Dgt = Gone

[mika]

Hijacking rant on:

Post 16 in this thread

This thread really disturbs me and how we treated a fellow member with his first post on the forum.

The opening post in this thread is over the top. It is not that difficult for me to understand after he had been ridiculed in the thread he was looking for. With about 10 posts to his name he gets ridiculed again for his perceived lack of posting skills.

In this current thread I have learned you canÔÇÖt troll but you can punk fellow members and get away with a half hearted mea culpa.

I spent almost no time in DGT and can not really comment on that. What concerns me in this discussion and the forum in general is how people are getting treated. Again I see a clear distinction between free speech and behavior. Writing a letter and mailing it can be an exercise in free speech. Wrapping it around a brick and throwing it through a window is not free speech it is bad behavior at best. There seem to be a lot of people throwing things around the forum of late and frankly very few of them seem to have frequented DGT as posters.

Hijacking rant off:

Carry on

 

[Bud]

True, It appeared as if you agreed with that sentiment. I apologize if you did not. It is easy to misinterpret things written here, as we are both finding out. You had stated you had several people on your ignore list, I don't have any. I am interested in everybody's opinion, whether I agree with them or not. Again, I apologize if I misinterpreted your comment to include everybody who posted in DGT. I figured after that whole fireworks thread, you didn't like me anymore.


No, I just don't take everything he says that seriously, as I am familiar with his viewpoints on things. Your viewpoints, I have no idea.


I can't speak for Red or Randy, and they don't speak for me either, but I didn't agree with the slimy rock analogy. It is obvious his comment was made in anger at the manner in which DGT was attacked and removed, as it wasn't public in any way shape or form.
I take responsibility for my actions, and I was hurt that people felt we were posting things that made members uncomfortable (especially the ladies, I guess I know why my images of love thread was mostly men), and they felt they couldn't tell me, and had to complain to a mod. I completely missed that part when Ian had the vote or I would have spoken up right there. Quite frankly, I see many opinions here that I don't agree with, but I wouldn't write to a mod demanding they be removed, but that's just me I guess.

An example I'll use is at the National in West Bend, some guy camped right by us went all the way up by the band found Sue and complained about our noise. Wouldn't it just have been simpler to just come over and tell us to be quiet? Did he really think a bunch of Beemer riders were going to start a fight?

It appears some have taken this more to heart than others, nor was I planning on disrupting the forum. My take on it was these threads would start appearing in the campfire section again, which is what annoyed people in the first place. I saw comments that people were angry about Karl turning in obviously drunk drivers. I would too, but if I chime in, I certainly won't change the guys mind that thought that was wrong. Some people don't even wear helmets, or have laced riding boots, whatya gonna do?

Sorry about the confusion, (BTW, I am glad I am not on your ignore list, Thank you.)

Thanks Roy. It is hard, when we are not face to face, to get the tone and inflection of statements.

I've watched with interest the development of this thread as it is a real study in human nature. And maybe because I'm also easily amused?

In order to not hijack this thread, PM me if you want to know who is on the list.

 

[Rapid_Roy]

Thanks Roy. It is hard, when we are not face to face, to get the tone and inflection of statements.

I've watched with interest the development of this thread as it is a real study in human nature. And maybe because I'm also easily amused?

Fair enough, That was why I posted in DGT.

In order to not hijack this thread, PM me if you want to know who is on the list.

I might be better off not knowing that, but thank you.
To be clear, I would enjoy talking to anybody (and I do) at any rally.
Race, Religion, Political beliefs,of said person are not used in judgement, just how they treat me in person.
See you on the road (well, not literally)

 

[oldhway]

Hijacking rant on:

Post 16 in this thread

This thread really disturbs me and how we treated a fellow member with his first post on the forum.

The opening post in this thread is over the top. It is not that difficult for me to understand after he had been ridiculed in the thread he was looking for. With about 10 posts to his name he gets ridiculed again for his perceived lack of posting skills.

In this current thread I have learned you canÔÇÖt troll but you can punk fellow members and get away with a half hearted mea culpa.

I spent almost no time in DGT and can not really comment on that. What concerns me in this discussion and the forum in general is how people are getting treated. Again I see a clear distinction between free speech and behavior. Writing a letter and mailing it can be an exercise in free speech. Wrapping it around a brick and throwing it through a window is not free speech it is bad behavior at best. There seem to be a lot of people throwing things around the forum of late and frankly very few of them seem to have frequented DGT as posters.

