Dgt = Gone

[From MARS]

Now hold on there. By the way, how was the ride?

We may have a moderator volunteer acceptable to all. I'll let him speak for himself if he so desires but he's ok by me. He got home late last night.

If he does accept as moderator, there would then be no valid reason to not retain DGT if we were told the truth.

One thing I think we don't want to get into is sending a letter for what we want when what we want is already known. Then we get a nice letter in return that "We in BMWMOA take our members' concerns seriously. Blah-Blah. You may rest assured we will take this concern/suggestion under advisement. Blah-Blah."

Nothing then happens except we get nice letters. Imagine them smiling nicely as the letter is written. You get the pictue.

We also collectively have had some great ideas to make this work. Keep the suggestions coming, please, in public. We may refine the ideas together and really, with a moderator, there is no reason for them to not bring back DGT. That is, if they really care about what members want.

Randy,
The ride was great, even if I did find myself looking at the world from a horizontal point of view after the wind (pretty consistent at 40mph w/gust to 50) and some gravel conspired to present me with proof that gravity was still working. But, anytime one gets to ride 2800 miles in 6 days without getting rained on or snowed on ( very much, anyway) thru some beautiful country and amongst friendly people, a good time will be had. BTW, I had no final drive problems or any other mechanical difficulties that weren't associated with the conspiracy. The ankle, which was caught under the bike when we went down, is much better. I will have a pair of riding boots that don't slip on for my next trip, though. Getting into a slip-on boot with a stiff, twisted ankle is painful.

I don't know to whom you are referring for the position of moderator for a DGT like forum, but if called upon, I would serve as such. Hell, I'm there reading anyway.

If we don't submit our request through proper channels, we will always be open to the charge that we didn't go through proper channels. However, as Sibud pointed out, we have an election coming up. There are three openings on the board, if memory serves. We should query the candidates on their position on this issue, and vote accordingly.

Tom

 

[statdawg]

Ian

Did the KTMs win ?

 

[redclfco]

the intent behind these words simply does not reflect the values of our club, nor does it further the interests of our club.

it just sucks.

ian

forum liaison

You made yourself clear. I am not welcome here. Thanks Ian, the mesage has landed.

You are one nice guy.

Dale

 

[visian]

You made yourself clear. I am not welcome here.

sorry you reached that conclusion, but we both know this isn't true.

ian

forum liaison


dawg: i need knobs.

 

[kbasa]

The trouble, Mr. Moderators is now those "men transformed to roaches" are going to be crawling over the rest of your site, multiplying over night, disrupting your fine community here at the BMWMOA. What to do now? Nothing?

Cause you refuse to give them a home...

Ah, c'mon, I thought it was funny.

 

[visian]

i musta missed the smilies.

 

[kbasa]

i musta missed the smilies.

I was referring to the roaches having a place to live.

 

[redclfco]

Out of everything I have written today and yesterday to have them summed up in your response of "it sucks" does nothing but inflame the issue.

In a sense, by dismissing the reasoning you are trolling for a fight, you are intentionally looking to piss me and others off. "it sucks" would work from the cheif bottle washer on ADV

But I simply expected somthing more than "it sucks" from you.

To sum total everything in the vulgarity of the term "it sucks" tells me lack of respect, and absolutely what I have to say has no value to you.

Take your "it sucks" ian over to where I have sent my roaches then maybe we could have a conversation.

 

[Rapid_Roy]

Roy! You got me confused, my friend! This old hick did not want to offend anyone!

I am one of the roaches, I thought that was clear. I am saddened that somebody (especially you) found offense in that analogy.

Roaches seemed to fit, and I'm not out there to offend, but it seems that those who used DGT had this in common with the roach, thus I have kept it up. Sorry. I was not calling anyone a name any more than I was leveling myself with the name.


I'm going to stop here, and disclaim myself. I apologise to anyone offended by the roach comparison, I will quit.

