American West Trip – Can it be done?

[eikelben]

Thanks to you all!

I am overwhelmed with the positive comments and warm reception from you all! I honestly expected more comments along the lines of "you're crazy" but have received quite the opposite. In talking over the trip with a few friends that's generally the impression I've gotten and was looking for someone to validate my crazy! Sounds like I'm among like-minded people. I'll certainly

sailorlite
You've planned a magnificent ride, IMO. However, to me it seems a shame to miss Zion and Bryce Canyon NP's in SW Utah. In any case, check out Hwy. 89 from Provo south instead of I-15. As you've probably noticed already, there will be no shortage of suggestions - you may have to start planning for next year's ride.

Apparently I missed that in my initial post. We do plan to hit both of those. Thanks for the reminder.

PGlaves
On your leg across Kansas and Missouri I would recommend US 36 rather than I-70. It is a much more pleasant way to go and not a whole lot slower. The extra hour is well worth not riding 70.

Thanks for that recommendation. Sounds like many others agree so we'll definitely adjust our route. Can't not see the geographical center of the country! Just the other week I randomly found the "geographical center of the lower peninsula as closely as can be determined" on a ride across the state. That stuff is travel gold!

akbeemer
Instead of taking the interstate from the Rapid City area to Billings, take Hwy 212 from Belle Fourche to Crow Agency. Saves 50 miles and gets you off the interstate. You can make a deviation and visit Devil's Tower as well. The Black Hills of South Dakota are worth a day if you can fit it in.

Good to know – I'll look into that. We've also questioned missing the Black Hills – It's definitely a balancing act about what we choose to see and don't. If we can fit it in, we definitely will. My grandfather would roll over in his grave if he knew we'd be this close to Crazy Horse and not stop… he was obsessed with it's creation.

cide1
I did 2500 miles in 6 days last September, from Indy to West Virginia, Virginia Beach, Outer Banks, North Carolina, Tennessee (including Tail of the Dragon and Wheels Through Time), Kentucky, and back to Indy. The last day was probably the worst, doing about 550 miles, with the last 350 miles or so being one shot interstate home in the cold and getting dark. Overall it was a great experience, and the pace was sustainable for me as a serious but not super serious motorcyclist on an R1200R. I fit everything in the two system cases, although I will take much less on the next trip. I wore an Aerostich with a hoody, T-shirt and jeans underneath. I highly recommend Aerostich. I also used an Airhawk seat, which made a big difference. I booked the first two hotel rooms before leaving, and had a rough idea of the place I needed to be by certain times. The rest of the bookings I did from my phone the night before I needed them, using Google ratings to help me hit a certain quality for a certain price point (and trying to stay away from big cities where hotels cost more). For the most part this worked pretty well.

Glad to hear the pace is sustainable. I know we're going to have some rough days, but the conditioning hasn't been too bad I think we'll have decent luck with hotels following the method you (and others here) have mentioned. The difficult part will be trying to work in camping which generally needs advance reservations. Like I mentioned, we'd like to try to camp a decent amount to keep costs lower and reserve the hotel stays to recoup after a long/hard bit of riding or nasty weather. Anyone have thoughts on using Tentspace in this fashion?

hojoinsc
Your daily mileage seems very reasonable, this past year I did 6,000 miles in 11 days (took 3 days off hiking Glacier National Park) and the daily mileage was too much for my liking...I did the same amount 6 years ago and was surprised how much 6 years has taken it's toll on me.

Glad to hear it's reasonable… and I completely understand the toll of time. I've definitely learned I'm not getting any younger either!

From what you've shared of your background, plans, etc., (all good info to know)…

And my wife thought it would be an overshare –*I told her, this is a bunch of BMW owners – they're going to ask these questions if I don't state them outright!

deilenberger
NEVER have to be anywhere on a motorcycle. Not having to be anywhere puts you into a much safer mindset and one more open to exploration. Don't plan the stops as "must stop and see" - plan them as "if I'm in the area.." sort of stops. Leave yourself the time and ability to change plans at a whim (or weather, or whatever.)

Thanks to you and AlanColes (et al) for reiterating that sentiment. I know it's a good thing to keep in the back of your head, along with adequate rest, hydration and off-the-saddle time.

