1997 R1100RT Gremlin - what to do....?

[rjljr]

Purchased 12/2013 with @ 75k miles running well. First BMW (bike, have had 325 ie). New toy excitement, new tires, new battery, 12k service at dealership where it was originally sold. All good. Trip out east, Poconos, Delaware Water Gap, New Jersey.....running well, bonding, having fun.
August 2014, clutch slipping, adjustment to no avail. Dealership service new clutch, cost approaching value of the bike but....you know, that bonding mentioned earlier, liked the bike, had the money.....new clutch, dealer installed.
Shut down 4 times on the turnpike on the way home, finally towed. Wrecker pulled out of the drive, yes, fired right up.
Trailered back to dealer. No fault can be found, will not fail. They recommend replacing ECU, we do.
Drive home, no event yay!
400 miles later same thing....stops, engine turns, no ignition. Trailer it in. No fault, will not fail.
Recommend replacing Hall Sensor, we do.
Dealership calls, ready to go. Go to pick it up, won't start. Come'on!?
Service manager says he's done with it, no charge for jnstalling HES. Load it on trailer, stop for lunch and, just for the heck of it, bump the starter as it sits ip there on the trailer and, yep, varoom, starts right up.
Well now.....
I am imagining that ALL of this maybe related to failing wire, pinched, pulled, and seated somewhere? Maybe during clutch repair? Maybe not, doesn't really matter now. But, IF I could find the culprit, I like the bike (remember the bonding thing?)
Service manager's final answer is to dump it, full disclosure.
I'm feeling why not spend the time going through wiring harness first??

Any collective wisdom/experience to share on this subject? Had I listened to the voice of reason (and girlfriend) I would have offed it at the clutch.

Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.
Rick

 

[paul_f]

My 98 occasionally exhibits this problem, starting last fall and continuing this spring. Bike worked fine when taken to dealer. No solutions or suggestions given. Returning home from the Laurel Highland Rally in June, twice when deploying the side stand, the engine continued to run. Put the problem down to an erratic side stand switch.

 

[dieselyoda]

Gremlins, ghosts, the ever elusive night shift and of course, minions.

I like the minions................................

You have spent a lot of money and not once have you confirmed the basics have been taken care of. It may sound simple but in my shop, and we repair very expensive iron and we have those issues, check the grounds and then again and then make sure. Pull every fuse, check them for corrosion, toss as required and put them back in. Make damn sure the battery is in good condition and make damn sure the connections are free of corrosion and are tight.

If my guys come back and say all is good, I send them back to check filters, fluid levels and recheck the grounds. You could be facing an awesome troubleshooting nightmare and that does happen but if you don't take care of the basics, all the coding plug and oil type recommendations are a waste of time.

The real tragedy from my stand point as a service provider, you bring your front end loader to me for the same complaint, I have two choices: Keep replacing parts until the problem goes away. Or put the labor in to determine the exact cause which could be very simple.

Part Changing: $$$$.$$ may never know the real cause.
Trouble Shooting $???.?? and could find the problem in an hour or maybe ten.

Vegas gives better odds than a problem like this.

 

[rjljr]

Reply

Thanks to both Paul_F & dieselyoda.

Dieselyoda, I have the same sense that the service shop didn't go the extra mile or do "due diligence" in their diagnostics. I'm considering the infamous "nasty letter" to the dealership but not sure if it will do any good other than stir things up.

In the mean time, I believe I will pop off the covers and start......looking! Not much else left to do but give up on it. It would be sump'n if it is an easy spot. I like the bike. I will post any update.

Thanks again.

 

[willhawks]

Why not call BMW Motorad...

And ask for a technical advisor. It will cost nothing and may lead to a real fix. While I would always attempt to stay on good terms with the dealer, the fact is that you bought the bike there and I suspect that something went amiss during the mechanical work. That having been said, most dealers can be very friendly when they know that the factory is looking over things. Having known a BMW Representative personally, I am aware that if a dealer becomes belligerant with a customer, it can affect their ability to get the machinery that they want when it is time for allocations of the new models; the dealer knows that too.

Best,


Will

 

[dieselyoda]

And ask for a technical advisor. It will cost nothing and may lead to a real fix. While I would always attempt to stay on good terms with the dealer, the fact is that you bought the bike there and I suspect that something went amiss during the mechanical work. That having been said, most dealers can be very friendly when they know that the factory is looking over things. Having known a BMW Representative personally, I am aware that if a dealer becomes belligerant with a customer, it can affect their ability to get the machinery that they want when it is time for allocations of the new models; the dealer knows that too.

Best,


Will

As a dealer, albeit, heavy equipment, the factory cares more about my warranty submissions then the do the customer, any customer. Just saying is all.
If I have a customer that thinks my guys were less than as good as they can be, I will eat the labor on the comeback. It's called community service in my industry.
The factory wants me to sell PARTS and not service. Hence, a lot of service managers will buckle to the pressure to get them off their backs. Throw parts at it until its fixed is the game these days.
Gremlins are the worst. I can't count the number of serious issues in the last month on machines that came down to very little in parts and ton of pain from my mechanics looking. Some days, I tell my guys to leave it alone, go fix something you can fix, go home, try again the next day. Customer does not want to hear his machine is sitting with nobody working on it and telling him, we, the experts, are frustrated will usually get you a belligerent customer.

You have to, must, confirm that the simple things are good and starting at grounds is always a good start.