Hijacking rant off:

Carry on

I it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck. Even if it's not in the DGT. Strong point. I suppose the Winter Doldrums is partially responsibe, it seems like every winter people get edgy. When we are all out riding we tend to be less feisty.

In my time on DGT I had the oppurtunity to get to know some folks i might not have met otherwise. I also learned enough about them to begin to understand the nuance of their writing styles and that much of the discord in the discourse (always wanted to use that phrase) was because we took each other to seriously. I think the smileys per post ratio in DGT is higher than most. I don't think the vitriol was any more prevalent in DGT than in the post's that you sighted. Perhaps, considering the contentious nature of DGT subject matter, that can be viewed as a significant accomplishment.

Anyway, A fair sized group of folk are trying to put together a credible proposal to keep a DGT type post going. Your presence and forum experience would be a welcome addition.

 

[BRADFORDBENN]

Time for my comments...

As BeerTeam (Santa aka Jim) said, I have had to make a few moderation requests of a few people. However in the four years before Don't Go There, the amount of "Reported Posts" I got from people clicking on the "report post" button that things needed to be moderated could be counted on one hand. Unfortunately Santa's post was one of them.

During the brief tenure of DGT I received enough that I set up a rule to send those e-mails to my work address and segregate them in my incoming mail as they were "hot" enough that people had to look at them. Sometimes other moderators got to them, other times it was up to me. What amazed me was how rude people would be when I would ask for a person to make a modification, or warn a person about personal attacks. When other incidents occurred in other threads/forums it would be a simple process, and we would all move on along and still be buds. Just like Santa spelled out previously.

The amount of time and effort it took to moderate that little section of the forum was more than the whole rest of the forum put together.

 

[rkasal]

As BeerTeam (Santa aka Jim) said, I have had to make a few moderation requests of a few people. However in the four years before Don't Go There, the amount of "Reported Posts" I got from people clicking on the "report post" button that things needed to be moderated could be counted on one hand. Unfortunately Santa's post was one of them.

During the brief tenure of DGT I received enough that I set up a rule to send those e-mails to my work address and segregate them in my incoming mail as they were "hot" enough that people had to look at them. Sometimes other moderators got to them, other times it was up to me. What amazed me was how rude people would be when I would ask for a person to make a modification, or warn a person about personal attacks. When other incidents occurred in other threads/forums it would be a simple process, and we would all move on along and still be buds. Just like Santa spelled out previously.

The amount of time and effort it took to moderate that little section of the forum was more than the whole rest of the forum put together.

Many of the personal attacks were directed at me and that was ok. I never complained except for one that crossed the line and that wasn't to you. And, I never received a corrective email from you and only recall one corrective email to me at all. That was to change my copy of a quote that someone else had been asked to change. There was one request to change my sig line. There also may have been another mod request but I don't recall.

So, were the people complaining posters of DGT or were the people complaining lurkers and non-posters of DGT?

 

[statdawg]

I
Anyway, A fair sized group of folk are trying to put together a credible proposal to keep a DGT type post going. Your presence and forum experience would be a welcome addition.

I think a proposal is in order and with our collective input working as a team will only strengthen our relationship with each other. This whole venture is twofold to make a better forum and build teamwork which is in spirit of the MOA.

I recommend that a proposal be put on a word format to be emailed between those wishing to work on the proposal. Individually we can add to and take away from as we see fit. Once a draft is created then everyone will review it prior to the submission. Another option is to create a policy with a cover letter attached to summarize the proposal. It appears to me that the MOA will hear us as long as we are civil and follow protocol. If the system fails us then we will drop the DGT venture and see if the system needs to be changed.

Please keep in mind the big picture of the service to all members of the MOA. If DGT offends then it needs a special access with clear warnings. We also need to address the resources to be used and who wants to monitor the thread.

So who wants to start the proposal or should we use Dale's plan ? Should we word format it and send it to each member for review ?

 

[statdawg]

As BeerTeam (Santa aka Jim) said, I have had to make a few moderation requests of a few people. However in the four years before Don't Go There, the amount of "Reported Posts" I got from people clicking on the "report post" button that things needed to be moderated could be counted on one hand. Unfortunately Santa's post was one of them.