Thanks again to you all for taking the time to help an absolute stranger. The community aspect was a large factor in my purchasing decision – I was looking at both Triumph and BMW (already owning a Triumph Scrambler) and where I live we have mega-dealers and a BMW dealer. I like the simplicity of that and it definitely feels like joining a club rather than going to the store to buy a bike. I'll continue to check in here as we continue our planning (and the dreaded packing!) Thanks again guys!

 

[hellebauer]

I 2nd on taking 36 East, much better than I70. Fill up in Byers where 36 splits from 70, no gas for 100 miles or so after that.

Check out old Loveland Pass and/or hit up Mt. Evans (from there take Squaw PAss Rd to Denver) before dropping out of the Rockies by Denver.

Like others said and do, I always get my motels at the end of the riding day. I might book a day in advance if hitting a major tourist area around a national holiday. Don't overplan, have fun instead and improvise !

....and post pics of your trip !

Helmut

 

[powwow]

I am overwhelmed with the positive comments and warm reception from you all! I honestly expected more comments along the lines of "you're crazy" but have received quite the opposite. In talking over the trip with a few friends that's generally the impression I've gotten and was looking for someone to validate my crazy! Sounds like I'm among like-minded people. I'll certainly



Apparently I missed that in my initial post. We do plan to hit both of those. Thanks for the reminder.



Thanks for that recommendation. Sounds like many others agree so we'll definitely adjust our route. Can't not see the geographical center of the country! Just the other week I randomly found the "geographical center of the lower peninsula as closely as can be determined" on a ride across the state. That stuff is travel gold!



Good to know – I'll look into that. We've also questioned missing the Black Hills – It's definitely a balancing act about what we choose to see and don't. If we can fit it in, we definitely will. My grandfather would roll over in his grave if he knew we'd be this close to Crazy Horse and not stop… he was obsessed with it's creation.



Glad to hear the pace is sustainable. I know we're going to have some rough days, but the conditioning hasn't been too bad I think we'll have decent luck with hotels following the method you (and others here) have mentioned. The difficult part will be trying to work in camping which generally needs advance reservations. Like I mentioned, we'd like to try to camp a decent amount to keep costs lower and reserve the hotel stays to recoup after a long/hard bit of riding or nasty weather. Anyone have thoughts on using Tentspace in this fashion?



Glad to hear it's reasonable… and I completely understand the toll of time. I've definitely learned I'm not getting any younger either!


And my wife thought it would be an overshare –*I told her, this is a bunch of BMW owners – they're going to ask these questions if I don't state them outright!


Thanks to you and AlanColes (et al) for reiterating that sentiment. I know it's a good thing to keep in the back of your head, along with adequate rest, hydration and off-the-saddle time.

Thanks again to you all for taking the time to help an absolute stranger. The community aspect was a large factor in my purchasing decision – I was looking at both Triumph and BMW (already owning a Triumph Scrambler) and where I live we have mega-dealers and a BMW dealer. I like the simplicity of that and it definitely feels like joining a club rather than going to the store to buy a bike. I'll continue to check in here as we continue our planning (and the dreaded packing!) Thanks again guys!

You've gotten a lot of really great advice for this adventure. I, too, have ridden most of the roads you are planning and it will be a great trip.

You mention camping, which I've done a lot of on the motorcycle and have always had really good luck at the U.S. Forest Service campgrounds. They are usually very well kept and frequently have a camp host right on site (who usually is selling firewood). As a tent camper, I had a lot more flexibility in where I camped, so I never had any problem finding a camp site. This is especially true if you plan to stop by late afternoon. Here is the U.S. Forest service site:

https://www.fs.fed.us/visit/know-before-you-go/camping

Safe travels to you!

 

[temesvar]

You have been getting advises from people that have been there. There is nothing I could ad here!
Am following the thread, since I intend to cross from East coast to West with a friend, in June.
We intend to use motels, as I find to be just great to have a warm shower and a dry bed at the end of
a day long ride. Besides, camping gear takes up much space. And we are going on two bikes. You are
lucky to have a understanding wife that agrees to go with so little comfort for the time you will be on
the road. Not many women will do that!
Best of luck to you, and don't forget to post some pic's!!

 

[GeorgeR1200RT]

When I was your age and lived in Saginaw, Michigan, I rode the routes you are covering plus going to the Pacific Coast states.

