2004 1150RS ~47k - rough running

[RPGR90s]

Nothing yet. I am not working on it as much as I could. Kind of fed up with it. Brought it to Jacksonville BMW in hopes of a fix. Was not pleased with their work. I brought it to them saying it won't start. Well they took that as the only item wrong with it.

They found that the last time I used my 911 on it I had triggered the "start suppression" (unbeknownst to me). They turned the suppression off and it started. But ran like poop. But because this 2004 bike is considered a "legacy" bike, they didn't want to do any more work on it. So when I picked it up "we did as you requested, we got it started".....and that was it.

Going forward and the bike is still not running properly (once it gets running and warmed up it idles ok but touch the throttle and it coughs and spits until I get it settled at a higher rpm. So getting it started is still an issue. Acting like it is very cold. AND because BMW doesn't work on legacy bikes I have to find and independent wrench in Georgia if I want to go that route.

I am going to check the throttle bodies (I pulled the brass screw and they were dirty but that wasn't it, I cleaned them and it didn't help. Yes I cleaned the ports also.) I am going to check valve adjustments just because I am running out of things to look at.
As of this moment:
- fuel filter changed
- spark plugs changed
- fuel regulator changed
- spark coils are brand new as of last year
- fuel injectors are getting a signal
- last time I checked for fuel at the injectors it was ok but that may be different now.
- ran Seafoam thru it.
- hi-test fuel
-

FWIW, Seafoam is not a good idea. About a month ago, I was prepping my 2004 RT (same engine as your RS) to ride to the MOA National in VA. It has 132k on it and runs perfect. For the hell of it, I wanted to drop a can of Techron in it but couldn't find it at the Auto Parts store. So I got a can of SeaFoam, followed the directions and added it to the full tank.

About 100 miles into the ride, I noticed the bike would stall at idle as well as the idle had dropped to about 800 (normally around 1100). I continued on, but noticed at each fill up the mileage was dropping. Normally, around 46-48 per tank, it had dropped to about 34, so I knew it was running rich, and my first suspect was the O2 sensor going bad.

Long story short, I got to the rally and ordered a new O2 sensor to meet me there at the place I was staying. A couple of hours getting it installed, I did a TPS re-learn and everything was good again. Idle speed, no stalling and a return to 48mpg.

Got home and plugged in my GS-911 and saw some errors pointing to a history of lazy O2 sensor activity (the bad one). The new one was sweeping perfectly.

Contacted some friends on another BMWRT forum and they advised that it was the SeaFoam that was the culprit of ruining the O2. Contacted SeaFoam and of course, they didn't answer my inquiries.

Just relaying what I found with mine. So if you're new to the GS-911, check your O2 waveform.

 

[Omega Man]

FWIW, Seafoam is not a good idea. About a month ago, I was prepping my 2004 RT (same engine as your RS) to ride to the MOA National in VA. It has 132k on it and runs perfect. For the hell of it, I wanted to drop a can of Techron in it but couldn't find it at the Auto Parts store. So I got a can of SeaFoam, followed the directions and added it to the full tank.

About 100 miles into the ride, I noticed the bike would stall at idle as well as the idle had dropped to about 800 (normally around 1100). I continued on, but noticed at each fill up the mileage was dropping. Normally, around 46-48 per tank, it had dropped to about 34, so I knew it was running rich, and my first suspect was the O2 sensor going bad.

Long story short, I got to the rally and ordered a new O2 sensor to meet me there at the place I was staying. A couple of hours getting it installed, I did a TPS re-learn and everything was good again. Idle speed, no stalling and a return to 48mpg.

Got home and plugged in my GS-911 and saw some errors pointing to a history of lazy O2 sensor activity (the bad one). The new one was sweeping perfectly.

Contacted some friends on another BMWRT forum and they advised that it was the SeaFoam that was the culprit of ruining the O2. Contacted SeaFoam and of course, they didn't answer my inquiries.

Just relaying what I found with mine. So if you're new to the GS-911, check your O2 waveform.

I have never heard of Sea Foam causing any problems……so I went looking for “negative effects of Sea Foam” and found this excerpt-

3. It May Kill The O2 Sensor

Let’s say for instance that your O2 sensor is on the verge of failing. It’s been said that Seafoam might accelerate it. At this point, you’re better off getting the sensor itself replaced.

What happens when an O2 sensor is on the fritz? Your engine may be feeling a little rough. Plus, it may have the worst timing in terms of detecting issues such as overheating, clogging, and so on.

But that doesn’t end there. An O2 sensor failure will also lead to a whole slew of vehicle problems. We’re talking bad fuel mileage, your emission levels will suffer, and so much more. Before you know it, that “Check Engine” light might kick on and you’ll end up sitting in your driveway figuring out what’s going on.

For your consideration- if your O2 sensor had 132K on it, I believe you did great on that kind of life for the sensor.

If you are “dropping a can” at a time in your tank, especially if it isn’t an attempt to solve a problem, this is a severe over treatment. Under normal circumstances, I don’t think a “can” would hurt anything but if a sensor was on the edge of failing, a “can” could surely finish it off.

OM

 

[MOONDOG59]

I pulled the O2 sensor and nothing remarkable seen. Some carbon build up which I removed with a brass brush. Is there any way to "ohm" out the sensor?

 

[pauls1150]

The resistance of an O2 sensor changes with temperature (pretty low at "ambient"), so that's really not a great indication.

Reinstall it (with a little copper-based anti-seize and maybe a new crush washer), fire up the bike, and measure the voltage swing that it produces on the signal wire. By using a voltmeter (analog is good for this, digital doesn't show "swing" very well) with the scale set to 1 volt, the voltage will fluctuate between 200 and 800 millivolts or .2 to .8 volts on your meter. If the sensor’s reading is stalled in position, or switches abnormally high or low, your sensor has failed.

