2004 1150RS ~47k - rough running

[MOONDOG59]

2004 1150RS ~47k not starting

Good afternoon everyone,
Went out to breakfast a couple of Saturdays ago and 45 minutes into the ride my bike started to buck like bronco buck on a horse. I back off the the throttle and then back on and it bucked even worse. Myself and friend turned around to go home but never made it.

It was running so bad I parked it, two upped back to my house for the trailer and home. I tried starting it get it on the trailer but not happening.

This Georgia, Savannah area. Very humid lately and lots of rain. I drained the fuel tank and the fuel looks OK, at least not cloudy. Filter was changed just last year and the bike is always garaged.

I must admit that it hasn't been rode a lot lately.

The week earlier I dropped the bike on the right side against a plastic floor bureau/bin so it never hit the ground and didn't touch anything near the engine.

Today I got to looking at it and I found the vacuum caps on the throttle bodies (canister-ectomy) cracked and very loose. To be replaced.

But is that enough to send the bike into a bucking fit?

Anybody have an idea? I am thinking the HES but before I get in to that I want to explore this.
Thanks in advance

 

[20774]

I'll add a bit more to the title to help with searching.

 

[pauls1150]

Just the bad caps won't do it - they will, however, allow unfiltered air (etc. ...) directly into the throttle body and engine.

Did you notice if the Rider Information Display flickered? That could point to an electrical issue.
By 2004, we had decent HESs, so that's not a first suspect.
We have two fuel filters - on the intake side of the pump, and the can on the outlet side.
Did you let that drained fuel sit for several minutes, to let anything (like water) precipitate (separate)?
Check that the connections on both injectors, the TPS, and under the right rear of the tank are all clean, dry, and properly seated.
Intermittent short (battery?) or open circuit (ignition switch, kill switch, clutch or sidestand interlock?).
Loose fuse?

 

[MOONDOG59]

Just the bad caps won't do it - they will, however, allow unfiltered air (etc. ...) directly into the throttle body and engine.

Did you notice if the Rider Information Display flickered? That could point to an electrical issue.
By 2004, we had decent HESs, so that's not a first suspect.
We have two fuel filters - on the intake side of the pump, and the can on the outlet side.
Did you let that drained fuel sit for several minutes, to let anything (like water) precipitate (separate)?
Check that the connections on both injectors, the TPS, and under the right rear of the tank are all clean, dry, and properly seated.
Intermittent short (battery?) or open circuit (ignition switch, kill switch, clutch or sidestand interlock?).
Loose fuse?

No Rider Information Display seen
Fuel settled and no contamination apparent
Will check others

 

[pauls1150]

The RID is (should be...) to the right of, and below, your instruments, containing the fuel gauge, the temperature gauge, and the clock.

 

[MOONDOG59]

No indications from the display.
No lights. It's working fine.

 

[MOONDOG59]

One other question. I read the word "surging" being used a lot. I used "bucking". I'm wondering if they are one in the same? What's everyone's definition of "surging"?

 

[MOONDOG59]

What's the rollover valve and where is it located?

 

[pauls1150]

So the temperature and fuel level are displaying ok?
Did the clock ever reset to 00:00? That would be an indication that electrical power was lost, a major clue.

Surging is what you'll feel as the computer tries to continually re-adjust the fuel mix and timing (because there's only one oxygen sensor measuring the exhaust of two cylinders); best way to "find" this is to try to hold about 2000-2500 rpm in second gear on a slight uphill.

Bucking is when it's jerky and just doesn't want to run right.

The 1150s don't have "electrical" rollover cutoffs; while the gas cap is anti-spill, there's no mechanical shutoff either. Some bikes have one or both.

As a way to check the "ignition" half of the HES, you can put a timing light on the lower/peripheral spark plug wire - NOT to see the timing, but just to observe for spark; do both sides separately.
As a way to check the "fuel injection" side of the HES, if you're mechanically adept, pull the injectors (again, separately) and aim the outlet into a cup or jar - you should see the pattern, strength, and consistency of the spray (eye protection recommended, and No smoking). Since it ran ok for 45 minutes, I doubt it's bad gas.

On the good side, since the charcoal canister got lost somewhere, there are probably no little charcoal bits holding an intake valve open (or welded to a valve seat). Spark plug color can tell a lot; the center plug is a better reading than the outer one, which often shows a little cooler.
If you have a compression gauge, that could be a useful measurement.

 

[MOONDOG59]

So the temperature and fuel level are displaying ok?
Did the clock ever reset to 00:00? That would be an indication that electrical power was lost, a major clue.