I avoided the interstates whenever I could and would ride an extra 50-100 miles to avoid a metro city...except when visiting family in Chicago or Detroit.

I have been camping a lot. My reason was mostly to save money and to have cover if there were no motels. Like an idiot I frequently rode too late in the day.

Unlike a lot of people, I rarely took any cooking gear. For the evening meal I would eat before I set up camp, go to a local food place, or take sandwich fixins' to eat in the campsite. I never kept any food with me overnight because of attracting critters. I got up and packed in the morning and stopped at the first restaurant I came to. My wife was OK with this and it eliminated a lot of gear. The tent was just a place to sleep...we'd be sure to find a motel every couple days to bring personal hygiene up to standard.

I found two sleeping bags were too bulky. Look for something that you can share that is not made for bitter cold nights. If it gets colder than planned, put on any warm riding gear you carry.

The other thing I recommend is having a beaded and/or Airhawk type seat cover. It works best if you swap what you sit on with your wife as the day progresses. Different pressure points, etc are better as the day wears on.

Enjoy!

 

[Woodbutcher]

I've learned that staying flexible on the schedule is important. It is a vacation and trying to push to stay on schedule can ruin some of the fun. And I'm kind of a schedule guy. Don't forget that this isn't your last trip. If you get to enjoying one part a lot, then enjoy it. Put what you miss on the list for the next trip.

Everybody else has given you the good practical advice about gas, speeds and such so I won't try and cover that. Have fun.

 

[zenwhipper]

A modification to your route for your consideration. Instead of taking the interstate from the Rapid City area to Billings, take Hwy 212 from Belle Fourche to Crow Agency. Saves 50 miles and gets you off the interstate. You can make a deviation and visit Devil's Tower as well. The Black Hills of South Dakota are worth a day if you can fit it in.

This ^^^. Yep Yep.

 

[chickey191]

have fun

good suggestions from a lot of places --- here are mine
go hit Zion, Bryce canyon, etc. in southern UT. Bryce to highway 12 - up to torrey, UT is another fabulous road. IF you stop in Torrey and hanker for a great meal head to Cafe Diablo. 70 here isn't bad as it is pretty scenic and mostly fast.
carry a couple of credit cards even if you tell your cc company that you are traveling you will set off their fraud alerts and they will force you to go inside to pay for gas sooner or later. You really don't want that to happen late at night where there is no cell coverage and the station is closed and you find you can't use the card.
get gas when you can - especially at night.
as others have said - easy to do bigger mileage out west - but then you are also going on some epic roads(like Beartooth Pass) - you will not be riding that to make up time, plus you're going to keep stopping for photo ops.
Your trip is imminently doable unless you hit weather - you leave late every day - stop at every tourist attraction or end up hiking through parks or stopping at every beautiful vista.
a "smell the roses" tour is total fun and even if it storms on you it just becomes part of the story when you get home. However weather can be a bugger out west. Lightning and wind and dust devils and flash flooding (even in the desert) are possible. Just don't be stupid and try to ride through really bad weather. Some states also use pretty rough aggregate in their macadam formulas and tire wear can sneak up on you especially with a loaded down bike.
Make sure you carry more water than that camel back. it isn't enough and certainly not enough for 2. Pending the season - it can get awful hot in some of the areas - and high elevation will also contribute to dehydration. carry more water than you think you should.
some say eat in fast food places because you know what you are going to get - but I'm more of a Mom & Pop local diner kind of person. Riskier, but often worth it and you run into some great people (maybe score a great camping spot on someone's farm or house and home cooked meal).
It really depends on your mind set. Are you going to push for time or stop and talk at gas stations.
Also -- don't know if you mentioned it - but Sena or the like will help communicate with your lady and prevent you getting your head slapped when she wants to stop for something and you miss it.
U-turns are OK.
watch for deer - and Elk and even the rabbits can be pretty big - especially when riding near dawn or dusk - but you rode in MI and they are just as bad - maybe not as big.
Have fun - enjoy the scenery - You WILL be back to hit the roads (and states) you missed.
I've ridden several Utah 1088 rallies - and have covered UT top to bottom - and it is one of my favorite states to ride in (except for the deer) and ever since the Olympics -- they actually sell good beer now. Try Polygamist Porter !