During the brief tenure of DGT I received enough that I set up a rule to send those e-mails to my work address and segregate them in my incoming mail as they were "hot" enough that people had to look at them. Sometimes other moderators got to them, other times it was up to me. What amazed me was how rude people would be when I would ask for a person to make a modification, or warn a person about personal attacks. When other incidents occurred in other threads/forums it would be a simple process, and we would all move on along and still be buds. Just like Santa spelled out previously.

The amount of time and effort it took to moderate that little section of the forum was more than the whole rest of the forum put together.

Thanks Brad, I did not realize that DGT was such a problem because I never received one negative email or PM since I posted there. My riding buddy Jon sent one PM but he sent a link for educational reasons. So for me I felt that I kept my part civil and feel the DGT should remain due to my perspective. I am also a little disturbed to be grouped together that we needed to be baby sat.

Now if these so caller rude people were such a problem then they should have been banned or dealt with accordingly. Again Brad this is just my opinion I can understand the resource issue as well.

BTW it is nice to see you posting. I know your work demands are incredible and I admire your service here as well for our sake. THANK YOU

 

[visian]

Out of everything I have written today and yesterday to have them summed up in your response of "it sucks" does nothing but inflame the issue.

In a sense, by dismissing the reasoning you are trolling for a fight, you are intentionally looking to piss me and others off. "it sucks" would work from the cheif bottle washer on ADV

But I simply expected somthing more than "it sucks" from you.

To sum total everything in the vulgarity of the term "it sucks" tells me lack of respect, and absolutely what I have to say has no value to you.

Take your "it sucks" ian over to where I have sent my roaches then maybe we could have a conversation.

please recall that the DGT started with a sticky that said "this is an experiment. if it sucks, we'll kill it."

so why are you surprised/offended that it was killed because... it sucks?

threats of lawsuits suck.

fears of stalking suck.

name calling sucks.

insulting another's integrity sucks.

brain dead partisan spew sucks.

threats of spoiling the experience for the rest of the community sucks.

no conversation is needed, at least with me. the conversation was held with everyone last month. if you don't agree with the decision, take it to the board as suggested here by others.

perhaps the next forum liaison will be more understanding and accommodating. i am out of here on february 23rd, 365 days after i took the job.

fwiw, i resigned on the day that i started and think that a 1 year term limit should be the policy for this position.

ian

forum liaison

 

[redclfco]

please recall that the DGT started with a sticky that said "this is an experiment. if it sucks, we'll kill it."

so why are you surprised/offended that it was killed because... it sucks?

threats of lawsuits suck.

fears of stalking suck.

name calling sucks.

insulting another's integrity sucks.

brain dead partisan spew sucks.

threats of spoiling the experience for the rest of the community sucks.

no conversation is needed, at least with me. the conversation was held with everyone last month. if you don't agree with the decision, take it to the board as suggested here by others.

perhaps the next forum liaison will be more understanding and accommodating. i am out of here on february 23rd, 365 days after i took the job.

fwiw, i resigned on the day that i started and think that a 1 year term limit should be the policy for this position.

ian

forum liaison

Yep it sounds like it's time to go. It's a tough job, but it's obviously been a battle; who created DGT anyway? Letting people speak their mind now looks like a pretty bad idea. I'm offended because you not only labeled the DGT with your "sucks" label, but you called me, and my opinion out in the same way, and there Ian, you crossed the line. Not nice, in fact mean.


Thanks for your efforts, but by the dark tone of this response, I think your tapped out. You should of left the shutting down of DGT to somebody with a better attitude, cause you have done nothing but dishearten those that used to have a more optimistic view of the BMWMOA. Right now? It seems it sure sucks.

 

[visian]

...you called me, and my opinion out in the same way, and there Ian, you crossed the line. Not nice, in fact mean.

sorry you are taking this personally, but the job of the forum liaison is to balance the needs of members, moderators and the board of directors for the purpose of furthering the club's interest.

speak your mind all you want, but when someone threatens to "disrupt the community" i gotta do my job.

that particular statement was a classic example of why DGT sucks.

ian

forum liaison

 

[redclfco]

sorry you are taking this personally, but the job of the forum liaison is to balance the needs of members, moderators and the board of directors for the purpose of furthering the club's interest.

speak your mind all you want, but when someone threatens to "disrupt the community" i gotta do my job.

that particular statement was a classic example of why DGT sucks.

ian

forum liaison

Ian,

yep just read it, and your right, I got carried away with my comparison to the roach. Tounge nad cheek comparison, but hind sight now tells me that your skin has been worn a little thin by all the battles... But does it deserve to be put in the same league as your other examples of why you are quitting? In fact me thinks your using me as a scapegoat here, the final straw that broke poor Ian's back, and that SUCKS!

