JERRYMCC10
New member
If you are referring to heat transfer and its effect on oil volatility, take a look at this paper from AMSOIL of product comparison results, including oil volatility:
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf
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Harley Davidson Motorcycle Oil
- Thread starter JERRYMCC10
- Start date
If you are referring to heat transfer and its effect on oil volatility, take a look at this paper from AMSOIL of product comparison results, including oil volatility:
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
I think the reference is to cooling the engine with the oil as a coolant. I think thin oil is better at that than thick oil. I was wondering if BMW changed their synth gear oil to 75W90 from 75W140 with that somewhat in mind. I wonder if one did an adiabatic test of the temp of an engine and tested the viscosity of 10W30 and 10W50 and would find that the vis stays quite similar at the hot end of the temps encountered because the engine might stay cooler with the thinner oil and thus the oil would not thin out as much as a heavier oil which allowed the engine to get hotter...follow that? That is, if you use heavier oil because you think your engine is going to get hotter, it may get hotter because you're using heavier oil.
Note that the Amsoil charts are all bar graphs which are quite misleading unless you read the numbers. All the bars would be about the same length if the full scale on the graph were 100%. They are useful to show the one bar is twice the other but twice what?...6% instead of 3%?...is that statistically significant?
Specs as well as brand
Your manual has the grades and viscosities recommended.
My BMW manual ('03 RT) has the following written in small print on the fuels and lubricants section: "BMW recommends Castrol products"
I found the following article interesting:
http://vfrworld.com/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm
As far as filters go, I have ordered Bosch filters from Bob's for about half the price as BMW. I have yet to use my first one; probably in a week or two. My bike calls for oil changes every 6K so I'd stick with something tried and true in the BMW community.
Your manual has the grades and viscosities recommended.
My BMW manual ('03 RT) has the following written in small print on the fuels and lubricants section: "BMW recommends Castrol products"
I found the following article interesting:
http://vfrworld.com/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm
As far as filters go, I have ordered Bosch filters from Bob's for about half the price as BMW. I have yet to use my first one; probably in a week or two. My bike calls for oil changes every 6K so I'd stick with something tried and true in the BMW community.
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
The car side has a deal with Castrol. The bike side, BMWNA, has a deal with Spectrol.
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
Ha. Just scratch it out and write BMW OIL in it's place.
deilenberger
A bozo on the bus
That - once again - is bad information. SH, SL are API (American Petroleum Institute) ratings. Jeff DeCarlo did a few wonderful studies of different oils about a decade ago for Motorcycle Consumer News. Although the specific data is out of date - the explanation of ratings and what they mean isn't. The ratings mean many things - but - AFAIK - none of them have anything to do with different refining techniques.
The primary difference between SH/SG rated oil and later (higher designations) is that in the fuel-economy rated oils (0W-30, 5W-30 - with the star like emblem) used by many automobiles the amount of extreme-pressure-lubricant was reduced for emissions purposes. These additives are things like zinc - they are intended to serve as a last-ditch-barrier against metal to metal contact IF the oil film breaks down due to high temps, wrong oil, low oil pressure.
AFAIK - the worry by BMW was if people used this sort of oil in a motorcycle engine, especially in the case of a boxer engine which doesn't have the same cooling characteristics as a K bike (water cooled) engine does - under extreme temperature conditions - the oil film/wedge in the connecting rod bearings could break down, and there wouldn't be enough extreme-pressure wear protector to prevent bearing damage.
I believe this is what BMW's thinking and reason for the recommendation was.
That said - how many people have heard of bearing failure on any BMW engine? It's about unknown AFAIK. Bearings or camshafts are where you'll first experience engine damage due to oil problems - and both - seem to be fairly stable. I have heard from a wrench who I trust (hi Anton!) that he saw one R100GS engine that suffered some lifter damage - which possibly could have been attributed to oil failure - or equally well to the engine running while on it's side which causes no oil pressure.
My take on it - while under warranty - I'll stick with BMW oil. It's not that awful in price.. although I may go with the very special oil they specify for my M3 BMW - it's a German Castrol oil, 10W-60 weight, called TWS oil. Price from a car dealer is about the same as BMW bike oil from the bike dealer. The TWS oil meets and exceeds all of BMW's motorcycle specs - and was specially developed for the extreme pressure on bearings in a 3.2L 344HP/8k RPM engine. Should work fine in a 1.157L 110HP/8K engine - HP per liter is almost identical.
After warranty is up? Mobil1 15W-50.