 

[bwalker33467]

This post has been duplicated on advrider.com forums at http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/american-west-trip-–-can-it-be-done.1219253/ Hoping to reach a larger audience (and one that is possibly more in tune and familiar with the bike we'll be riding, I've also posted here. As a noob, I hope this is not frowned up on and if so, I will promptly remove the thread.) Some might say I've provided an excessive amount of detail, but I think I am probably at home in the BMWMOA community...

This will be our first major motorcycle trip so I am reaching out to you more experienced riders to determine the feasibility of what we have planned at this point.

First off, about us. The ride will be my wife and I on a 2016 BMW R1200GS Adventure with the factory panniers and a pair of dry bags. We are in our mid-thirties, both in excellent physical shape. I do strength training regularly and have a physically demanding job while my wife has trained as a yoga teacher and follows the lifestyle that entails. We are in good health, no existing ailments and are looking forward to an adventure. I have been riding for a while now and am completely comfortable handling the bike. In preparation for the trip, we will be doing a few long-distance overnight trips in the UP of Michigan as well as a trip down to TN.

Our trip will begin in Western Michigan leaving the evening of August 29 to ride to the suburbs of Chicago to stay with family overnight. We will then head West returning home September 12 with work on the 13th. We plan to stay in hotels occasionally, with friends in CO for a night or two and ideally take advantage of Tentspace to save on money. Most of the funding has been spent (or will be…) purchasing the items necessary for the trip.

A rough outline of our trip: I80 out of Chicago through Iowa and Nebraska, making our way North into South Dakota, arriving at Devils Tower in Northeastern Wyoming. From there we’ll head North and then West in Montana towards Billings to ride Beartooth Pass (which I have heard to be incredible). We will then Take 212 South through Yellowstone and then head west on 191 into Idaho splitting off on 32 to ride along the Western edge of the Tetons. From there we will take 26 over to Idaho Falls and head South on I15 though Salt Lake City down to Bryce, Goblin Valley, Canyonlands and Arches, passing into CO and seeing Colorado National Monument. We might possibly drop down to Silverton but ultimately head towards Laketon, CO where I have a friend we’ll be staying with. Before leaving CO we’ll pass through Estes Park and then either take I80 or I70 back towards home. We’d prefer I70 to see different scenery. Either way, we would again have a place to stay near Chicago if the timing worked out as we make our final push back into Michigan.

All in all the rough draft of this trip is nearly 5,000 miles averaging 338 miles per day over 14 days.

View attachment 61248

We are fully aware that there are going to be some utterly grueling days on this trip and definitely days where we’re gong to hate the idea of getting back on the bike. However, the idea of a real road trip and the experience of actually getting to travel the American West by motorbike far outweighs the difficulties that will evaporate shortly after the trip is done. The memories and experience we will have forever.

So, thoughts? From those who have done something similar, is it possible? Sleeping bags come with a comfort rating and a survival rating for temperature –*what’s the comfort and survival rating when it comes to mileage on the sort of trip? Can we throw it in cruise and blast across Iowa and Nebraska for 8 hours? Any thoughts about using Tentspace? Other recommendations for accommodations? (We’re hesitate to book many hotels or campsites due to the inevitable flat tire or other holdup preventing us from making the reservation and forfeiting our money. Thoughts/experiences with planning but remaining flexible?)

For those of you who have made it this far, thank you for reading and I look forward to any wisdom you might be able to share.

5k in 14 days? In general, a piece of cake!!

 

[AjaxTheDog]

A few caveats

Hmmm...there is no such place as Laketon, CO. I suspect you mean Lake City. Very pretty out there, Ouray is not to be missed, a cool little town.

338 miles a day for 14 days in a row is a rugged schedule, especially two up. Sure, I can do 400-700 miles a day by myself but after 5 days in the saddle my butt needs a rest. Good idea to try some shorter trips first and see if you both like it. It also helps to have a good communications system so you can talk easily while riding. A set of Sena 20S intercoms has worked well for me and my passenger.

I have ridden all of these routes and do a 5K mile east coast and great lakes/Canada trip every summer, visiting all those relatives that don't get out much. The only advice I'd offer beyond what all has been said is that the national parks like Rocky Mountain, Zion, etc can get very jammed up during the summer. I once had to wait an hour at Zion as they were holding all traffic and only letting small groups of cars in at a time. Even then when you get in it can be difficult going 15-20 MPH in congested stop and go traffic conditions. Not much fun. And even weekdays are busy in summer.

