sell. So when you buy a bike from another country, BMW in your country may or may not honor the warranty on your bike as they didn't get the profit on that bike to offset warranty expense. Your dealer may been in the middle of this one too many times already and is expressing his frustration. How you choose to punish him for punishing you is for you to decide. Coming from a car dealership point of view I understand his frustration but not necessarily his actions. Keep in mind he already has $525 of yours and that's probably more profit than he'd make off of you in a year. I worked at an american car dealer and cars that people imported from Canada had no warranty unless they were the original owner and the car spent at least a year in Canada before coming to the U.S.. This was deemed a legitimate case of the owner relocating to the U.S. not someone who jumped the border to get a better deal. Canadians who traveled to the U.S. on vacation or business were given warranty as a gesture of "good will". I am not taking sides here just trying to offer insight on to your dealers attitude.
 
So how does BMW get away with this in Europe then - United Kingdom, Denmark, and Sweden have thus far decided not to convert to the euro. On the other hand, Andorra, Kosovo, Montenegro, Monaco, San Marino, and the Vatican City are not EU members but do officially use the euro as their currencies.
 
If that was the dealer policy, i'd be pissed too. Could it be the Government is somehow recommending or forcing them into such an anti-consumer policy? Hard to see how they could do that.

It has absolutely nothing to do with government policy. Government importation rules require the recall clearance letter; BMW decided to attach an outrageous fee to providing it.

It is BMW corporate policy, trying to protect their dealers by making it costly/inconvenient to buy from the US. The reason they are trying to protect their dealers is that they screw over the Canadian consumer by charging about a 15% higher MSRP in Canada than in the US.

When the Canadian dollar was worth 30% less than the US dollar, taking into account the exchange and the 15% premium, BMW bikes were actually cheaper in Canada than the US. Now the Canadian dollar is worth more than the US dollar, it is significantly cheaper to buy in the US. The recall clearance letter fee is BMW Canada's penalty for not buying from a Canadian dealer.

Now the flip side; I just had my dealer go to bat for me with Motorrad Canada on an out-of-warranty bike. They got BMW corporate to provide $1800 dollars of parts without charge. With that kind of service I will continue to support my local Canadian dealer.
 
Rinty - Thanks for the link. I am relatively new to this fold and hadn't uncovered that one. Seems I am not the first to run afoul of this policy. There is a great post on Max's BMW helping Canadians skirt this nonsense. I have great regard for that place as they helped me out once with parts and advice when I was on the road and needed to rebuild some parts of my F650.


Some have said this is futile. I think I may LIKE tilting windmills. Idealism is greatly underrated these days. It feeds into a bad habit of falsely presuming a personal relationship carries some weight in financial deals with corporations (no conscience, no corpus), employers (different sets of priorities), and broad sectors of society (too diverse).

It is the cognitive dissonance of BMW trying to simultaneously court us as buyers and screw us a participants in the market - their International BMW sales distribution - that has so rapidly eroded my regard for them. I just needed the wake up call that this recall letter business is hard ball negotiation and reflective of their corporate mentality. So, now it is game on from my side as well. I used the term "enemy" deliberately as BMW has shown me their true colours here and the relationship with customers (parts and service only in my case) is primarily one of adversarial profiteering and much less one of service and a long term business relationship. Clearly they have thought this through and made a rational economic decision to try to sway importation. There is a class action suit on ADV Rider and a good thread on this topic.

I have never owned a H*rley or wanted to but I have heard many testimonials about the culture of HD treating their customers like gold and even extending that largess to BMW owners in need of an emergency tire or repair. It is a compelling way of doing business. It made me nostalgic for that book we discussed some time back "Shop class as soul craft" where the small motorcycle repair business owner charges a fair wage and works with a conscience. I guess if H*rley makes enough profit up front on the sale they can afford to do that. I would have thought BMW maintained a similar profit margin.

A good argument what I would take away from Sedanman's insight, would say "Look at it from BMW's perspective - this fits their desired end" . Agreed. Now, I use the tools at my disposal to make sure such private taxation is less attractive to them and maybe their stance will change. Maybe not, but as a parent, teacher and dog trainer I can't bring myself to reward bad behavior.