You call that a threat? No way, your reaching for interpretation, your putting that roach comparison statement in the same league as your other woes as a liaison?


Litigation? Stalking?Beating somebody up? No way my little roach comment even registers in the same league! That was not in the spirit and you know it, your just beating up on me here, and I hope your enjoying it! Nobody else is there to take swat at, so swat at me!

Ian, your right. thanks for your service, but I agree with you. It's time to go.

 

[ted]

This is just getting weirder and weirder.

 

[JCABRANES]

sorry you are taking this personally, but the job of the forum liaison is to balance the needs of members, moderators and the board of directors for the purpose of furthering the club's interest.

speak your mind all you want, but when someone threatens to "disrupt the community" i gotta do my job.

that particular statement was a classic example of why DGT sucks.

ian

forum liaison

Please lets not take Randy's statement out of context. I don't think anyone believes that he threatened the community. To be fair to him what he was saying was that people want to discuss these issues and they will now start creeping into the other forums. Not to cause disruption but because people want to discuss these issues. That's the way I interpreted his statement and if you quote his entire post I think you'll see that's a reasonable interpretation.

 

[kreinke]

In the interest of full disclosure, since DGT has been thoroughly beaten to a piece of gelatinous dead equine, where were the threats of lawsuits leveled?

It also seems that the upper echelon at the MOA has already made the decision "not to disagree in front of the kids" and hold a firm line on this.

I for one somewhat see the logic of this but the "black helicopter cloak and dagger" stuff has got to stop.

As I said before, this has soured my opinion of das forum fuhrers (I mean that in a German way, not a Nazi way); almost to the point where I was checking out the BMWRA....only to find that the number of posts on their entire forum board equals the number of fingers and toes on my body. So this forum here still has some appeal to me as do Roy, Red, and some of the others I've met in person.

I began to realize the left/right tone of the DGT forum and were becoming hard to take. Why? Because I realized that I get enough of the Billary/Obama/Bush,etc crap at break on CNN at work. I came here to relax. DGT was not relaxing.

I guess my last post subject in DGT about the media and its transgressions was an attempt to have an intelligent conversation that nearly everyone of all political strips could agree on.

The tear gas and taser sting is wearing off. I'm ready to be a sheeple.

 

[visian]

Ian,

yep just read it, and your right, I got carried away with my comparison to the roach. Tounge nad cheek comparison, but hind sight now tells me that your skin has been worn a little thin by all the battles... But does it deserve to be put in the same league as your other examples of why you are quitting?

In fact me thinks your using me as a scapegoat here, the final straw that broke poor Ian's back, and that SUCKS!

glad you see, in restrospect, that you got a little carried away. your roach characterization did not factor, but a threat to disrupt our community is something i have to take seriously.

i think you missed the part where i resigned the day i started, effective one year from that day. my skin is just fine, thanks, but the policy should be that no one can have this job for more than one year.

ian

 

[rkasal]

Please lets not take Randy's statement out of context. I don't think anyone believes that he threatened the community. To be fair to him what he was saying was that people want to discuss these issues and they will now start creeping into the other forums. Not to cause disruption but because people want to discuss these issues. That's the way I interpreted his statement and if you quote his entire post I think you'll see that's a reasonable interpretation.

That wasn't me that wrote that one. I never threatened the community at all and didn't see anyone who did. The posting referred was written by another yet probably rightfullly described human nature.

 

[redclfco]

Attack of the roaches!

everybody better run!















disclaimer: no actual attack is being mounted, it's only a joke ONLY A JOKE YOUR COMMUNITY IS FINE!

 

[rkasal]

everybody better run!















disclaimer: no actual attack is being mounted, it's only a joke ONLY A JOKE YOUR COMMUNITY IS FINE!

Roaches of the World - Unite!

 

[visian]

To be fair to him what he was saying was that people want to discuss these issues and they will now start creeping into the other forums. Not to cause disruption but because people want to discuss these issues. That's the way I interpreted his statement and if you quote his entire post I think you'll see that's a reasonable interpretation.

thank you for your thoughts. i cannot agree with you.

if you want to continue discussing it, by all means, please do.

ian