Perhaps consider trailering (Yes I know, that's so "Harley"...) from Chicago to the foothills of the Rockies since the eastern half of your route is not all that interesting.

One other method I have used is to have my passenger fly to an intermediate destination where I would pick her up, then we'd ride around closer to the more interesting parts of the route together.

Whatever you decide it will be fun, just be safe and always err on the side of caution. Conditions can get pretty wild out here as weather is very unpredictable. Get a good radar weather app for your phone like MyRadar. Tells me when to sit out a storm!

 

[patiodadio]

My wife and I have been touring for many years and now we don't plan a route too much. Its more like a safari, just going somewhere and taking different roads and maybe ending up approximately where we thought we might. We are heading west sometime around the first of June. Leaving home in KY, visiting Graceland in Memphis , been by there but never taken the tour. Dipping our toes in Mississippi , then across Arkansas , Oklahoma , having a steak at the Big Texan Steak Ranch in Amarillo, on to Albuquerque for the Braking Bad tour. Maybe trying to ride US 66 a lot of the way through AZ and maybe taking one of those Hollywood tours in LA . then back to climb Pikes Peak in CO. on our RT and finally home again. Just staying very loosely on our "plan". It will be interesting to see how much we do and don't get done at the end of the trip.
Good luck on your trip and remember to have fun !

 

[wasppandd]

My wife and I just returned from a 4300 mile trip around colorado and it was great. We really enjoyed the ride along the San Miguel river in western CO just south of Grand Junction, miles and miles of beautiful red canyons...it was one of the best rides we had on the trip! The highway is 141 and I believe 145 great ride! Last year we did a 5000 mile trip out to the black hills. we went to Devils tower and Mt Rushmore as well as Iron mountain road and the needles highway. We usually stay off the interstates and hit the smaller roads in KS and NE if possible, We have found some interesting things in KS and find it to be an interesting state. We just came through St Francis KS on our way home and found a great little motorcycle museum in town it was a great stop and a real nice museum (great coffee shop just down the street too). We try to do a big day on the first day (600+ miles) and a big day on the return that usually works for us. Be flexible and don't try to do or see to much it will be there for a return trip! We were camping in the Great Sand Dunes park in CO and decided to change our route based on the weather forecasts so it took us down into northern New Mexico and the back up to Durango CO...it was a good choice. Have a great time and pace yourself! Here's a link to our trip last year.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/tn-to-wy-roadside-america-tour.1165527/

 

[daboo]

I just finished a trip that led me through part of your western journey. I'll add a few thoughts:

1. Bring cooling vests. You can buy some very nice cooling vests from Cycle Gear. Their store brand, Bilt, worked great for me. It's like having air conditioning. They also sell their Heat Out base layer clothing. I bought the long sleeve t-shirts. I could rinse them out at night in the sink and they'd be dry by morning. When the temps hit the 90s, they didn't so much cool me down, as to keep the hot air off my skin and keep me from over-heating.
2. Make motel reservations. The tourist areas like the national parks will be booked full. I stayed outside Yellowstone and I think every motel in the town was full. We stayed in motels outside Utah's national parks too, and most were full.
3. The idea on multiple credit cards is great. I stopped in some towns for gas where there was no one to be seen. Just a dirt parking lot and two pumps. If I'd had to see an attendant for gas, I'd have been stuck there.
4. Watch your gas mileage and plan ahead for gas stops. Your range is greater than mine, so you probably won't have a problem at all. But you'll be carrying two people and gear, so your mileage may not be what you normally get. Plus head winds will take their toll if you hit any. There were a couple places were I filled up after only about 70 miles...because the next gas station wasn't for another 150 miles. Bing maps will bring up gas stations along your route.

Chris

 

[71243]

Hmmm...there is no such place as Laketon, CO. I suspect you mean Lake City. Very pretty out there, Ouray is not to be missed, a cool little town.

338 miles a day for 14 days in a row is a rugged schedule, especially two up. Sure, I can do 400-700 miles a day by myself but after 5 days in the saddle my butt needs a rest. Good idea to try some shorter trips first and see if you both like it. It also helps to have a good communications system so you can talk easily while riding. A set of Sena 20S intercoms has worked well for me and my passenger.

