gunderwood
New member
This is going to be an odd thread. 
Background
My first bike is a 2009 F800ST and I'm loving riding it so much that I'm considering purchasing another bike to complement what I hope is a life-long growing stable. The "problem" I have is that the F800ST is IMHO a very good all-rounder with just a few tweaks, so that makes it hard to choose a second bike. I've kicked around quite a few ideas including sidecars, but think I've narrowed it down to two very different bikes and maybe a third.
I have no intention of getting rid of my F800ST and in either case it will probably remain my primary ride. I'm also young (<30), so I don't care much for the uber comfort of a big touring bike. They're nice bikes, but just not for me at this point.
HP2 Sport
I love the look and details on this bike. Plenty of power for the street, but way different than your run of the mill sport bike. Realistically it won't ever see a competitive race track; race things you don't care about breaking and IMHO this bike is too special to abuse. A "relaxed" and occasional track day is possible, but uncertain.
I view it as a special sport bike that in 20+ years is still special and fun to ride. Most other sport bikes seem almost disposable. I'm a bit of a romantic with special machines or at least what I think will be special and last. I love seeing the older bikes like the cafe racers, restored BMWs of all types, etc. It doesn't matter that they aren't fast by today's standards, they're a unique snapshot in time and history of technology. I think it is wonderful that people have restored or maintained the bikes from their youth...the only problem is that those aren't the bikes from my youth. The HP2 Sport is. Admittedly this is the rose colored glasses I view the HP2 Sport through and it's a large part of the appeal to me (feel free to challenge that view as that's the whole point of posting this). It's not a practical bike. It's something I'll ride 5-15 times a year for 100-300 miles a session tops. I.e. pull it out for a special ride. That brings me to the negative comment.
The limits of even my F800ST are so high relative to the legal speed which one can travel in this country (US) that some of the fun is compromised. Perhaps I'm an odd ball on this, but there is something very satisfying in driving/riding a sporty, lightweight, but relatively modest machine near the limits for those rare corners where it can be done reasonably safe. It's the reason I drive a stock S2000...sure I can go faster with mods or a better car, but it's more satisfying to drive that one well. That's part of what turns me off of the one liter sports bikes; their limits are so high that I can't think of anywhere to really enjoy them besides a competitive track event. The negative is that I think even the HP2 is well into this category without an autobahn. Thoughts?
I really like my F800ST and while it is a great bike, I don't think it's special like a HP2 Sport is; it's rare to see a company build and sell such a machine. The ST is a great ride, but it's a workhorse. There's no pomp and circumstance when you pull it out for a ride. As such, I plan on riding it into the ground...which could take quite some time!
R1200GSA
This thing looks like a tank on two wheels! It would make a better rally machine or two up than my F800ST, but the ST works fine in those instances even though the GSA is probably superior. The real draw for me is the dual sport nature of this bike. I live on the East coast and don't want to buy a truck to haul out a real dirt bike. I do like backpacking too so that adds to the draw of the GSA. The comments on this bike are short because I expect the draw to it is fairly self explanatory and there are lots of them around so forum experience is available. Not so much with the HP2 Sport.
The negative is that most of the roads around VA are basically fire/gravel roads and you don't really need a GSA to handle them. I've gone down plenty with just my ST. Granted I'm sure I could go much faster with the GSA. If I lived out west it would almost be a no brainer. However, being young, taking weeks off to travel the world probably isn't going to happen for a while. Besides, the watercooled engine is just around the corner which should help MPG and widen the torque curve even more. Throw in a couple of years to work out the kinks and I could probably buy it right after I finish paying for the HP2 Sport. Can't count on that though...you know, best laid plans of mice and men.
Norton Commando 961 Cafe Racer - Silver with Blk/red pin stripes
This is the maybe bike. Realistically it has much of the same draw as the HP2 Sport. Impractical, but sporty and classy. The cost difference really doesn't matter; if I'm going to get any of these bikes a few $k either way won't sway me. The Norton isn't as powerful or fast as the BMW, but there's that "ride a sorted but modest sport bike really well fun factor vs. going just as fast on a much more capable machine and knowing you left 70% of its capability on the table." The same sporting fun factor rather than "racing" that appeals to me on the HP2 over a 1L rocket despite being down 50HP is the same here. The torque of either engine is some great that absolute HP numbers don't matter IMHO.
Unlike the HP2's styling, it's already classic and there's not much doubt about how it will age. I think the HP2 will age well, but there is something cool about having a new bike that looks like a classic.
The negatives are no ABS and the engine is similar to the F800. Just like the HP2 Sport, I'd probably never intentionally ride it in the rain or on bad surfaces, but I don't wear gear expecting to crash either. The ABS is a nice safety net just in case. Not a deal breaker, but definitely a negative. The engine just doesn't seem to inspire me...yet (I've only seen pictures). As an engineer there's something neat about different configurations to solve the same basic problem. The boxer is way cool, the parallel twin the F800 is cool because of it's unique balancing mechanism and it was my first such bike. Somehow a second parallel twin just isn't as interesting. Perhaps I'd feel the same way about the HP2 Sport if I'd bought a boxer the first time around?
Long term dealer support is somewhat of a question. In fact, so is Norton's existence. Restarting a brand is a gamble.
Question
Realistically I won't buy until next spring, but I'm a planner. I'm looking for opinions on the bikes in general and insights on how I've evaluated them. If I had a lot more experience I'd be much more confident in my assessments, but that's why I'm posting. I've kicked the can around a lot and researched the bikes, but want to leverage the expertise here. Perhaps someone has a different viewpoint on the machines.