Your oil opinions will vary - I'd suggest doing a bit of searching on the IBMWR website for Jeff's original oil studies - then if you want to follow up on more detailed studies - contact Motorcycle Consumer News.
cjack
K Bikes Complex by Choice
I had some lifter damage in my '78 R100RS (Motorsport, by the way) back in the early '80s. I used Castrol multiweight something...10W50 or 40. The lifters had pieces gone on the face leaving little holes. I often wondered what caused that. The rest of the face was clean and shiny. No issues, just had it apart to put in better (or new) oil rings, guides and touch up the valves, etc. This engine used oil from the day I got it new to that time. About 500 to 700 miles on a quart on a trip.
Mr. Underwood, my dealer, and I rode out to Oregon in 1980 and I used up his extra two quarts of oil (he had a new '78 RS) and bought a quart along the way. When we were in a motel parking lot and he was changing his oil, he asked me wasn't I going to change my oil. I answered, "I already did". It wasn't often that you got the chance to terminate the conversation with a short answer to Mr. Underwood. He was usually the master of that.
MOTOR31
New member
At least 3 to 5 years back there was a wonderful study done about oil in the MOA News. There was a plethora of charts indicating the chemical breakdown of the oils and what they contain as well as a thorough explanation of the oil classification (SG SJ SH etc.) system used for the "grades" or oil and their intended uses. (I know that wasn't the proper term for that situation but CRS deleted the one I wanted to use.) I had to drop all of my back issues due to weight and storage considerations when we left the house behind.
It would be great if someone who has an old copy of that article could get it scanned and posted to some tech portion of the board for reference.
Keeping information like that as well as a "history" of the helpfull tech articles that are a pictorial as well as "how to do this" post we have seen from some other folks in the last year would be a great addition to the board.
It would be great if someone who has an old copy of that article could get it scanned and posted to some tech portion of the board for reference.
Keeping information like that as well as a "history" of the helpfull tech articles that are a pictorial as well as "how to do this" post we have seen from some other folks in the last year would be a great addition to the board.
O
osfrydr
Guest
Oil is Oily
Ah, the oil question, I gotta say, buy the right weight, ya can't be far off, esp. with engine only oil. I do buy MC oil for an all in one engine tranny bike.
I've worked in the oil industry many years, and a bottle will accept any print, and can and will be filled with oil from any manufacturer. As long as the specs are met, pour it in!!!!
Jim
Ah, the oil question, I gotta say, buy the right weight, ya can't be far off, esp. with engine only oil. I do buy MC oil for an all in one engine tranny bike.I've worked in the oil industry many years, and a bottle will accept any print, and can and will be filled with oil from any manufacturer. As long as the specs are met, pour it in!!!!
Jim
1
1analguy
Guest
Differences between H-D oils and others...I have no idea, but I will mention a very real difference between their engines (and, possibly, oil requirements?) and most other bike/car engines: H-D's V-Twins have almost no plain bearings in them. Almost all bearings are of the ball/roller/needle variety. Oil requirements, in terms of supply volumes & pressures, and oil characteristics, are different than they are for plain bearings.
Regarding heat (and that poor rear cylinder)...I've read some inside accounts on the development of the new TwinCam, which now has oil-cooling jets for the pistons. Ill-informed guys whine about their TCs "running hotter" than their old Evos. What's really happening is that the new engine has something like 40% more fin capacity than the old one and so sheds heat much more readily. They feel this "added" heat and think their engines are in danger. Personally, if I'm stuck in traffic I'd rather feel the heat on my leg than have it building up in that rear cylinder. Even with the better cooling of the new engine, H-D puts oil coolers on all their heavy touring bikes because they know that they're crowding the heat limits of their conventional oil on these bikes without cooling. I have the same engine in my Night Train (minus about 250 lbs of extra bike) with no cooler, but I run Mobil V-Twin synth anyway. I change it once a year in the fall, as I would any other oil, and it's much cheaper than adding a cooler...
Regarding heat (and that poor rear cylinder)...I've read some inside accounts on the development of the new TwinCam, which now has oil-cooling jets for the pistons. Ill-informed guys whine about their TCs "running hotter" than their old Evos. What's really happening is that the new engine has something like 40% more fin capacity than the old one and so sheds heat much more readily. They feel this "added" heat and think their engines are in danger. Personally, if I'm stuck in traffic I'd rather feel the heat on my leg than have it building up in that rear cylinder. Even with the better cooling of the new engine, H-D puts oil coolers on all their heavy touring bikes because they know that they're crowding the heat limits of their conventional oil on these bikes without cooling. I have the same engine in my Night Train (minus about 250 lbs of extra bike) with no cooler, but I run Mobil V-Twin synth anyway. I change it once a year in the fall, as I would any other oil, and it's much cheaper than adding a cooler...