I will be open to working behind the scenes to reopen a place on the forum for free flow conversation and banter.

the end

No fear Red, I wasn't offended by your analogy at all. It just seemed that Sibud jumped on it as appropriate. I understand where you(Red) were going with that, but I am confused as to why he(Sibud) felt people who posted there were lower life forms. I also wonder if he felt that way about everybody, or just certain people. This written media doesn't transfer sarcasm or intent very well. Red, you are and always will be a friend.

Ian, I want to also thank you, and I understand the sucky part of the DGT. I am saddened that so many felt they had to complain about titles of threads without even bothering to read them, or that they felt so threatened by somebody's opinion. That doesn't seem to be in the BMWMOA spirit to me, but what do I know? Then again, many things I see posted here, I don't consider helpful to the BMWMOA spirit, but it's not my decision. Thank you and the other moderators for the effort.
I am also happy with the National locations.

 

[Rapid_Roy]

The offer to coordinate a discussion for the return of a DGT like forum has been meet with overwhelming apathy; two (2) people have expressed an interest. If we are willing to let it go, then let's just let it go. This thread should be allowed to pass into oblivion, and each participant can decide for themselves the action they will take next. Utilizing the resources of the club for such a small percentage of the membership, doesn't make good sense. As Roy said, "What's the point?"

I thought Dale's ideas held a lot of merit, and would have made an excellent starting point for discussions, but a discussion is hard to have without participants. So, RIP, DGT.

Tom

To be clear, I liked Red's ideas also. However, I feel that people will complain just because of it's existence. Look how many pm's were sent complaining about content and direction. Do you really think those same people won't make any noise if it starts up again? They were listened to, and our comments are having no affect whatsoever. I don't have the time or the inclination for the urinary Olympics, nor to run for a board position. If someone else chooses to battle this , I will give support as I can, but it seems we were a minority, and the louder majority rules here. Democracy is mob rule, where 51% inflict their ideals on the other 49%. It is clear to me which side we fell on.

 

[redclfco]

No fear Red, I wasn't offended by your analogy at all. It just seemed that Sibud jumped on it as appropriate. I understand where you(Red) were going with that, but I am confused as to why he(Sibud) felt people who posted there were lower life forms. I also wonder if he felt that way about everybody, or just certain people.This written media doesn't transfer sarcasm or intent very well. Red, you are and always will be a friend.

Same goes, the written word is not always the best commuicator..

 

[statdawg]

We want a new puppy

Now that we are progressing through the grieving process from denial and now bargaining with our emotions. Lets move to acceptance of the death of DGT. It is just like having a favorite dog that bite everyone that came near to house we have to accept DGT is no longer with us. Lets not be angry of those that ran over it causing a premature death but let it be remembered for what it once was.

Right now lets look for a new puppy. We need to stop the anger of the fast riders in front of the house and direct our attention to a replacement. To do this we have to play by the Community Zoning Board rules and township resources were we live. We do this in normal life and do not charge the castle with pitch forks and torches do we ?

The MOA has decided in the best interest of the community that dogs need to be leashed when walked and the owner has to be responsible. Right now the old dog that bite is deep rooted in the zoning boards mindset. So we that wish to have a new puppy must convince them how we are going to take care of one.

Lets build an proposal and create our own resources. I would propose having one person lined up to run it, and three or more lined up to act as moderators. Again, we need moderators that can watch the dog and the more the merrier. In the event we are going to go National together the dog can be locked down with access denied. A heavy chain, secret kennel, and out of public view needs to be in order.

Lastly, I would suggest adopting the general forum guidelines (absent the prohibitions on politics, religion and abortion) and perhaps make some a bit more stringent, especially when it comes to insults, threats and the like. Again I want a new puppy but one that is in the zoning standards.

I am no high tech platform wizard but I feel the program can accommodate such a rogue dog as the current one tolerated Statdawg. Right now it is like getting meat separated from Pit Bulls ( no offense Bemmerchief ). This mentality is counterproductive and needs to cease or no dog will be able to roam here.