Surging is what you'll feel as the computer tries to continually re-adjust the fuel mix and timing (because there's only one oxygen sensor measuring the exhaust of two cylinders); best way to "find" this is to try to hold about 2000-2500 rpm in second gear on a slight uphill.

Bucking is when it's jerky and just doesn't want to run right.

The 1150s don't have "electrical" rollover cutoffs; while the gas cap is anti-spill, there's no mechanical shutoff either. Some bikes have one or both.

As a way to check the "ignition" half of the HES, you can put a timing light on the lower/peripheral spark plug wire - NOT to see the timing, but just to observe for spark; do both sides separately.
As a way to check the "fuel injection" side of the HES, if you're mechanically adept, pull the injectors (again, separately) and aim the outlet into a cup or jar - you should see the pattern, strength, and consistency of the spray (eye protection recommended, and No smoking). Since it ran ok for 45 minutes, I doubt it's bad gas.

On the good side, since the charcoal canister got lost somewhere, there are probably no little charcoal bits holding an intake valve open (or welded to a valve seat). Spark plug color can tell a lot; the center plug is a better reading than the outer one, which often shows a little cooler.
If you have a compression gauge, that could be a useful measurement.

Clock did not reset, no fuel or temp indications that I recall.
OK, no surging here it was definitely bucking. Fuel is clean. I have the tank off and fuel looks clean. there was a new filter within the 500 miles. Air filter is clean, no critter nests, fuel injector contacts look solid and will spray with contact cleaner before assembly. Plugs out. Nothing earth shaking there. New coils within last 500 miles. Heading to the side stand switch now. If that opened or closed all of the sudden that can cause an issue. Holding off on the HES at the moment because I don't have timing light etc. Press on!

 

[ross1150rt]

Any update?

Hi, curious if you found out what happened and how you fixed it? Thanks

 

[MOONDOG59]

Nothing yet. Covid ran me over and haven't got back to it. Fiddling with it a little bit today.

 

[eyrepb]

Rough running update?

Hi
New to this site. I saw this post and wonder what was the outcome of this issue?

 

[MOONDOG59]

Nothing yet. I am not working on it as much as I could. Kind of fed up with it. Brought it to Jacksonville BMW in hopes of a fix. Was not pleased with their work. I brought it to them saying it won't start. Well they took that as the only item wrong with it.

They found that the last time I used my 911 on it I had triggered the "start suppression" (unbeknownst to me). They turned the suppression off and it started. But ran like poop. But because this 2004 bike is considered a "legacy" bike, they didn't want to do any more work on it. So when I picked it up "we did as you requested, we got it started".....and that was it.

Going forward and the bike is still not running properly (once it gets running and warmed up it idles ok but touch the throttle and it coughs and spits until I get it settled at a higher rpm. So getting it started is still an issue. Acting like it is very cold. AND because BMW doesn't work on legacy bikes I have to find and independent wrench in Georgia if I want to go that route.

I am going to check the throttle bodies (I pulled the brass screw and they were dirty but that wasn't it, I cleaned them and it didn't help. Yes I cleaned the ports also.) I am going to check valve adjustments just because I am running out of things to look at.
As of this moment:
- fuel filter changed
- spark plugs changed
- fuel regulator changed
- spark coils are brand new as of last year
- fuel injectors are getting a signal
- last time I checked for fuel at the injectors it was ok but that may be different now.
- ran Seafoam thru it.
- hi-test fuel
-

 

[BC1100S]

Hall Effect Sensor?

 

[AntonLargiader]

A bad (or unplugged) TPS can cause that.

 

[eyrepb]

Sorry; TPS? Throttle Position Sensor?

 

[MOONDOG59]

Hall Effect Sensor?

Changed, forgot to put that in my list. And when Jacksonville had it they used their 911 and saw that the HES was aligned properly.

 

[MOONDOG59]

A bad (or unplugged) TPS can cause that.

I haven't touched that. I may have checked the connector. I'll need to check that again. I avoid getting near that not wanting to move it.

Will the 911 show me anything about the TPS whether it is good or bad? I am new to the 911.

 

[m_stock10506]

I haven't touched that. I may have checked the connector. I'll need to check that again. I avoid getting near that not wanting to move it.

Will the 911 show me anything about the TPS whether it is good or bad? I am new to the 911.

It should. Typical test for TPS shows that it is/isn’t set to the proper voltage range at idle. That is probably what the dealer checked in your previous post. Not impossible, but the TPS rarely goes bad.