I have ridden all of these routes and do a 5K mile east coast and great lakes/Canada trip every summer, visiting all those relatives that don't get out much. The only advice I'd offer beyond what all has been said is that the national parks like Rocky Mountain, Zion, etc can get very jammed up during the summer. I once had to wait an hour at Zion as they were holding all traffic and only letting small groups of cars in at a time. Even then when you get in it can be difficult going 15-20 MPH in congested stop and go traffic conditions. Not much fun. And even weekdays are busy in summer.

Perhaps consider trailering (Yes I know, that's so "Harley"...) from Chicago to the foothills of the Rockies since the eastern half of your route is not all that interesting.

One other method I have used is to have my passenger fly to an intermediate destination where I would pick her up, then we'd ride around closer to the more interesting parts of the route together.

Whatever you decide it will be fun, just be safe and always err on the side of caution. Conditions can get pretty wild out here as weather is very unpredictable. Get a good radar weather app for your phone like MyRadar. Tells me when to sit out a storm!

"from Chicago to the foothills of the Rockies since the eastern half of your route is not all that interesting. "

Just offering a differing opinion.....

There is "something" about the plains ? Hard to explain but I actually like traveling through them. Maybe it is just the way they remind me of just how huge this country of ours is?

 

[ShawnI]

Hi. Hope it's not to late to toss out another deviation idea. I second the others that have said don't miss the Black Hills. In Nebraska instead of heading north where you show on the map go all the way to Chadron on Highway 20. Even better would be to stay on I-80 to Grand Island then take highway 2 through the sandhills and still end up in Chadron. At Chadron take 385 all the way up through the Black Hills then 14 to Spearfish and on to Devil's Tower. Even if you don't stop at the tourist stuff at least you will experience the beauty of the Black Hills.

Enjoy!
Shawn

Editing to say I live in Omaha not in Rapid City as it says. That was about 12 years ago!

 

[ncpbmw1953]

. Leave yourself the time and ability to change plans at a whim (or weather, or whatever.)

Don't sweat motels. I have found that if you can plan where you're going to stop by about 3-4PM, you can always find a room Also - going west - remember the low setting sun in late afternoon. It is blinding - not only to you - but to trucks and cars on the road. Avoid it.

Finally - remember - no one is paying you to do this (if they are - I want to apply for that job!) - so don't make it a job.

This was our strategy last June when we started a x-country trip starting in coastal California, thru incredible Zion/Bryce/Canyon Lands, all over Utah & Colorado, then buzzed east off the interstate towards the southern entrance to the BRP, then up the BRP and on to Provincetown, Cape Cod for lobster, then thru the White & Green Mountains of NH/Vermont, along southern Lake Eerie to Niagara ON, then to Sarnia ON and up the east coast of Michigan over the Big Mac, then off to Badlands, Black Hills, Devils Tower, Sawtooth Mountains and then....my brother hit a large deer which took out the deer and his '15 FJR, but he walked away from it w/ no major injury and flew home from Cody WY. We had planned the Beartooth and other areas but that ended w/ the crash. So I finished the trip thru Yellowstone/Tetons and then thru Eastern OR back home to Nor Cal on back roads. Incredible adventure! The whole ride was 9,163m long and took place over 25 days, averaging 366m/day.

My brother was focused on planning every single stop and reservation along the way but graciously acquiesced to do what I had been wanting to do all along, which was to NOT be married to our route, other than in a basic way. We had reservations just for the first couple of days and from then on we would follow the general route but could always divert for weather and scenery etc, and would call motels at our lunch stop the day before we needed lodging. I figured most folks will cancel in that period before the 24h cancellation window closes so there will be fresh availability, and we had no troubles anywhere doing it this way, and it was pretty much peak season. I much prefer the freedom and flexibility of this approach--it clearly takes the gruel out. If you are hitting popular tourist stops at peak season and feel you must stay at a particular venue then you will likely need a reservation, otherwise keep it loose and go to wherever you find a decent motel. We preferred to leave earlier and finish around 2:30-3:00 when you often have a better selection of rooms.

 

[eikelben]

Thanks to all who have contributed (and amazingly continue to do so)! It's been immensely helpful in planning and our route is changing daily at this point. We're two weeks out and getting excited! Thanks again. I'll follow up after the trip.


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