So stop the barking and whining. There is time to beg for something but watch out for KTMs if you play in the street.

Lets stop the roaches and run a flea circus and entertain this issue. This thread has already attracted over 2500 views so lets be positive and work on getting a new dog.

 

[oldhway]

A Modest Proposal

A group of members are communicating with the intention of proposing a way of continueing or replacing the DGT. This effort is being done with the intent of staying within the existing channels of the MOA forum and abiding by all of the forum requirements. We will be contacting the Communications Committee with a complete and compliant proposal when that has been nailed down.

This discussion is taking place off forum for the sake of efficiancy and not to tie up forum resources. It is by no means being done in secret or as a "conspiracy" to co-opt forum leadership. For that reason, all members are invited to participate. We only ask that you are willing to work within the established MOA system to bring forth a realistic, unbiased proposal to provide an area of the forum where subjects like politics can be discussed. Or if you so choose to lurk and observe just to know what is happenning.

If you are interested in participating, please email me by clicking on my profile and sending me an email. Your name will placed on the email list so that you will receive and can participate in the discussions.

I am also sending a copy of this post to the Communications committee as a courtesy to let them know that there is a group trying to work with them to re-establish a DGT type forum.


Thanks everybody... Steve

 

[oldhway]

Now that we are progressing through the grieving process from denial and now bargaining with our emotions. Lets move to acceptance of the death of DGT. It is just like having a favorite dog that bite everyone that came near to house we have to accept DGT is no longer with us. Lets not be angry of those that ran over it causing a premature death but let it be remembered for what it once was.

Right now lets look for a new puppy. We need to stop the anger of the fast riders in front of the house and direct our attention to a replacement. To do this we have to play by the Community Zoning Board rules and township resources were we live. We do this in normal life and do not charge the castle with pitch forks and torches do we ?

The MOA has decided in the best interest of the community that dogs need to be leashed when walked and the owner has to be responsible. Right now the old dog that bite is deep rooted in the zoning boards mindset. So we that wish to have a new puppy must convince them how we are going to take care of one.

Lets build an proposal and create our own resources. I would propose having one person lined up to run it, and three or more lined up to act as moderators. Again, we need moderators that can watch the dog and the more the merrier. In the event we are going to go National together the dog can be locked down with access denied. A heavy chain, secret kennel, and out of public view needs to be in order.

Lastly, I would suggest adopting the general forum guidelines (absent the prohibitions on politics, religion and abortion) and perhaps make some a bit more stringent, especially when it comes to insults, threats and the like. Again I want a new puppy but one that is in the zoning standards.

I am no high tech platform wizard but I feel the program can accommodate such a rogue dog as the current one tolerated Statdawg. Right now it is like getting meat separated from Pit Bulls ( no offense Bemmerchief ). This mentality is counterproductive and needs to cease or no dog will be able to roam here.

So stop the barking and whining. There is time to beg for something but watch out for KTMs if you play in the street.

Lets stop the roaches and run a flea circus and entertain this issue. This thread has already attracted over 2500 views so lets be positive and work on getting a new dog.

100%

 

[rkasal]

That speaks for itself.

I have never considered the people who disagree with me to be roaches. Everyone has the right to their opinion and I sincerely wanted to hear others' opinions.

Listening to other people has changed my mind on the death penalty, drug punishments, and a lot more. An open mind seeking other thought is a wonderful mind.

 

[rkasal]

Randy,
The ride was great, even if I did find myself looking at the world from a horizontal point of view after the wind (pretty consistent at 40mph w/gust to 50) and some gravel conspired to present me with proof that gravity was still working. But, anytime one gets to ride 2800 miles in 6 days without getting rained on or snowed on ( very much, anyway) thru some beautiful country and amongst friendly people, a good time will be had. BTW, I had no final drive problems or any other mechanical difficulties that weren't associated with the conspiracy. The ankle, which was caught under the bike when we went down, is much better. I will have a pair of riding boots that don't slip on for my next trip, though. Getting into a slip-on boot with a stiff, twisted ankle is painful.