Lee
 
One question for you, Lee -- did the dealership charge $525 because BMW Canada told them to charge that much or did they charge that much because they could? The reason I ask is because the reason I don't own a BMW any longer is that I became very unhappy with Argyll's service department. I would actually call BMW Canada and find out what their fee for this actually is.
 
So how does BMW get away with this in Europe then - United Kingdom, Denmark, and Sweden have thus far decided not to convert to the euro. On the other hand, Andorra, Kosovo, Montenegro, Monaco, San Marino, and the Vatican City are not EU members but do officially use the euro as their currencies.
In Europe the waranty is valid in all EU countries. I'm not sure is Andorra and the Vatican have BMW dealers... ;) Monaco is a seperate country, but for a lot of the legal and governemental stuff, it relies on France. It could well be that they have the same consumer law as the rest of the EU.

But until a couple of years ago, the countries of the EU were also using shady laws and regulations to make it less attractive to buy a car/motorcycle in another country. Even secondhand was problematic. What they did was using the manufactoring date as the date of first registration of the vehicle. What this means is that when your car is build on Jan 10, 2010 and you import it as a brandnew car, first owner into the Netherlands on Mar 10, 2011, the date on your registration will read Jan 10, 2010. This costs you money when you want to sell your car again, since it's officially nearly a year older. And the manufactoring date of a vehicle is often months before it is sold. Fortunately, they scrapped that regulation a couple of years back.
 
Bubbagazoo -

I talked to BMW Canada and indirectly to Blackfoot and they all said the same thing. $500 for a letter request from an authorized dealer. Everyone points the finger at someone else. Argyll says BMW Canada requires it; BMW Canada says it is up to the Dealer; RIV says the letter must come from a Canadian source, even though the BMW dealer in Missouri accessed the same database and put the OK on letterhead.

I am still cooling off but will eventually send a letter of disappointment to BMW Canada and copy to Argyll. They did mention that they would honor my warranty if I had problems but I will do the warranty maintenance myself so I learn it and know it is done either right or the mistakes are my own.

Lee
 
Lee:

I would send a letter to Denis Lebel, Minister of Transport, copying RIV and BMW Canada. Tell him that RIV is not evenly applying its own protocols. I would keep it short and sweet, and avoid getting into a philosophical discussion of American v. Canadian business, as that will just sidetrack the discussion.

You never know how they will respond and, in any event, the letter can't do any harm.
 
Not to hijack the thread, But...When I feel that I have been wronged by a business I personally boycott them, (if possible) voting with my feet if you will.

I am not the type to make up signs and walk a picket line, or make a public scene, but I would like to find some way to let the business know of my displeasure and their loss of me as a customer (if they even care).

Sadly I suspect that a missing, no longer customer, fails to come up on the radar of most businesses.
 
Lee:

I would send a letter to Denis Lebel, Minister of Transport, copying RIV and BMW Canada. Tell him that RIV is not evenly applying its own protocols. I would keep it short and sweet, and avoid getting into a philosophical discussion of American v. Canadian business, as that will just sidetrack the discussion.

You never know how they will respond and, in any event, the letter can't do any harm.

By sending a letter to the Minister you will be involving quite a few people from the Minister's office down and create a lot of paperwork and headaches for all. It will not be the Minister who replies but the answer will be drafted by a minimum of 6-8 people ranging from technical staff, administrative staff, Director, Executive Directors, Deputy Minister and finally the Minister. Everyone needs to know what the other is doing.

I would suggest starting at your regional office and then work your way up instead of working your way down via the Minister.

Good luck.
 
By sending a letter to the Minister you will be involving quite a few people from the Minister's office down and create a lot of paperwork and headaches for all. It will not be the Minister who replies but the answer will be drafted by a minimum of 6-8 people ranging from technical staff, administrative staff, Director, Executive Directors, Deputy Minister and finally the Minister. Everyone needs to know what the other is doing.

I would suggest starting at your regional office and then work your way up instead of working your way down via the Minister.

Good luck.

When I was working and someone had a complaint about me or someone who worked for me, a letter or phone call to the president's office got a far quicker and better response than going up the ladder.
 
Fortuitously, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty has asked the Senate to look into the "irritating" price gap between U.S. and Canadian goods.

And the gap is at the heart of the RIV issue, so this is a good time to write.

...a far quicker and better response...

+1.

Always work your way down, from the top...:D
 
Last edited:
Back
Top