 

[Kutter]

Throw parts until its fixed

They threw a $700 hall effect (with installation - 3 hrs) at mine first and then fixed it with a $150 coil. I'm sure I'll drop $900 to a $1000 when I pick it up later this week. Tough to make me think it needed the HES.

 

[ragtoplvr]

I do not know how handy you are with tools. There is a LOT of information.

Random cutouts are often the kick stand safety switch.

It is common in bikes to have the wires to the handlebars break. Those are nasty intermittents.

Is there a BMW club near you, some of the folks around here are excellent mechanics and enjoy helping folks

Rod

 

[rjljr]

Update on the "situation" - there is hope!!

I thought that I would take a moment to update this thread to bring all concerned up to date.

Lo and behold, the BMW Service Center Service Manager called yesterday and left a voicemail (I was unable to pick up) stating that he and his shop techs had a chance to discuss the situation and had reconsidered there stance and offered to come and pick the bike up and do more to identify the problem (i.e. check harnesses, proper grounding - many of the things that members of this group have been suggesting).

How do you like that? There IS STILL HOPE that there ARE people who ARE concerned of "doing the right thing"!! It is downright uplifting.....

I will post further with the outcome and MANY thanks for all of the interest and advice shown by the group to date.

Good day - rjljr.

 

[dieselyoda]

When all is said a done and you are happy, a return visit with a couple boxes of donuts goes a long way.

 

[rjljr]

The "latest"....

Since a number of members have taken a gander of this thread, I thought that I would update so that we can all share the final outcome.

The dealership DID send out their truck to my house and retrieved the motorcycle on Saturday, the 15th.

I am anxious to see if they are able to spot the culprit. To make it all the more interesting, the bike has started EACH time a bumped the starter since the day it would not start at the dealership. I even took it for a little ride the morning they were coming (up a big hill so I could coast it closer to home if failed) and, all good.

Can't wait to get it back.

RJLJR

 

[wkuwiz]

And????

(picture us munching popcorn waiting)...

 

[brianfisk]

check

please check you re;lays under the seat soft fingers 1 of them may reseat and everything will worl fine! happend to me 2x

Brian

Since a number of members have taken a gander of this thread, I thought that I would update so that we can all share the final outcome.

The dealership DID send out their truck to my house and retrieved the motorcycle on Saturday, the 15th.

I am anxious to see if they are able to spot the culprit. To make it all the more interesting, the bike has started EACH time a bumped the starter since the day it would not start at the dealership. I even took it for a little ride the morning they were coming (up a big hill so I could coast it closer to home if failed) and, all good.

Can't wait to get it back.

RJLJR

 

[ninja]

Intermittent fault

A fairly common fault... That can seem completely random is a broken wire in the harness in front of the steering head... The harness is tightly secured, but flexes with steering... Often, one of the wires is broken internally, and looks fine. Pretty easy fix once found.

 

[omega man]

When all is said a done and you are happy, a return visit with a couple boxes of donuts goes a long way.

Boy, this is a courtesy that is missed all too regular.
for bringing it up.
OM

 

[gsaddict]

They threw a $700 hall effect (with installation - 3 hrs) at mine first and then fixed it with a $150 coil. I'm sure I'll drop $900 to a $1000 when I pick it up later this week. Tough to make me think it needed the HES.

In defense - All Hall sensor assemblies with the original wiring will fail.
Usually at the most inopportune time.
I have fixed many of them and everyone I do has the crumbling insulation. If dry they may continue to run for quite a while but introduce some water vapour and you will be calling a towtruck.

Having the new updated unit is a good thing.

Ask for the old unit back and I can rewire yours for you for a spare or you can sell on the flea market.
PM me if you are interested.

 

[rjljr]

The Latest....

BMW did the pickup on the 15th. Of August. I haven't heard back but I think that I'll need to ping them to see where we stand. I've been hoping that no news is good news but....
Kind of anxiously waiting. Loads of great advice and would like to put some of it to good use.
More to come...
Reading through the thread, I see i didn't mention that the starter would engage and tbe engine would crank but not fire. I don't believe you'd get it turning over with faulty sidestand switch, would you? (Same for some of the other wiring refernces.)

 

[rjljr]

Here's the latest.....

I finally heard back from the BMW Dealership.

They tell me that they had the bike apart, checked ALL their work that might have "jiggled" anything loose,as well as checked grounds, wiring, etc, where accessible and.....nada.
We are back where we started from.
I believe that I will pick the bike up, have someone follow me back (@ 80 miles) with a trailer, just in case, and......wait for it to happen - again (or not!?).

If (when) it does, I guess it will be a garaged winter of wiring harness exploratory or for sale sign!!
Missed a great summer on this bike. I have a fall back ride (Yamaha - Cruise) but...only good for milk runs.

If there is anyone with anything do add, please do!

Much obliged.
RJLJR

 

[arthurdent]

Problem has every hallmark of a bad ground on something. HES, ignition harness, fuel pump?

my mom had a car that exhibited exactly the problems and "no fault found" at dealer to the tune of many thousands of 1988 dollars. One day I got so fed up I followed the wire from the fuel pump to the back seat. pulled the back seat and found the fuel pump ground wire floppy in its mount. Spare bolt/nut and problem went away forever. harrumph!

Best advice ever - intermittent DOA or stop running is always a bad ground; somewhere

 

[rocketmanli]

What state do you live in? If you're in the Northeast, I'd suggest reaching out to Chris Harris at Team Monkey, in Manchester, NH.
Here's a link to his FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/Teammonkeytwins

I think in his hands you're bike would be fixed the first time around. Might be worth trailering it up there and letting him have a shot at it.