I don't know to whom you are referring for the position of moderator for a DGT like forum, but if called upon, I would serve as such. Hell, I'm there reading anyway.

If we don't submit our request through proper channels, we will always be open to the charge that we didn't go through proper channels. However, as Sibud pointed out, we have an election coming up. There are three openings on the board, if memory serves. We should query the candidates on their position on this issue, and vote accordingly.

Tom

Ok, you have my support for moderator. The fellow who had volunteered last night (probably drunk ) has decided to take a different route. Somebody probably got to him.

Do I hear a second vote for Tom to be moderator of the new and improved self-policing DGT? Suggestions for next steps? Mine would be we publicy agree on what the ground rules will be so Tom can be ruthlessly fair to all sides.

 

[oldhway]

Communications Committee response.

I am attaching the very positive response received from Greg at the communications committee.

From The Communications Committee w/permission:

Steve,
You've been told to expect a "thank you for writing, blah, blah, blah" reply. Well, there it is. ;-) Actually, I applaud your efforts to organize the folks who want DGT back, address the problems, and come up with a proposed solution. That's how it has to work, especially in a volunteer organization. When rubbing the magic lamp, it works much better to ask for something specific than just "do something". Looking forward to seeing what your group presents. If you have any questions along the way, please ask.

As with other communications on this subject, please feel free to share with others involved.

Greg Feeler
BMW MOA Board of Directors
Chair Communications & Marketing Committee

 

[Bud]

I thought it was a funny analogy, but you seem to take it to heart that the people who posted there were "roaches"?
That hardly seems in the spirit of the BMWMOA, but thank you for making your feelings clear. I won't consider the people who don't agree with my opinion in the same fashion, but whatever floats your boat.

Somebody please give him this message, as I have a different opinion than him so I may be on his ignore list.

Well, first of all you aren't on my ignore list, : but I wonder why you would think you would be. But as you can see, I see and read your posts.

Secondly, I didn't think I could be misunderstood, but it is obvious that I was.

I never said anyone was a roach. I didn't start the analogy. Some DGT frequent posters started referring to themselves as some lower life form.


But I would ask where was your "not in the spirit of BMWMOA" comments when this was posted?

Does anyone else find it curious that those who are from the right and from the left want to keep the forum but those who don't specifically want to keep the forum have not yet come out from under their slimy rocks and publicy stated so?

What lower life form lives under "slimy rocks"? Or was there no reaction because it was from a DGT frequent poster?


My point was this. One of the self described "roaches" stated that if the DGT forum doesn't return then "The trouble, Mr. Moderators is now those "men transformed to roaches" are going to be crawling over the rest of your site, multiplying over night, dirupting (sic)your fine community"

Sounded to me, and I'm sure there will be those who will be willing to correct me if I was wrong, that either we get DTG back or you will have to put up with us disrupting the rest of the forums.

I don't know how to interpret "dirupting (sic) your fine community" in any other manner. If some other meaning was intended, I'm listening.

 

[bob_m]

ÔÇ£It SuckedÔÇØ may be an accurate and succinct summary even if it is short on being a detailed explanation. IÔÇÖve been on this forum quite a while and engaged in discussions in most of the forum directories. DTG was different from discussions in the technical directories where replies would be either right or wrong but even if one was being brow-beaten for corrupting a classic design or using loud pipes there is always a base line of respect for the suffering lout.

On the DGT that respect seemed to be lacking. One poster claimed that he despised all liberals. That is hardly an invitation to a balanced debate but fairly typical for the mood in that directory. On that Hitler thread I replied with an exaggerated stereotype that I thought was so absurd and wrong thinking that I thought it would kill the absurd, wrong thinking thread (sort of like putting explosives into oil well fires). When that attempt was accepted as a normal response and I explained that I hoped to kill the thread I was accused of whining to the moderators and sneaking off into the back room to manipulate the forum content to satisfy my (GOD FORBID) political correctness. Accusations have been made that the DGT directory was killed by politically correct crybabies PMing the moderators. Could it be possible that the mods are telling the truth as to why they turned off the power? I canÔÇÖt buy into conspiracy theories when the stated explanation makes pretty good sense. I would rather trust that when people say stuff that it is true.