Background
My first bike is a 2009 F800ST and I'm loving riding it so much that I'm considering purchasing another bike to complement what I hope is a life-long growing stable. The "problem" I have is that the F800ST is IMHO a very good all-rounder with just a few tweaks, so that makes it hard to choose a second bike. I've kicked around quite a few ideas including sidecars, but think I've narrowed it down to two very different bikes and maybe a third.
I have no intention of getting rid of my F800ST and in either case it will probably remain my primary ride. I'm also young (<30), so I don't care much for the uber comfort of a big touring bike. They're nice bikes, but just not for me at this point.
HP2 Sport
I love the look and details on this bike. Plenty of power for the street, but way different than your run of the mill sport bike. Realistically it won't ever see a competitive race track; race things you don't care about breaking and IMHO this bike is too special to abuse. A "relaxed" and occasional track day is possible, but uncertain.
I view it as a special sport bike that in 20+ years is still special and fun to ride. Most other sport bikes seem almost disposable. I'm a bit of a romantic with special machines or at least what I think will be special and last. I love seeing the older bikes like the cafe racers, restored BMWs of all types, etc. It doesn't matter that they aren't fast by today's standards, they're a unique snapshot in time and history of technology. I think it is wonderful that people have restored or maintained the bikes from their youth...the only problem is that those aren't the bikes from my youth. The HP2 Sport is. Admittedly this is the rose colored glasses I view the HP2 Sport through and it's a large part of the appeal to me (feel free to challenge that view as that's the whole point of posting this). It's not a practical bike. It's something I'll ride 5-15 times a year for 100-300 miles a session tops. I.e. pull it out for a special ride. That brings me to the negative comment.
The limits of even my F800ST are so high relative to the legal speed which one can travel in this country (US) that some of the fun is compromised. Perhaps I'm an odd ball on this, but there is something very satisfying in driving/riding a sporty, lightweight, but relatively modest machine near the limits for those rare corners where it can be done reasonably safe. It's the reason I drive a stock S2000...sure I can go faster with mods or a better car, but it's more satisfying to drive that one well. That's part of what turns me off of the one liter sports bikes; their limits are so high that I can't think of anywhere to really enjoy them besides a competitive track event. The negative is that I think even the HP2 is well into this category without an autobahn. Thoughts?
I really like my F800ST and while it is a great bike, I don't think it's special like a HP2 Sport is; it's rare to see a company build and sell such a machine. The ST is a great ride, but it's a workhorse. There's no pomp and circumstance when you pull it out for a ride. As such, I plan on riding it into the ground...which could take quite some time!
R1200GSA
This thing looks like a tank on two wheels! It would make a better rally machine or two up than my F800ST, but the ST works fine in those instances even though the GSA is probably superior. The real draw for me is the dual sport nature of this bike. I live on the East coast and don't want to buy a truck to haul out a real dirt bike. I do like backpacking too so that adds to the draw of the GSA. The comments on this bike are short because I expect the draw to it is fairly self explanatory and there are lots of them around so forum experience is available. Not so much with the HP2 Sport.
The negative is that most of the roads around VA are basically fire/gravel roads and you don't really need a GSA to handle them. I've gone down plenty with just my ST. Granted I'm sure I could go much faster with the GSA. If I lived out west it would almost be a no brainer. However, being young, taking weeks off to travel the world probably isn't going to happen for a while. Besides, the watercooled engine is just around the corner which should help MPG and widen the torque curve even more. Throw in a couple of years to work out the kinks and I could probably buy it right after I finish paying for the HP2 Sport. Can't count on that though...you know, best laid plans of mice and men.
Norton Commando 961 Cafe Racer - Silver with Blk/red pin stripes
This is the maybe bike. Realistically it has much of the same draw as the HP2 Sport. Impractical, but sporty and classy. The cost difference really doesn't matter; if I'm going to get any of these bikes a few $k either way won't sway me. The Norton isn't as powerful or fast as the BMW, but there's that "ride a sorted but modest sport bike really well fun factor vs. going just as fast on a much more capable machine and knowing you left 70% of its capability on the table." The same sporting fun factor rather than "racing" that appeals to me on the HP2 over a 1L rocket despite being down 50HP is the same here. The torque of either engine is some great that absolute HP numbers don't matter IMHO.
Unlike the HP2's styling, it's already classic and there's not much doubt about how it will age. I think the HP2 will age well, but there is something cool about having a new bike that looks like a classic.
The negatives are no ABS and the engine is similar to the F800. Just like the HP2 Sport, I'd probably never intentionally ride it in the rain or on bad surfaces, but I don't wear gear expecting to crash either. The ABS is a nice safety net just in case. Not a deal breaker, but definitely a negative. The engine just doesn't seem to inspire me...yet (I've only seen pictures). As an engineer there's something neat about different configurations to solve the same basic problem. The boxer is way cool, the parallel twin the F800 is cool because of it's unique balancing mechanism and it was my first such bike. Somehow a second parallel twin just isn't as interesting. Perhaps I'd feel the same way about the HP2 Sport if I'd bought a boxer the first time around?
Long term dealer support is somewhat of a question. In fact, so is Norton's existence. Restarting a brand is a gamble.
Question
Realistically I won't buy until next spring, but I'm a planner. I'm looking for opinions on the bikes in general and insights on how I've evaluated them. If I had a lot more experience I'd be much more confident in my assessments, but that's why I'm posting. I've kicked the can around a lot and researched the bikes, but want to leverage the expertise here. Perhaps someone has a different viewpoint on the machines.