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?104018-Fuel-Injection-Cleaner-Use has additional info on fuel additives...

 

[alke46]

The resistance of an O2 sensor changes with temperature (pretty low at "ambient"), so that's really not a great indication.

Reinstall it (with a little copper-based anti-seize and maybe a new crush washer), fire up the bike, and measure the voltage swing that it produces on the signal wire. By using a voltmeter (analog is good for this, digital doesn't show "swing" very well) with the scale set to 1 volt, the voltage will fluctuate between 200 and 800 millivolts or .2 to .8 volts on your meter. If the sensor’s reading is stalled in position, or switches abnormally high or low, your sensor has failed.

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?104018-Fuel-Injection-Cleaner-Use has additional info on fuel additives...

This caught my eye. I have a suspect O2 sensor. Before I replace it where is the signal wire that I should measure the voltage located?

 

[pauls1150]

The sensor has 4 wires:

Pin 1, green & white, and Pin 2, green and brown, are the supply voltage for the sensor's internal heater.
I assume that you should see +12 volts there all the time ... I've never had to measure there.

Pin 3 has a yellow wire, and Pin 4 has a black wire - This is the Lambda signal that gets sent directly to the computer.

 

[MOONDOG59]

So if I plug sensor back in including connector, how do a measure voltage swing on the connector? Can apply heat to sensor with heat gun and measure the swing on the connector? Or does it need 12v from the bike?

 

[alke46]

The sensor has 4 wires:

Pin 1, green & white, and Pin 2, green and brown, are the supply voltage for the sensor's internal heater.
I assume that you should see +12 volts there all the time ... I've never had to measure there.

Pin 3 has a yellow wire, and Pin 4 has a black wire - This is the Lambda signal that gets sent directly to the computer.

So where exactly are these pins located? Do they require the tank be removed? I'm just not seeing it.

 

[Omega Man]

How old is the sensor?

OM

 

[alke46]

The sensor has 4 wires:

Pin 1, green & white, and Pin 2, green and brown, are the supply voltage for the sensor's internal heater.
I assume that you should see +12 volts there all the time ... I've never had to measure there.

Pin 3 has a yellow wire, and Pin 4 has a black wire - This is the Lambda signal that gets sent directly to the computer.

I'm sorry if this is redundancy but where the heck are these pins located?
Do I need to remove the tank to access the pins? By following the wiring from the sensor in the exhaust pipe it appears to go somewhere under the tank. Am I on the right trail here or what?

 

[m_stock10506]

I'm sorry if this is redundancy but where the heck are these pins located?
Do I need to remove the tank to access the pins? By following the wiring from the sensor in the exhaust pipe it appears to go somewhere under the tank. Am I on the right trail here or what?

The connector end of the O2 sensor is under the gas tank right side.

 

[pauls1150]

YES it needs the 12 volts to heat it up, regardless of whether you're riding it or sitting in the garage.
On some models, the connector can be a PITA to find and open up; it may be easier to peel back the harness's sheath down near the sensor and use pins to tap into the wires. (YES everything needs to be Connected to do this test...)

 

[MOONDOG59]

Ok, got it. Thanks.

 

[MOONDOG59]

Ok, changed out the O2 sensor and no improvement.

I am at the end of my rope.

I need to find a local independent tech here in Georgia for this now. The only thing I haven't touch yet are the throttle bodies and have the injectors soaking in seafoam now.

Are the throttle bodies known for blowing seals or having damaged seals?

 

[Omega Man]

Brand new O2 sensor?
Sometimes there is a “learning” period when changing a O2 sensor.
OM

 

[MOONDOG59]

a fellow rider mentioned that. How long a "learn"? After the bike cooled off to ambient temps, I tried starting it again and got nothing but farts and pops.

 

[m_stock10506]

Ok, changed out the O2 sensor and no improvement.

I am at the end of my rope.

I need to find a local independent tech here in Georgia for this now. The only thing I haven't touch yet are the throttle bodies and have the injectors soaking in seafoam now.

Are the throttle bodies known for blowing seals or having damaged seals?

The throttle bodies will wear the shaft for the throttle butterfly which will cause an air leak. At 47k miles that’s very unlikely, and the symptoms would not be as severe as you described. You can check for air leaks by spraying brake cleaner or throttle body cleaner around the throttle bodies and air tubes while the bike is idling, if you can get it to idle.

Soaking the injectors won’t do much. You have to hook up a can of carb/throttle cleaner into the TB fuel inlet, and a 9 volt battery to the electrical connectors. Activate the injector while pressing the cleaner aerosol button and cleaner will be pumped through the injector. There are videos that show that.

 

[MOONDOG59]

The throttle bodies will wear the shaft for the throttle butterfly which will cause an air leak. At 47k miles that’s very unlikely, and the symptoms would not be as severe as you described. You can check for air leaks by spraying brake cleaner or throttle body cleaner around the throttle bodies and air tubes while the bike is idling, if you can get it to idle.

Soaking the injectors won’t do much. You have to hook up a can of carb/throttle cleaner into the TB fuel inlet, and a 9 volt battery to the electrical connectors. Activate the injector while pressing the cleaner aerosol button and cleaner will be pumped through the injector. There are videos that show that.

I have a "spare" pair of injectors I am going to send out for cleaning and flow check them and then try those.

 

[kbasa]

Check and make sure a rock hasn't bounced up and wedged itself against one of the throttle cables. We had that happen a couple times.

 

[dieselyoda]

Tough to do but back in the day, lights out, total dark, sprayed the ignition system with water to see if there was a light show.