Early on I dove right into DGT. I had hoped that there would be some jousting, some verbal volleyball, some sarcasm, humor and wit. I suppose I expected to take some shots and get some off as well on topics of current events and the validity of my opinions. It turned out be a playground for trolling and a game of ÔÇ£GotchaÔÇØ. IMHO it was not a fun or friendly place.

I did not work to unplug the DGT directory, I just stopped visiting. It turned out that I visited and posted in other directories much less frequently as well. Not purposefully, but it just happened.

I have chatted with most of the DGT regulars on PMs or in other forum directories and I find them to be smart, thoughtful and well spoken when not in the rant mode. If DGT is revived and the model of discourse is more respectful I will participate, if not so be it, We can go there at the ralley

I would rather talk about motorcycles anyway.

So thatÔÇÖs my $0.02

 

[Rapid_Roy]

Well, first of all you aren't on my ignore list, : but I wonder why you would think you would be. But as you can see, I see and read your posts.

Secondly, I didn't think I could be misunderstood, but it is obvious that I was.

I never said anyone was a roach. I didn't start the analogy. Some DGT frequent posters started referring to themselves as some lower life form.

True, It appeared as if you agreed with that sentiment. I apologize if you did not. It is easy to misinterpret things written here, as we are both finding out. You had stated you had several people on your ignore list, I don't have any. I am interested in everybody's opinion, whether I agree with them or not. Again, I apologize if I misinterpreted your comment to include everybody who posted in DGT. I figured after that whole fireworks thread, you didn't like me anymore.

But I would ask where was your "not in the spirit of BMWMOA" comments when this was posted?

What lower life form lives under "slimy rocks"? Or was there no reaction because it was from a DGT frequent poster?

No, I just don't take everything he says that seriously, as I am familiar with his viewpoints on things. Your viewpoints, I have no idea.

My point was this. One of the self described "roaches" stated that if the DGT forum doesn't return then "The trouble, Mr. Moderators is now those "men transformed to roaches" are going to be crawling over the rest of your site, multiplying over night, disrupting (sic)your fine community"

Sounded to me, and I'm sure there will be those who will be willing to correct me if I was wrong, that either we get DGT back or you will have to put up with us disrupting the rest of the forums.

I don't know how to interpret "disrupting (sic) your fine community" in any other manner. If some other meaning was intended, I'm listening.

I can't speak for Red or Randy, and they don't speak for me either, but I didn't agree with the slimy rock analogy. It is obvious his comment was made in anger at the manner in which DGT was attacked and removed, as it wasn't public in any way shape or form.
I take responsibility for my actions, and I was hurt that people felt we were posting things that made members uncomfortable (especially the ladies, I guess I know why my images of love thread was mostly men), and they felt they couldn't tell me, and had to complain to a mod. I completely missed that part when Ian had the vote or I would have spoken up right there. Quite frankly, I see many opinions here that I don't agree with, but I wouldn't write to a mod demanding they be removed, but that's just me I guess.

An example I'll use is at the National in West Bend, some guy camped right by us went all the way up by the band found Sue and complained about our noise. Wouldn't it just have been simpler to just come over and tell us to be quiet? Did he really think a bunch of Beemer riders were going to start a fight?

It appears some have taken this more to heart than others, nor was I planning on disrupting the forum. My take on it was these threads would start appearing in the campfire section again, which is what annoyed people in the first place. I saw comments that people were angry about Karl turning in obviously drunk drivers. I would too, but if I chime in, I certainly won't change the guys mind that thought that was wrong. Some people don't even wear helmets, or have laced riding boots, whatya gonna do?

Sorry about the confusion, (BTW, I am glad I am not on your ignore list, Thank you.)